[thompsontechs]

I just ordered both Spring Kitsune and the SU-1. Now comes the problem with the wife.... :O

 

[DecentLevi]

Hello folks, I hope you don't mind but I'm transferring a conversation that was in question of the validity of DDCs to this thread as I think we have more people of knowledge to better address this topic here. Granted this is the Holo Audio Spring DAC thread, of which I have tried several times and regard it very highly; yet I think the Holo Audio Spring thread that works fantastic in conjunction with the DDC Sungxer SU-1 is more relevant than the Feliks Audio Euforia thread these comments were posted on.
 
Anybody with direct experience with the effect of DDC's / USB components on an audiophile rig vs. direct from a standard USB out, feel free to comment as well.
 

 
http://www.head-fi.org/newsearch?search=ddc
 
Indeed DDC is the correct name for these USB components, AKA "USB interface". I had however mistook it for Domain Digital Converter instead of Digital to Digital Converter and called it a USB component instead of interface. The terminology for these relatively new devices are somewhat perplexing to say the least, but at least some universal terms are surfacing for these, LOL.

I have the Singxer SU-1 DDC shown above. It was recommended to improve the sound being fed to the Holo Audio Spring DAC, to which I had also personally confirmed from testing. I got it in anticipation for that DAC, but in the meantime it's doing wonders for both of my current DAC's ('Mimby' and Gustard X12, which it's able to connect to both simultaneously via AES/EBU which is a 3-pin XLR cable, and RCA coax to the other DAC. On both DAC's (as well as the Holo which I previously tested it with / without), I'm noticing an unmistakable improvement in all aspects of fidelity - everything from dynamics to layering, imaging, and especially overall realism. The drums hit harder, things sound more real, instruments are placed better and I turn my head more often to check if what I heard was real-life or not. I am using this in conjuction with the Wyrd from Schiit Audio (PC --> Wyrd --> SU-1 --> DAC). I have tested each the Wyrd and SU-1 DDC's alone and together and have concluded after extensive testing that without any doubt whatsoever the pairing of these two DDC's together are legendary and give unmistakeable improvements to the sound, with absolutely nothing over or under-done. Yup, this is the DDC setup I'm standing by and I've read from multiple members it gives even better performance to a DAC when used with the I2S connection, which is actually via HDMI cable. 
 
In regards to the Hugo 2, while that's great it does accept USB input via micro-USB cable, I personally would need to do a little more research to see whether a DDC "USB interface" would further benefit this connection or not, because the vast majority of the time, everybody who has tried a DDC into any DAC reports further improvements... and while I understand the basic functions of taking a USB binary stream and converting it into other digital connection options I'm no expert on how these work; however I do also know it also has something to do with digital "re-clocking", and has other ways of "cleaning up" the signal from a USB, which is necessary because the USB board of the majority of computers are not implemented in a way this is able to give optimal performance if connected directly to an audiophile rig.
 
PS- the Singxer SU-1 outputs are not compatible with the Hugo 2 AFAIK, however the budget-friendly Wyrd would work.
 

  What is the basis of your claim that "cleaning up" is necessary because USB boards of majority of computers are not implimented to give optimal performance? Do you have technical information to support this claim? I feed my run-of-the-mill Dell desktop PC directly to my Bimby with wonderful results.
 
BTW, Schiit markets Wyrd to clean up "strange" noises and prevent "drop out". They expressly disavow any claim of sonic improvement:
 
"Yes. Some listeners say Wyrd improves the sound of their system. We won't make any such claim to sonic nirvana—sorry, creating expectation bias and neuro-lingustic programming ain't something that we do. Sonic improvements are for you to decide. The rest of it—color printing and data stability—that’s like saying charging your iPhone off Wyrd makes the battery last longer. Have fun with that one"

   
Good one Pct. 

 
First tube rings, then USB boards needs cleaning up. If you're that 'audiophiled' then get yourself a dedicated source instead of a PC. As for me, my NASA computer with the state of the art USB board is good enough.
 
I love Schitt statement - they want to dispel any expectation bias.
 

 
First I would like to say that I too was once put off at the notion of adding an extra component to my rig... and much less having to use extra electricity, yet fast forward to present I think they add far greater listening pleasure. Next I'd like to mention how strange it is that the topic of DDCs has never been discussed on any of the Feliks Audio threads.
 
For me, the basis of my claim that to what these extraordinary USB components do is based on extensive testing; each time with very real, very noticeable auditory differences. I have full confidence that the difference these make can be explained by no other way than "distinctive and unmistakable". For me the USB 'cleaning' process all started out with the Wyrd from Schiit Audio which I have sworn by for 2 years... that's right, two solid years using many rigs including 5 different amps (Ember, LC, ESP-950, Elise and Little Labs Monotor), 3 different DACs (Gustard X12, Bimby, Mimby), for which I noticed an improvement each time.
 
And for the occasion I had just now done another A/B of direct from USB vs. with my two DDCs into my DAC (Wyrd + SU-1). The only things that seemed to remain the same were perhaps the volume and the FR; yet I think even the FR extended further on the top. The main differences I heard were: 

1. Greatly improved realism: drums, vocals, etc. sounded lifelike vs. artificial without the DDCs.
2. Instrument separation: everything sounds nicely laid out in their space in a very cohesive and pleasing way, vs. somewhat clausterphobic without
3. Top end: treble sounds smooth, pleasing, detailed, yet not fatiguing at all as if everything is in its' place, rather than quite harsh and nearly shrill, and artificial without
4. Lower end: better defined
5. Greater sense of space / air / headroom
6. Resolution / refinement: The overall package with these two DDCs made such an extraordinary difference that without I hardly even recognized a song which I had just heard moments before with, of which I previously enjoyed for its' lifelike and pleasing sound, yet without sounded very much 'meh'

 
Schiit Audio downlplays the effect of their Wyrd for a reason: they don't want to be held accountable in the off-chance that somebody buys one and doesn't notice a difference. They don't want to claim that it does wonders, save for the person using it on their cheap headphones that aren't capable of letting them hear the difference. I also do not claim this to work "wonders" either; however when used on the right DAC or even in conjunction with a secondary DDC, I do believe it's priceless... and while on the topic of disclaimers I will also say the Wyrd is not the only one, as there are now at least a dozen companies that make USB components with prices ranging from around $50 up to almost $1,000, each doing the job differently. 
 
On my experiences with the Singxer SU-1 with the Holo Audio DAC (level 3), I had done an A/B of it at a local San Jose meet on the table of an official vendor known as Head Amp, to which I noticed staggering improvements, though some of the reason for improvement here was more because it enabled us to use a different cable connection; I2S which this DAC is better implemented with rather than its' USB input; which is to say that not only its' USB signal cleaning helped the sound, but also it's digital format conversion as well. In regards to this pairing, the difference was heralded universally as a mainstay component for this DAC (including by this vendor himself), with the exception of some who use other DDCs for the Holo.
 
Also I would like to mention that myself having been a 3-time organizer of local Head-Fi meets and having attended at least as many Can Jam events, it is a normal sight to see the likes of USB components 'behind' the DAC of many of the top setups.
 
On the technical side, myself being no expert but here are a few highlights I've found of the reason these components make an auditory difference:
 

1. reduces jitter + packet errors
2. reduces RFI + EMI noise
3. regenerates the power; replacing the shared power bus of your PCs USB ports with its' 'clean' power
4. enhances the background and inner resolution of the recording

 
I hope that somebody with more experience / insights can jump in here to explain why these components make such a big difference, and why the average PCs USB output is not implemented optimally for audiophile purposes (which is a fact).
 
And per the notion of DDCs not doing anything for the sound, I would say:

1. Try it yourself and you may be impressed (on a good system)
2. Research the topic on audiophile forums. You may find some who disagree, but the majority would more likely agree
3. Why would these components exist if they don't make any noticeable difference?

 

[DecentLevi]

Also I noticed the iFi iSilencer can be had for only $50! I'm wondering if this can be a good replacement for the Wyrd, as I'll want something very small for long travels. Would anyone know how this compares to the Wyrd or other USB components sonically? However it apparently has no isolated power.

 

[justbenice]

i am intersting in this Holo Audio Spring R2R, i wonder where we can get best price for the basic version ? And how much it cost for upgrade the Silver O-Type transformer ?

 

[bluesaint]

  i am intersting in this Holo Audio Spring R2R, i wonder where we can get best price for the basic version ? And how much it cost for upgrade the Silver O-Type transformer ?

 
Level 1:
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacbase/
 
Level 2:
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacred/
 
Level 3:
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacgreen/

 

[justbenice]

   
Level 1:
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacbase/
 
Level 2:
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacred/
 
Level 3:
https://kitsunehifi.com/product/springdacgreen/

 
Thank you ! 
BTW, those Holo DAC made from China , right ?

 

[bluesaint]

   
Thank you ! 
BTW, those Holo DAC made from China , right ?

Yes they are, but you get full 3 years worth of transferable warranty through kitsune.

 

[justbenice]

  Yes they are, but you get full 3 years worth of transferable warranty through kitsune.

Thank you! 
So which company (or person) that made this DAC ? 

 

[ericr]

Spring DAC is the product name.

Holo Audio is the manufacturer.

Kitsune Hi Fi is USA based and a primary distributor/dealer for Holo Audio (and a great company to do business with!).

Some Holo Audio products are exclusive to Kitsune - such as the KTE (Kitsune Tuned Edition) of the Spring DAC.

 

[ZGojira]

Some Holo Audio products are exclusive to Kitsune - such as the KTE (Kitsune Tuned Edition) of the Spring DAC.

 
Kitsune sells thier special modified version of the Spring DAC called the KTE (Kitsune Tuned Edition).

 

[WNBC]

Who's on First?

 

[ericr]

LOL!

That was my best laugh this week!

 

[Contrails]

Interested in this DAC. Do they ship outside Canada and US? In the shipping options, New Zealand is not listed as an option. And how do we choose the 230v version? Cheers.

 

[joseph69]

Interested in this DAC. Do they ship outside Canada and US? In the shipping options, New Zealand is not listed as an option. And how do we choose the 230v version? Cheers.

Contact Kitsune Hi-Fi and ask Tim who is the US distributor.

 

[gk2013]

Interested in this DAC. Do they ship outside Canada and US? In the shipping options, New Zealand is not listed as an option. And how do we choose the 230v version? Cheers.

 
If you need the 230V version you can also contact Magna Hifi. They ship the 230V version and probably to New Zealand. Offer 3 years full warrant. Nice company, highly recommended!