[rawrster]

I fail to see how Stax is void of diminishing returns esp the SR009. That headphone to me is the definition of diminishing returns even though it is a very good headphone. An 8k or so investment is 8k no matter how you put it.
 
I've always considered the best value in this game to be the $300 or so price range putting you at the high end  headphones of yesterday such as the DT880/HD6x0/K701 price range among others. I think for most this shouldn't be a surprise as diminishing returns applies to just about every hobby I can think of.

 

[StefanJK]

I just want to know the dac and amp used by the OP.  I don't get why this is a secret.  

 

[nw130d]

Quote:

  .... as none humanly opinionated as possible.  ROFL , try again 

.
 
Anyone in the market for a $1500 headphone will do a little bit of research before shelling out that much money and I guess they are mature enough to decide how to spend their money and to judge what value they get in return. If ROI is not good enough, you can usually sent it back. If you google for HD800 reviews or just look at the amazon reviews (non professional, of course) you will quickly realize that the majority of HD800 buyers does actually like the phones. You are clearly in the minority.
 
Why of all things are you so annoyed about the HD800 that you go on a mission to warn others about the diminishing return factor?
A high end bike, or even a couple of them are a perfect example of the exact same diminishing returns effect but you are obviously enjoying it - me too btw 

.
If you don't like the phones that's perfectly OK with everybody but trying to warn people about a purchase that you deem a bad value ?
Get on the bike and let off some steam 

.
You'll feel better afterwards 

 
I could spit out a bunch of 0 and 1s but how does that have any meaning. Everything taken out of the "hole" context can skew the original idea, take it in as the bigger picture.
 
Hence why I stated "lack of better word" warn... perhaps "inform" is a better word to use. Either way I for one did much research along with what I read before. I haven't came across any fad train strong as the HD800. For me this purchase is a classic case of over expectation and under delivered, as case with a good movie. Does HD800 (movie) suck? No by no means they do. But do I feel many people just want to be part of a group aka the HD800 fan club, ABSOLUTELY! I am the guy trying to warn people have realistic expectation for this movie. Do I actually recommend the HD800? That is completely missing the point...
 
PS there is snow on the ground, I can't bike! That is the hole point or I wouldn't be sitting here listening to music lol

 

[dreamwhisper]

~deleted

 

[nw130d]

  ... I knew the weight of this thread would fall very quickly into a combination of "you're not listening right" and "you're not driving them with the right gear"...

 
 

  I just want to know the dac and amp used by the OP.  I don't get why this is a secret.  

 
Hence why I don't want to provide the information 

 

[StefanJK]

 
... I knew the weight of this thread would fall very quickly into a combination of "you're not listening right" and "you're not driving them with the right gear"...
 
Hence why I don't want to provide the information 

That makes no sense to (to me).  I just want the relevant information.  I don't want to argue about it.  [Snide analogy suppressed.]  You're demanding too much trust in your judgement without putting out the facts that are customary (for a reason).   Seems weird to me...it's not like you didn't write a big original post and didn't follow up.  You don't need to engage on  "you're not driving them with the right gear".  Not providing basic context looks like (unintentional but de facto) trolling (to me).  
 
Update: I'm totally happy with attacks on the HD800 (or other equipment).  I just want to know context.  [BTW just listening to 'Everything but the Girl' and for that sort of thing I can't tell much of a difference between the HD650 and HD800 either.]

 

[Maus]

   
 
 
Hence why I don't want to provide the information 

Well what else do you want us to say if you don't give us any information at all then? Even the mighty SR009 would sound unimpressive if you pair with a low-end amplifier.
 
Does it mean then that SR009 is not that much better SRS-2170 and doesn't justify it's price tag?
 
You can't evaluate a headphone in a vacuum, separate from the amplifier and DAC.
Since you mentioned headfonia, let me quote what they say about the HD800:

As you start to move down the ladder from a great system to good systems, so will you lessen the sparkle of the HD800. Driven single ended from the Grace M902 amplifier on the same CEC source, for example, you start to feel that the star that was shining so brightly on the previous system is now starting to lose its light.

 

[nw130d]

  If you start questioning, whether it's 'worth it', then this journey up a quite (possibly endless) high-end mountain might not suit you. 
And you might have more fun at mid-fi base camp. Same great view of the surrounding counryside, without the adrenalin-seeking thrill of 
low oxygen concentration, frigid temperatures, and condescending sherpas.

There's some people that are acclimatised to this environment, and even if they don't appreciate all of a transducer's qualities, they still might have the patience or insight to keep pursuing building a system around.
But don't be misled, this pursuit is either the sum of all of your previous experiences in hi-fi sound, or an exercise in insanity.

Or maybe you want to try something different, for example, rock climbing with planar magnetic headphones. lol

EDIT: That being said, I'm sure there are some cheaper high-end options. 

I am for sure questioning the "worth", but never been the person to experience something half assed. So count me for oxygen deprivation, frigid temperatures, and condescending sherpas... I just might not be a happy camper at the top lol, "yes, I paid to be this miserable" I can say... And if I am indeed somewhere near the top already with the HD800 I can say it is time for me to head back down.

 

[dreamwhisper]

Lol.

I deleted that because it makes the hobby sound masochistic.
Maybe it's not the best analogy because ideally it really should be about having fun and not getting emotionally invested.
A sense of humour is pretty important. 

But anyway if you're enjoying the analogy that's awesome. I just like chatting with you because your canadian hehe.

 

[georgep]

Please, head back down.

I vote for "most useless thread of the month".

As an aside, had the HD800, sold them long ago. Great headphone and quite a step up from my hd650. But a step that is greater to some than it is to others.

 

[nw130d]

 
Well what else do you want us to say if you don't give us any information at all then? Even the mighty SR009 would sound unimpressive if you pair with a low-end amplifier.
 
Does it mean then that SR009 is not that much better SRS-2170 and doesn't justify it's price tag?
 
You can't evaluate a headphone in a vacuum, separate from the amplifier and DAC.
Since you mentioned headfonia, let me quote what they say about the HD800:

 
(I am trying to word this so it doesn't sound offensive, if it still does I am truly not trying to do so) I actually am not looking for any information or agreeable (same perspective) on how I am driving the HD800. There is endless information on that... how ever others are welcome to chime in on their own thoughts about the value of HD800 or headphones alike. As StefanJK just did
Quote:

Update: I'm totally happy with attacks on the HD800 (or other equipment).  I just want to know context.  [BTW just listening to 'Everything but the Girl' and for that sort of thing I can't tell much of a difference between the HD650 and HD800 either.]

 
 
Cool thanks for reading the hole thing before chiming in. With that (see quote below) Headfonia did also approve the amp I am using with HD800 is a good paring. As in regards to scaling, I do have the luck of having 2 good sized audio stores with dedicated headphone sections. Over the holiday break I can perhaps incline them to lend me a HDVD800 and or DAC to pair up with my HD800. To see if HD800 can be technically superior yet with more scaling.
Quote:

As you start to move down the ladder from a great system to good systems, so will you lessen the sparkle of the HD800. Driven single ended from the Grace M902 amplifier on the same CEC source, for example, you start to feel that the star that was shining so brightly on the previous system is now starting to lose its light.

 

[Golliwog]

Over the holiday break I can perhaps incline them to lend me a HDVD800 and or DAC to pair up with my HD800. To see if HD800 can be technically superior yet with more scaling.

 
No offense intended my friend but if you're scaling up to a HDVD800 from your current source then you simply aren't close to doing the HD800s justice. Personally I don't even think their own amp is a particularly good match. While it may seem silly that an expensive piece of equipment cannot perform well on its own its the same over most hobbies. If you can in any way relate to photography - theres no point having a $5k body with a cheap lens or printing a stunning image on low quality paper from an uncalibrated printer. The HD800 more than any other headphone goes from distinctly average to stunning as you upgrade your chain. Its well documented online and perhaps wasn't the correct purchase for you. Having recently heard them through a Chord Hugo + WA5 / Liquid Glass setup - i can tell you they have the ability to sound otherworldly.

 

[soulorc]

Interesting thread, although I am a loyal follower of HD800 and has made up my mind to buy one when I have enough money. Subscribed.

 

[nw130d]

   
No offense intended my friend but if you're scaling up to a HDVD800 from your current source then you simply aren't close to doing the HD800s justice. Personally I don't even think their own amp is a particularly good match. While it may seem silly that an expensive piece of equipment cannot perform well on its own its the same over most hobbies. If you can in any way relate to photography - theres no point having a $5k body with a cheap lens or printing a stunning image on low quality paper from an uncalibrated printer. The HD800 more than any other headphone goes from distinctly average to stunning as you upgrade your chain. Its well documented online and perhaps wasn't the correct purchase for you. Having recently heard them through a Chord Hugo + WA5 / Liquid Glass setup - i can tell you they have the ability to sound otherworldly.

 
Thanks for that, I have heard the HD800 with the HDVD800 but only in the showroom (good or bad) is just what I thought to be the logical retry. As Sennhesier themselves thought is the appropriate match for their headphones. That and off top of my head, I know both stores carry them.
 
Bringing up an old point here... but scaling up the HD800 with a CH+WA5, is the HD800 great or is Chord Hugo + WA5 great? As I am sure set up would make the T1 or HD6## sound better as well... Really do wish I can listen to that set up and see your point of HD800 scaling "more than any other headphone".
 
As for the camera analogy, I am firm believer it is the opposite, lens (headphone) makes for a greater difference than the body(DAC/amp). Such the case with floor speakers. Also just not ready to spend a fraction of a car payment on one audio gear component.
 
 
 
Do feel like this thread has gone full circle (for my self) and I have learned and addressed points I have glanced over in the OP. Anymore I am just repeating my self and tiresome also wast of space... But as always others are welcome to add their own thoughts about the value of HD800 and etc headphones

 

[Golliwog]

Bringing up an old point here... but scaling up the HD800 with a CH+WA5, is the HD800 great or is Chord Hugo + WA5 great? As I am sure set up would make the T1 or HD6## sound better as well... Really do wish I can listen to that set up and see your point of HD800 scaling "more than any other headphone".
 
As for the camera analogy, I am firm believer it is the opposite, lens (headphone) makes for a greater difference than the body(DAC/amp). Such the case with floor speakers. Also just not ready to spend a fraction of a car payment on one audio gear component.

Its never a waste of space my friend we're all learning here. The Huge / LG / WA5 are all great pieces of course and will make most headphones sing. Its more the case that I feel you really need a great dac and amp for the HD800s to shine. When properly driven they have a presence and soundstage that imo is only reached by the top electrostats. Just in case it interests you, i have recently backed both the LHLabs Geek Pulse DAC and Lambert tube amp on IndieGoGo as i am also not willing to spend 10k on my chain. Im hoping that they will make a good budget system for my 800s coming in at $650 + shipping for both. I'd recommend having a read about them on these forums.

As for the camera analogy i didn't mean for it to come across as each component having an equivalent but moreso just as a general reminder than in many hobbies your gear is only as good as the weakest link. Glass is definitely a far smarter investment than bodies although with the current rate of advancement in sensor technology (sony) and lower price points of stunning glass (sigma art series) i think the lines are getting blurred.