Holo Audio Spring R2R DAC

[incredulousity]

Hardware demand is the issue. Spring/May can do it just fine.

 

[BrainSalat]

Question, I don't see a lot of people doing DSD1024 HQPlayer upscaling on this DAC even though it should support it. Is it so demanding nobody has the hardware for it right now, or is there some other reason DSD512 is preferred?

I personally almost stopped using HQPlayer after I got the Spring3. The NOS mode was good enough. I sometimes try it again but the difference is so marginal that at least for me is not worth the extra overhead on my system. My previous DAC's took more advantage of the HQPlayer, but not the Spring3.

I had the chance to compare side by side the Spring3 against the RME-ADI2, Chord TT2. The TT2 and Spring3 are in a upper league compared the ADI2 and while the TT2 and Sprint3 share several qualities like resolution, soundstage, layering, etc... on DSD playback the Spring3 was clearly superior to me ears. Both of these DACs are great but I decided for the Spring3 because it sounded more "analog", the superior DSD implementation and IMHO for the price difference you could get a better SS amp than the one built-in in the TT2.

 

[Davidv100]

I personally almost stopped using HQPlayer after I got the Spring3. The NOS mode was good enough. I sometimes try it again but the difference is so marginal that at least for me is not worth the extra overhead on my system. My previous DAC's took more advantage of the HQPlayer, but not the Spring3.

I had the chance to compare side by side the Spring3 against the RME-ADI2, Chord TT2. The TT2 and Spring3 are in a upper league compared the ADI2 and while the TT2 and Sprint3 share several qualities like resolution, soundstage, layering, etc... on DSD playback the Spring3 was clearly superior to me ears. Both of these DACs are great but I decided for the Spring3 because it sounded more "analog", the superior DSD implementation and IMHO for the price difference you could get a better SS amp than the one built-in in the TT2.

I like it when people admit that sometimes less is more, instead of pushing for a rocket lab to entertain your ears.

 

[devilboy]

I'll soon be joining the Holo club. My heavy use of HQPlayer and finally being able to hear DSD upscaling on a direct-DSD enabled AKM DAC led me to purchase the Spring 3 KTE today. I've always been really partial to Chord DACs, but really looking forward to hearing my first R2R DAC.

Question, I don't see a lot of people doing DSD1024 HQPlayer upscaling on this DAC even though it should support it. Is it so demanding nobody has the hardware for it right now, or is there some other reason DSD512 is preferred?

But if I understand correctly, if you feed the Holo an upsampled DSD signal, you will use the other DAC chip in the Spring 3 KTE, not the R2R.

 

[BrainSalat]

But if I understand correctly, if you feed the Holo an upsampled DSD signal, you will use the other DAC chip in the Spring 3 KTE, not the R2R.

That's true, thanks for bringing it up . The Spring3 uses a different circuit path for DSD data, not the R2R resistor ladder (because there are other R2R DACs that fist convert to PCM to then use the R2R resistor ladder).
So about my previous comments I would need to precise that my experiments with Spring3+HQPlayer were only done with PCM data, so you may get different results using the HQPlayer to upsample DSD data. I will give it a try.

 

[BrainSalat]

I like it when people admit that sometimes less is more, instead of pushing for a rocket lab to entertain your ears.

I don't think I quite meant that. If there would be a good reason to use the rocket lab I will do it, It's just that in this specific case for me is not wort it or not needed.
In the search of music reproduction perfection I am open to anything and I have tried already many things (even the craziest ones). Sometimes you success, sometimes not, but I had quite some fun and learned a lot in the meantime.

The longer explanation is that oversampling is part of the algorithmic steps of Delta-Sigma DACs (but not from R2R DACs) and the HQPlayer, by software, can do that task better than most hardware implementations. Is not that you could not do the same by hardware, but high quality oversampling filters require a lot of computational processing and large data buffers which would make hardware implementation overkill and expensive (MScaler for example). So when using the HQPlayer, you are bypassing DACs built-in oversampling module by software implementation of state of the art oversampling filters, of course at the cost of loading your PC CPUs/GPUs (not necessarily a problem for high performance machines)

On the other hand R2R don't require oversampling, is not part of their digital to analog conversion algorithm, so I don't even understand why is even offered by some DACs (including the previous Spring2), maybe to have the chance of better passband filters (sharper)??. So to me, using oversampling with R2R DACs is an optional artificial step with uncertain outcome, it sounds different but better?? I wouldn't dare to say. You see, HoloAudio removed it from Spring3 and in any case, if you want it, the HQPlayer can do it and better.

 

[Davidv100]

I don't think I quite meant that. If there would be a good reason to use the rocket lab I will do it, It's just that in this specific case for me is not wort it or not needed.
In the search of music reproduction perfection I am open to anything and I have tried already many things (even the craziest ones). Sometimes you success, sometimes not, but I had quite some fun and learned a lot in the meantime.

The longer explanation is that oversampling is part of the algorithmic steps of Delta-Sigma DACs (but not from R2R DACs) and the HQPlayer, by software, can do that task better than most hardware implementations. Is not that you could not do the same by hardware, but high quality oversampling filters require a lot of computational processing and large data buffers which would make hardware implementation overkill and expensive (MScaler for example). So when using the HQPlayer, you are bypassing DACs built-in oversampling module by software implementation of state of the art oversampling filters, of course at the cost of loading your PC CPUs/GPUs (not necessarily a problem for high performance machines)

On the other hand R2R don't require oversampling, is not part of their digital to analog conversion algorithm, so I don't even understand why is even offered by some DACs (including the previous Spring2), maybe to have the chance of better passband filters (sharper)??. So to me, using oversampling with R2R DACs is an optional artificial step with uncertain outcome, it sounds different but better?? I wouldn't dare to say. You see, HoloAudio removed it from Spring3 and in any case, if you want it, the HQPlayer can do it and better.

Understood.
Thank you very much for taking the time to write this comprehensive explanation, with the clear split between pcm vs dsd.
Much appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[briantrinh86]

the price difference you could get a better SS amp than the one built-in in the TT2.

Agreed. Mainly used it as a dac before. Tt2 amp is ok not great even though it has a ton of power to drive most of headphones easily.

 

[bobski32]

When I first got the spring 3, I tried HQplayer and didn't like it. I thought it sounded overly smooth. NOS just sounded better. To be honest though, I really didn't know what I was doing with HQp and I can't even remember what filters I was using.

Over the next several months of using the trial, I kept trying out HQ player, and started to have an idea of what filters I liked. Getting to the point where, I was using the upsampling half the time, and NOS the other half.

Once again, because there are so many combinations to use in HQ player, it really does take a while to go through a lot of them and see which ones you like. Also admittedly, there might be something to getting used to The sound of upsampled DSD.... I don't deny that that is a potential factor.

Now I'm at the point, where I've found my favorite settings and honestly.... It sounds much better using HQ player on everything. And because I was using it all the time, I decided it was worth it to purchase it.

Admittedly though, I had to upgrade my PC quite a bit.... Just to be able to play DSD 512 with the filters I liked.

 

[Chronos]

Anyone know if I can connect my Cayin N8ii DAP to use as a streamer to Spring 3 or May? Any issues with it?

 

[incredulousity]

Will it do digital out by USB?

 

[NoNameNPC]

If I feed Holo Spring III with DSD, DAC work in NOS mode?

 

[borkenarrou]

If I feed Holo Spring III with DSD, DAC work in NOS mode?

Spring 3 (all levels) is always NOS whether DSD or PCM, for oversampling you need to do it externally via software (HQPlayer) or hardware (Chord Mscaler).

 

[NoNameNPC]

Spring 3 (all levels) is always NOS whether DSD or PCM, for oversampling you need to do it externally via software (HQPlayer) or hardware (Chord Mscaler).

Thx, what CPU need for DSD1024, with i3-12100F, I can only 512. i7-12700KF enough?

 

[borkenarrou]

Sorry not sure about that, but I am sure it will require a powerful current gen CPU, I mostly use NOS but sometime use PCM oversampling on HQPlayer on my Ryzen 5600G mini PC and it takes about 50% to 60% CPU, tried DSD once it iirc almost freezed my PC.