[bogi]

Looks like clocks are generated from USB/I2S inputs via FPGA, ie it doesn't have any physical internal clocks at all?

Clock on DAC USB receiver is used co control asynchronous data transfer from source (usually computer). But that data received is buffered (thus the transfer can be asynchronous). When buffer state is low, USB firmware will ask USB driver running on computer to send some amount of data. Other DAC clock is used to control reading data from that buffer.

In the case of SPDIF and I2S clock is derived from synchronously arriving data, so it is affected by data (or external clock) arrival accuracy. But that's not the case of USB. In the case of asynchronous USB DAC clock is never generated from incoming signal. With USB, DAC clock is absolutely standalone, it does not depend on accuracy how incoming data is filled into USB buffer. So it does not make sense to state that DAC does not have any internal clock in the case of USB input. DAC could not function with asynchronous USB input without its own clock, independent on USB board.

 

[alxw0w]

I didn't find anywhere which clocks does Cyan2 use? Looks like clocks are generated from USB/I2S inputs via FPGA, ie it doesn't have any physical internal clocks at all?
Can someone please explain?

It doesn't matter until @GoldenSound or someone else will measure the jitter.
If it's good then it's good.

 

[GoldenSound]

It doesn't matter until @GoldenSound or someone else will measure the jitter.
If it's good then it's good.

I'm quite keen to test one. Hopefully can borrow one from someone in the UK at somepoint.

But yeah, the particular clocks used are not that important, implementation is everything.
There are tons of products with really big and/or expensive clocks that have mediocre jitter performance, and products with really cheap/basic clocks that have designed the product well and as a result have an excellent level of jitter.

All else being equal, better clocks are a good thing, but all else is very rarely equal. What matters is the end result.

You can get cars with massive >1000 horsepower engines, but a BAC Mono with it's measly ~350 horsepower will still embarrass them in a straight line or on a track

 

[bogi]

USB jitter is already measured by Jussi and it is stellar low:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/best-native-dsd-dacs-for-use-with-hqplayer/132298/694

 

[alxw0w]

I'm quite keen to test one. Hopefully can borrow one from someone in the UK at somepoint.

But yeah, the particular clocks used are not that important, implementation is everything.
There are tons of products with really big and/or expensive clocks that have mediocre jitter performance, and products with really cheap/basic clocks that have designed the product well and as a result have an excellent level of jitter.

All else being equal, better clocks are a good thing, but all else is very rarely equal. What matters is the end result.

You can get cars with massive >1000 horsepower engines, but a BAC Mono with it's measly ~350 horsepower will still embarrass them in a straight line or on a track

Yes, I'm glad that in this audiophile (really don't want to use word audiofool) world you are trying to put some objectivism into perspective.

 

[albertmuc]

I can see you have violectric v222, does it pair well with the Cyan2 ?
Nice set up btw

The combination of Cyan 2 and Violectric V222 should be supplemented by headphones with sufficiently trebles, the HE1000se and the AA Composer are a good choice. The HD800s could already missing treble/sparkle, a question of taste, upsampling is then possibly the solution. The V222 was previously allowed to supplement an RME ADI 2 Dac. Typically, the McChanson tube amplifier is in the chain.

 

[gammi]

USB jitter is already measured by Jussi and it is stellar low:
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/best-native-dsd-dacs-for-use-with-hqplayer/132298/694

Did he say anywhere what input was used? I don't see that listed in the thread. I assume USB but can't say for sure.

Also it's interesting he pointed out Cyan 2 uses an 8+8 DSD ladder vs the 16+16 ladder in the Spring 3/May.
I was under the impression the ladder part of the circuit was the same and the cost cutting measures were made elsewhere, it seems I was wrong about that.
PCM is still a 16+16 ladder though.

Also Jussi suggests 20 bits for Cyan 2 in HQPlayer. Additionally there were some measurements posted in that thread and DSD256 measures better than 512 (perhaps due to the smaller ladder)

 

[bogi]

Did he say anywhere what input was used? I don't see that listed in the thread. I assume USB but can't say for sure.

100% it was USB. Jussi is known he is not fan of I2S. It is because of clocking derived from I2S input signal and making DAC clock dependent on it.

Also it's interesting he pointed out Cyan 2 uses an 8+8 DSD ladder vs the 16+16 ladder in the Spring 3/May.

Here it is shown also on pictures: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/best-native-dsd-dacs-for-use-with-hqplayer/132298/333

 

[realmccoy]

The combination of Cyan 2 and Violectric V222 should be supplemented by headphones with sufficiently trebles, the HE1000se and the AA Composer are a good choice. The HD800s could already missing treble/sparkle, a question of taste, upsampling is then possibly the solution. The V222 was previously allowed to supplement an RME ADI 2 Dac. Typically, the McChanson tube amplifier is in the chain.

I have HE1000 stealth and zmf atrium closed, wonder if it’s good thru the v222

 

[OhmsClaw]

Me too! Was being swayed toward the MHDT Orchid, but it has a tube, and my setup requires it be in a tight space, so that worries me.

It's so tempting... I just noticed the RED was back in stock at Kitsune and THIS WAS ON THE PAGE. Again... compared to my RME is it worth it? Seems like a NOS flavor side-grade which the Spring also puts me off. I was considering the WANDLA as my end-of-the-line D/S solution for my main set up and move the RME to 2 channel. The Cyan 2 looks like a very well built, very competitive and stylish unit.

Pure NOS (and the Orchid with its chip upgrade scavenger hunt, cap mods, tube rolling) will require me going down the UPNP rabbit hole and necessitate HQP OS filtering and that investment of a subscription. I wish I could just let it be like all the NOS enjoyers but after comparing previous NOS with some female vocals on well recorded tracks, I couldn't get over the timbre difference with the early roll off of 44.1/48 content.

 

[OhmsClaw]

I understand, but I would love to pay 100$ for one additional button on front.
Long press toggle on/off
Single press input switch

It's really not a rocket science, as much as I understand keeping low cost I cannot understand such compromises...

I was seriously considering buying one, but I don't know, I mean it's not big issue after all but still bad taste lasts. :/

I mean... it's an R2R NOS dac. The MFR and most fans of this technology intend to leave it on 24/7 for thermal stability and only disconnect power for thunderstorms/etc. Lack of input is annoying and I haven't been able to find an input hierarchy, only that you must either unplug or power down the digital sources and it will auto detect the active incoming source.

 

[OhmsClaw]

Disclaimer this are my subjective impressions on the Holo Audio Cyan 2 standard version paired with the Mjolnir 3 via xlr using only the usb cable to the laptop with Amazon Music Unlimited on High gain connected tonthe He1000 Stealth with the xlr cable. I listen mostly to post rock genre Sorry for any grammatical errors.

Starting from The Music

Jeff Buckley - I Know It's Over (The Smiths cover) the s are not disturbing at all compared to the bifrost 2/64 that was piercing my ears.
Cult Of Luna - Leave Me Here goes straight and deep to the feels not fatiguing at all
Flies Are Spies From Hell - Imagine Your Murder min 2:05 transition from Guitar fading to Attack on the Tom Tom there Is a piano in crescendo in the background that Is clearly audible
Yndi Halda - A Song For Starlit Beaches Min from 9:20 to 10:15 had goosebump Min 12:20 super busy passage with guitars violins cymabals and you clearly can hear the bass riffs

Godspeed You! Black Emperor - Moya from min 8:30 It starts a busy passage very good separation with the low end that is not covering the violins in the background
Long Distance Calling - The Nearing Grave (feat Singer of Katatonia) Min 6:29 double pedal kick drums going at the same Speed of the riffs of the guitar never realized It
Mono - Dream Odyssey Min 6:20 there Is a crescendo of instruments that are not creating a Wall Sound and Is very engaiging
Her Name Is Calla - Thief Min 1:39 before the Singer starts you can hear a Lip lick that i never noticed
Kyuss - Demon Cleaner the outro where there Is a Guitar solo fading away you can hear to the last info really impressive
Coheed And Cambria The Audience Min 2:00 there Is a second Guitar in the distant background that Is doing a lot of stuff going from left to the right i can hear It but not as defined as The Merason Frerot + Pow 1 the cyan 2 Is more of a side grade than and upgrade compared to the Frerot. The Cyan 2 has better depth and holographic effect noticeable pariculary in Chocolate Chip Trip from Tool but generally speaking the sound Is more in you face, front row. the low end delivers when required, i love the timbre and the highs that are never fatiguing It's impressive in the reproduction of cymbals notes, you can distinguish a crash from a hi-hat and has a long decay that reminds me of tubes i love It.
The Merason + Pow 1 has more width and less depth but It's more neutral and airy Simply put It synergies Better with the he1000 Stealth nature but i can see how the cyan 2 could be a perfect match with the zmf headphones or the he1000 se this Always in my humble and subjective opinion.
The Cyan 2 Is and Amazing dac but it's not the sound signature that i'm looking for
If anyone wants to trade a Merason Frerot Pow 1 for a brand new cyan 2 ready to be shipped dm me i'll post It on the classified section in any case or i could always return It

Impresive, very nice, but Let's hear Paul Allen's impressions.

So this was NOS throughout? Average playback rate was redbook or 96/192? Did you try comparing it to the 2/64 in NOS mode sans super combo burrito filter?

 

[OhmsClaw]

No prob!
Happy to help, HQPlayer is unfortunately a bit daunting to set up so I try to provide some easy config guidance when possible. The stock settings are....'just ok' but this config will give you 2 million taps and a very high performance noise shaper.

The soundstage and placement/spatial presentation you get with Sinc-Mx in particular is kinda wild.

To be honest I wouldn't recommend going Holo Red with Cyan. The Cyan 2 already has fully galvanically isolated USB and whilst I've not seen any tests of the Cyan 2 specifically, the Spring 3 and May both had essentially flawless jitter performance so I'd imagine Cyan 2 is going to be similar

Would the Red be the easiest solution for Tidal Streaming/End Pointing HQP to *any ASIO DAC* as a streamer -> USB out? Or would that require the double license treating the Red as an embed unit? Or is the Red as an NAA mean the desktop client/license is good to go as long as you're doing RJ45 to the unit (or some wifi mod to USB in DDC mode)

 

[Spinning46rpm]

No input selection is a joke - the Cyan2 is definitely not for me.
I guess I have to wait for the Gustard R26 successor - maybe at the Highend Munich show we will know more

 

[bogi]

Would the Red be the easiest solution for Tidal Streaming/End Pointing HQP to *any ASIO DAC* as a streamer -> USB out? Or would that require the double license treating the Red as an embed unit? Or is the Red as an NAA mean the desktop client/license is good to go as long as you're doing RJ45 to the unit (or some wifi mod to USB in DDC mode)

[iOS or Android app with Tidal and UPnP support] ---WiFi---> [HQPlayer Embedded on high power computer] ---Ethernet---> [Holo Red as NAA] ---USB---> [Cyan 2]
or directly if HQPlayer computer is not loud (noisy) and can be placed near DAC:
[iOS or Android app with Tidal and UPnP support]---WiFi---> [HQPlayer Embedded on high power computer] ---USB---> [Cyan 2]

Then only HQPlayer Embedded license is needed, you don't need HQPlayer Desktop in such a case.
Suitable mobile apps are mConnect Player, BubbleUPnP, JPlay.
Instead of wired Ethernet one can of course use something like this with short Ethernet cable to connect Holo Red to WiFi LAN.

Tidal and HQPlayer Desktop is possible, but not so easily or it has some drawbacks. Qobuz is better choice with HQPlayer Desktop for people who don't run Roon.