[bmichels]

any MQA or ROON compatibility in the near future for this DAC ? 

 

[kazcou]

MQA is a streaming HQ file format.
Since this DAC do not have any streaming capability, I do not think you will ever see this technology in this DAC.
 
And if you really want to use MQA you need to look for a compatible player instead

 

[bmichels]

  MQA is a streaming HQ file format.
Since this DAC do not have any streaming capability, I do not think you will ever see this technology in this DAC.
 
And if you really want to use MQA you need to look for a compatible player instead

 
Well, an external music server/streamer can pass native MQA to the DAC for the DAC to decode it.

 

[ted_b]

 

 
I am willing to take the abuse.  Although I am not a headphone guy I am open to the expertise found on this great site.  So.......fire away.  What is it that you didn't like about my review?  I am willing to respond and add to it, if possible. 

 

[phonyx]

I am willing to take the abuse.  Although I am not a headphone guy I am open to the expertise found on this great site.  So.......fire away.  What is it that you didn't like about my review?  I am willing to respond and add to it, if possible. 

Im not the only one who found it odd. You took many paragraphs to say very little in the way of real description of each mode and it's sound vs other well known and relatively popular DAC's, especially FOTM DAC's like Yggdrasil.

In the first paragraph you tell us things we already know about the DAC market. In the second you take 16 lines to tell us you were a lazy stoner in college and have continued some of those traits through to today warning us to henceforth to expect a non technical review.

You weren't kidding.

It just didn't really say anything much of value that's going to help someone differentiate between taking a risk on this DAC vs another DAC.

 

[Nada]

I read Ted's Holo review carefully and it took me a slow and careful read for me to understand all the info it carried. Like Ted's fine descriptors of the timbre and how the Holo Spring sounded with different popular contemporary digital feeds. I think anyone wanting a quick and dirty five star guide may be left  disappointed with Ted's approach but  i think that's inevitable with a nuanced and sophisticated review.
 
I  also think we can appreciate Ted's open disclosure and self-criticism about his background limits which I think is courageous. We all bring our preconceived filters along but for Ted to be insightful enough to be aware of his, rather then acting like hes a perfect objective expert is refreshing to say the least.
 
In the perfect world Id like to know along with others here how it sounds in direct comparison to a benchmark R2R DAC in the same price range eg the Yggy. I think that could put a reviewer in a difficult place in terms of hurting a product if it is popular, locally made by legendary designers but doesnt sound as good so I wont expect it but would like it.
 
The main issue Id like from reviewers is full disclosure of the kick backs that can be used to bias or "pay off" a reviewer to give a positive glowing endorsement. Incentives from  manufacturers or distributors range from the subtle    "you can keep the DAC if you like it" to more brazen offers of discounted gear, paid holidays to audio conferences and free flights. This is a hidden corruption which along with editorial advertising pressures explains the paucity of real criticism in most reviews.
 
Disclosure
I dont know Ted or write reviews.
 
PS Ted - thanks for offering to post me over your Holo DAC for an extended trial. Is ten years OK?

 

[phonyx]

I wasn't after a quick and dirty review. Just one like other professional reviewers write with a full description of the modes of operation (just using it purely in nos mode is very one dimensional) and comparison to other well reviewed DAC's we know.

Description, nuanced or not, is useless without comparison. We could make the same descriptions about the Metrum hex, pavane, audioGd master 7, chord 2Qute etc. They're all good, smooth, musical detailed DAC's. What's needed are accurate comparisons to other common DAC's so people know where this one fits in.

This DAC has nothing in the way of real reviews and real comparisons to known benchmarks. This latest review does nothing to change that.

 

[wuwhere]

This DAC looks interesting. I may get one but waiting for more comparisons/reviews. Also a comparison between Level2 and Level3.

 

[ppnuts]

Thanks, Nada, for speaking my mind. I, for one, am anxious to read in any review detailed comparisons between the subject equipment and competitors in the market. But as you said, this could likely be the result of perks going to the reviewer and some genuine and good products getting hurt. In the circumstances, I would prefer ted_b's way of presenting it - subtle, low profile; you'll get it if you read it carefully.
 
If you have doubts on any gear, just put it behind you mind. Don't waste time on it. I live in Hong Kong and have access to web information in Chinese. Having read what people in this part of the world said about the Holo Spring, I have ordered one (level 3 mod) and am expecting delivery towards the end of this month; a long waiting time, and my not having an opportunity to audition it. Rationale? An R2R dac at the price of a mid-market interconnect. From what I've gathered by reading peoples' comments between the lines, it's performance is expected to be compatible with dacs at about 2 to 3 times of its price. I can't ask for the moon, can I?

 

[kazcou]

The Holo Spring LV3 is more expansive than a Yggdrasil or Master 7.
Schiit is also offering some cheap multibit dac (249$ for Modi 2 multibit) !
And there is another chinese R2R DAC (Denafrips ARES), twice cheaper than Spring.

 

[ted_b]

Im not the only one who found it odd. You took many paragraphs to say very little in the way of real description of each mode and it's sound vs other well known and relatively popular DAC's, especially FOTM DAC's like Yggdrasil.

In the first paragraph you tell us things we already know about the DAC market. In the second you take 16 lines to tell us you were a lazy stoner in college and have continued some of those traits through to today warning us to henceforth to expect a non technical review.

You weren't kidding.

It just didn't really say anything much of value that's going to help someone differentiate between taking a risk on this DAC vs another DAC.

 
I appreciate the feedback.
 
First, I HAVE NOT HEARD THE YIGGY!  I shout because I mention that several times in the review followups, and stated unequivocally that I am open to someone sending me one...which someone is.  I posted that it ships on Monday..
 
Two, I simply added the somewhat tongue-in-cheek comments about my review style (at age 62) to give the reader a perspective, assuming he hasn't read any of my other reviews.  It's not a typical pro review (I get paid a stipend from CA, but not enough to be rounding error) in that I usually refer folks to others' technical write ups (although you could read about it technically from this thread so why do it; I assume you truly believe that what is on the back panel is truly on the back panel).
 
Third, not everyone knows about my perspective on the dac world, and I took maybe 50 seconds of reading to give it there. 
 
Fourth, I did not write this to be "A Guide to getting suboptimal sound from the Holo Audio Spring Kistune Edition dac" so I stated simply that the SRC modes are average at best and NOT at all the reason you would buy this dac.  The NOS mode is, and all comments written were from listeneing in mode.  I used the terms veiled and harsh to describe the SRC modes.  I thought that would be enough to run away from those modes.  Similarly, no one here spends listening comments on a set of cans who have ****ty cables included in the box.  They quickly add their favorite 3rd party ones and write about it from there.  What am I missing?
 
However,l I will take heat on the terseness of some of my comments, as I should have called this review "part one".  I fulfilled a promise to the distributor (who had no real demo units available at the time) to turn around the reveiw in time for RMAF (assuming the review was going to be positive, of course).   I plan on doing servral updates about HQPlayer's affect on upsampling, something that for normal stock dac chips becomes obvious in the first 30 seconds.  Also, the latest stable official Windows driver has helped a lot in that area, as changing rates as often as I normally do no longer crashes or freezes up.the system as it did with the eval driver.  I will go back to my microRendu signal path, too.

 

[ted_b]

  I read Ted's Holo review carefully and it took me a slow and careful read for me to understand all the info it carried. Like Ted's fine descriptors of the timbre and how the Holo Spring sounded with different popular contemporary digital feeds. I think anyone wanting a quick and dirty five star guide may be left  disappointed with Ted's approach but  i think that's inevitable with a nuanced and sophisticated review.
 
I  also think we can appreciate Ted's open disclosure and self-criticism about his background limits which I think is courageous. We all bring our preconceived filters along but for Ted to be insightful enough to be aware of his, rather then acting like hes a perfect objective expert is refreshing to say the least.
 
In the perfect world Id like to know along with others here how it sounds in direct comparison to a benchmark R2R DAC in the same price range eg the Yggy. I think that could put a reviewer in a difficult place in terms of hurting a product if it is popular, locally made by legendary designers but doesnt sound as good so I wont expect it but would like it.
 
The main issue Id like from reviewers is full disclosure of the kick backs that can be used to bias or "pay off" a reviewer to give a positive glowing endorsement. Incentives from  manufacturers or distributors range from the subtle    "you can keep the DAC if you like it" to more brazen offers of discounted gear, paid holidays to audio conferences and free flights. This is a hidden corruption which along with editorial advertising pressures explains the paucity of real criticism in most reviews.
 
Disclosure
I dont know Ted or write reviews.
 
PS Ted - thanks for offering to post me over your Holo DAC for an extended trial. Is ten years OK?
 
 

Thanks for the nice comments. 
 
Tim Connor (KitsuneHiFi) is just getting started, and I really like their new Holo Audio relationship with Jeff.  The dac retails at $2399 and because I had an early demo version I got it for $100 off (and did not pay shipping since it was already here).  No kickbacks, no nothin!!  I volunteer for Chris at CA (small stipend for writing reviews, would be used up at any 2 person decent California restaurant dinner) and volunteer my time at NativeDSD too (co-founder with Jared, Jonas and Tom).   I had a successful 35 year software sales and management career and retired early.  The stoner story was tongue-in-cheek and a small attempt at quickly telling my overall perspective on music vs audio. 

 

[phonyx]

   
I appreciate the feedback.
 
First, I HAVE NOT HEARD THE YIGGY!  I shout because I mention that several times in the review followups, and stated unequivocally that I am open to someone sending me one...which someone is.  I posted that it ships on Monday..
 
Two, I simply added the somewhat tongue-in-cheek comments about my review style (at age 62) to give the reader a perspective, assuming he hasn't read any of my other reviews.  It's not a typical pro review (I get paid a stipend from CA, but not enough to be rounding error) in that I usually refer folks to others' technical write ups (although you could read about it technically from this thread so why do it; I assume you truly believe that what is on the back panel is truly on the back panel).
 
Third, not everyone knows about my perspective on the dac world, and I took maybe 50 seconds of reading to give it there. 
 
Fourth, I did not write this to be "A Guide to getting suboptimal sound from the Holo Audio Spring Kistune Edition dac" so I stated simply that the SRC modes are average at best and NOT at all the reason you would buy this dac.  The NOS mode is, and all comments written were from listeneing in mode.  I used the terms veiled and harsh to describe the SRC modes.  I thought that would be enough to run away from those modes.  Similarly, no one here spends listening comments on a set of cans who have ****ty cables included in the box.  They quickly add their favorite 3rd party ones and write about it from there.  What am I missing?
 
However,l I will take heat on the terseness of some of my comments, as I should have called this review "part one".  I fulfilled a promise to the distributor (who had no real demo units available at the time) to turn around the reveiw in time for RMAF (assuming the review was going to be positive, of course).   I plan on doing servral updates about HQPlayer's affect on upsampling, something that for normal stock dac chips becomes obvious in the first 30 seconds.  Also, the latest stable official Windows driver has helped a lot in that area, as changing rates as often as I normally do no longer crashes or freezes up.the system as it did with the eval driver.  I will go back to my microRendu signal path, too.

 
 
I appreciate you responding. I guess what made it hard for me to grasp where you were at is I've not (knowingly) read any of your previous reviews. Say JDarko says he really likes a DAC, I have a decent idea of what that DAC will be in the ballpark of. The way my brain works, and many others do too, if via comparison to known landmarks.
 
My favourite reviews are those by ordinary folk with decent gear already who bring home a new item for a home audition and put it head to head against their gear. They don't have an agenda, they aren't remunerated for positive comments, they just straight up compare one item vs another, outlining through various tracks what one does best/worse and vice versa, and through this you get an idea of what they mean with their adjective and superlative choices, and where their preferences lie, almost removing the need to have read anything else they've done (indeed they may have not done anything else!). To be more concise, I like a review/reviewer to be able to stand alone and not need to be contextualized by my previous knowledge/preconceptions about the reviewers preferences.
 
I found myself lost in your descriptions. I could have done a find/replace for Holo Dac and substituted any well regarded DAC on the market right now. Being a chinese market product, many of us can't listen to the Holo, so comparison to models we've either heard, owned or can audition is IMO critical as many I gather will be buying blind.  
 
If you're certain it's better in NOS mode, I'd invite comparison to the Metrum Hex, Pavane, and Yggy as a minimum to place it in the market. It's disappointing that it's SRC modes are rubbish, however. 

 

[ted_b]

Why would I start there???  Metrum Hex, Pavane and Yiggy do not do DSD at all, let alone a separate dac path (and I love my DSD collection, and several CA folks want to hear what I say about DSD cuz I've listened to 20+ DSD dacs in my 5 years of file-based DSD listening, started the DSD database with Jesus, wrote the SACD Ripping Guide, etc)..  I introduced that idea of reviewing dual path DSD/PCM dacs in what you called "all of us know this".section.   . 
 
We are clearly on separate pages.   My fault for not being more obvious.  I offered to listen to the Yiggy cuz folks asked, but to spend all of my time comparing the PCM portion of the Holo Audio Spring to several other PCM-only dacs is not something I am vaguely interested in. 

 

[willsw]

For anyone at RMAF, Kitsune just dropped off a Holo Spring DAC for us to use today (our DAC was lost by FedEx) in room 6015.