May 18, 2023 at 10:45 AM Post #3,800 of 4,243
I am having some confusion regarding the output voltage of my Spring 3 KTE. It seems the Spring 3 has a pretty high output voltage. My DAC is without a preamp. When I use the Spring 3 with my stereo preamp, I seem to have an unpleasant sound. It is hard to describe, but it just does not sound correct. The Spring 3 sounds remarkable with my Holo Bliss headamp, and most other headphone amps I have tried. On paper, both my DAC and stereo Preamp are excellent. But together the sound just leaves a lot to be desired. Is it possible that the 5.8V balanced output voltage of the Spring 3 is not ideal for my stereo preamp? The input impedance of my preamp is documented as 47Kohms from the manufacturer. Stereophile measured it differently, "The balanced input impedance measured a usefully high 96k ohms at 20Hz and 1kHz, dropping to a still-high 82k ohms at 20kHz." It seems this high input impedance would make the DAC output voltage not a problem, right?

When I use a different DAC, like a Schiit Bifrost 2/64, the sound seems to be generally "better." This DAC has a standard 4.0V output. I may be chasing nothing here, but is it possible the high output voltage of the Spring 3 is to blame?
 
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May 18, 2023 at 5:49 PM Post #3,801 of 4,243
I am having some confusion regarding the output voltage of my Spring 3 KTE. It seems the Spring 3 has a pretty high output voltage. My DAC is without a preamp. When I use the Spring 3 with my stereo preamp, I seem to have an unpleasant sound. It is hard to describe, but it just does not sound correct. The Spring 3 sounds remarkable with my Holo Bliss headamp, and most other headphone amps I have tried. On paper, both my DAC and stereo Preamp are excellent. But together the sound just leaves a lot to be desired. Is it possible that the 5.8V balanced output voltage of the Spring 3 is not ideal for my stereo preamp? The input impedance of my preamp is documented as 47Kohms from the manufacturer. Stereophile measured it differently, "The balanced input impedance measured a usefully high 96k ohms at 20Hz and 1kHz, dropping to a still-high 82k ohms at 20kHz." It seems this high input impedance would make the DAC output voltage not a problem, right?

When I use a different DAC, like a Schiit Bifrost 2/64, the sound seems to be generally "better." This DAC has a standard 4.0V output. I may be chasing nothing here, but is it possible the high output voltage of the Spring 3 is to blame?
Can you easily put the Bliss in-between and reduce the volume before your preamp?
 
May 19, 2023 at 7:00 AM Post #3,803 of 4,243
I am having some confusion regarding the output voltage of my Spring 3 KTE. It seems the Spring 3 has a pretty high output voltage. My DAC is without a preamp. When I use the Spring 3 with my stereo preamp, I seem to have an unpleasant sound. It is hard to describe, but it just does not sound correct....
...When I use a different DAC, like a Schiit Bifrost 2/64, the sound seems to be generally "better." This DAC has a standard 4.0V output. I may be chasing nothing here, but is it possible the high output voltage of the Spring 3 is to blame?
Hi Greg,
It's possible you are getting clipping and distortion due to the too hot 5.8V output, which your preamp may not be able to handle..
The input impedance of my preamp is documented as 47Kohms from the manufacturer. Stereophile measured it differently, "The balanced input impedance measured a usefully high 96k ohms at 20Hz and 1kHz, dropping to a still-high 82k ohms at 20kHz." It seems this high input impedance would make the DAC output voltage not a problem, right?
A high input impedance helps with a source that has too high output impedance, I don't think it will do anything for a source with too high voltage.

The solution in this case would be to attenuate the signal. People have suggested attenuators in this thread (for the case with preamp and XLR out for example). They are very transparent, and they exist for XLR plugs in 2 types that can be inserted either at the source output or at the preamp input (see http://www.britaudio.com/accessories.html).
You could also try using your Bliss as an attenuator as suggested by Clemmaster, or instead of your preamp, but this may not be how you plan to use your Bliss...
 
May 19, 2023 at 11:40 AM Post #3,804 of 4,243
I am having some confusion regarding the output voltage of my Spring 3 KTE. It seems the Spring 3 has a pretty high output voltage. My DAC is without a preamp. When I use the Spring 3 with my stereo preamp, I seem to have an unpleasant sound. It is hard to describe, but it just does not sound correct. The Spring 3 sounds remarkable with my Holo Bliss headamp, and most other headphone amps I have tried. On paper, both my DAC and stereo Preamp are excellent. But together the sound just leaves a lot to be desired. Is it possible that the 5.8V balanced output voltage of the Spring 3 is not ideal for my stereo preamp? The input impedance of my preamp is documented as 47Kohms from the manufacturer. Stereophile measured it differently, "The balanced input impedance measured a usefully high 96k ohms at 20Hz and 1kHz, dropping to a still-high 82k ohms at 20kHz." It seems this high input impedance would make the DAC output voltage not a problem, right?

When I use a different DAC, like a Schiit Bifrost 2/64, the sound seems to be generally "better." This DAC has a standard 4.0V output. I may be chasing nothing here, but is it possible the high output voltage of the Spring 3 is to blame?
Have you tried the RCA outs yet? The RCAs are 3.8v
 
May 24, 2023 at 6:07 PM Post #3,805 of 4,243
Seven weeks later and the eagle has landed!
Spring 3 KTE w/Pre

IMG_0305.jpeg

IMG_0310.jpg
 
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May 27, 2023 at 7:09 AM Post #3,807 of 4,243
I am having some confusion regarding the output voltage of my Spring 3 KTE. It seems the Spring 3 has a pretty high output voltage. My DAC is without a preamp. When I use the Spring 3 with my stereo preamp, I seem to have an unpleasant sound. It is hard to describe, but it just does not sound correct. The Spring 3 sounds remarkable with my Holo Bliss headamp, and most other headphone amps I have tried. On paper, both my DAC and stereo Preamp are excellent. But together the sound just leaves a lot to be desired. Is it possible that the 5.8V balanced output voltage of the Spring 3 is not ideal for my stereo preamp? The input impedance of my preamp is documented as 47Kohms from the manufacturer. Stereophile measured it differently, "The balanced input impedance measured a usefully high 96k ohms at 20Hz and 1kHz, dropping to a still-high 82k ohms at 20kHz." It seems this high input impedance would make the DAC output voltage not a problem, right?

When I use a different DAC, like a Schiit Bifrost 2/64, the sound seems to be generally "better." This DAC has a standard 4.0V output. I may be chasing nothing here, but is it possible the high output voltage of the Spring 3 is to blame?

As twinkles said up there, that sounds to clipping.

I asked Magna Hifi about the pre amp option (mine has no PRE too) and they said the Bliss is made to be working with Spring or May DACs as well the output voltage will not be a problem for any gear that is built following the nowadays standards, so there is no need to add pre amp module in my purpose.

Maybe is not the case of your pre amp and you or those using older equipment should add pre amp module or use Rothwell attenuators as alternative.
 
May 27, 2023 at 12:29 PM Post #3,808 of 4,243
I was able to reduce the input gain on my preamp to -3db for the Holo Spring and leave it at 0dB for the Bifrost 2/64. I've been trying to avoid this but it was absolutely necessary. This resulted in matched gain between the two DACs. Second, I am just struggling with the bad space I have for my new speakers. I believe that is the only real issue here. The oversampling on the Bifrost is definitely making things sound dramatically more crisp and clear compared to the Holo so that makes up for some deficiencies with speaker placement IMO. However, just one tiny movement of my speakers changes everything. So, I think there is really nothing wrong with the hardware. It's just that my speakers (Vivid Kaya 90) are extremely placement dependent. I know my current space is very not ideal as well.

I have tried the Holo Bliss as a preamp and it's really nice. It is absolutely dead silent with my new Purifi 1ET7040SA amps. However, it is still not quite up to the level of transparency that I want with my stereo. I expect to try a Serene at some point in the future when I have moved into a new space. Until then, I think I just need to keep messing with the placement of my speakers. Like I said, even the smallest movement has a dramatic effect in my awful space. I am in a nearfield position, only about 7.5' away from the speakers. They are just not meant for such near field listening.

The Bliss is undoubtedly the best headphone amp I've ever heard. It's going nowhere anytime soon because I got it for headphone purposes. The Bifrost 2/64 really, really gives the Holo Spring a run for its money, however. If Schiit were to do DoP or better yet native DSD, I would have a really hard time wanting anything beyond the Bifrost 2/64. I adore the Spring 3, but the prices are getting out of hand. But then as I say that I know I will get a May KTE within the next year. :darthsmile:
 
May 28, 2023 at 2:18 AM Post #3,810 of 4,243
As twinkles said up there, that sounds to clipping.

I asked Magna Hifi about the pre amp option (mine has no PRE too) and they said the Bliss is made to be working with Spring or May DACs as well the output voltage will not be a problem for any gear that is built following the nowadays standards, so there is no need to add pre amp module in my purpose.

Maybe is not the case of your pre amp and you or those using older equipment should add pre amp module or use Rothwell attenuators as alternative.

I would like to know if the Spring3 would fit in my set-up.

My preamp is a Plinius M8.

In the Plinius M8 preamp specs, I found this :
Input Sensitivity :125mV RMS all unbalanced inputs.
Input Impedance : 50k ohms.

Is there a way to understand if these specs seem adequate for the Spring 3 output voltage ?

Thank you
 

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