[AussieMick]

I don’t go in for the “is it ten times better?” question at all. Value is so damn personal, and it’s only buying in bulk where doubling your money gets you more than double the goods.
Is a Ferrari 200 times better than a Corolla? Depends what you mean by better.

I’m all in on going big with electronics for headphones because I’ve gone from speaker works first, maybe? But I don’t think it’s usual at all to pair a $4000 speaker with a $700 amp. That makes no sense if the goal is a balanced system.

 

[Sand Dan Glokta]

Hi, im new into this thread. I bought susvara open box in august directly from hifiman, i live in spain. No taxes, so i asume they came from poland. After two months of use, the right driver died, but i had no problem with hifiman with the replacement. I had to pay 40 € of the shipping but its not a big problem in a 4000€ headphones. Talking about amps i have a topping a 90 which is 8w and a burson 3x gt which is 20w. 4 and 10 for channel. I heard a lot of people who claims a90 is good enough for the susvara, but it isnt. The only thing you get is resolution, and a decent stage from left to right. No bass, less than average slam and zero deepth. Even sound clipping when it become to get thrill, i mean not enough power, and not enough quality compared with a clase a amp. In the other hand, the burson with 10 wats per channel of clase a power, can give you a lot more volume, a lot more bass, better slam, a quite good sense of depth and the same resolution. But i think even the 10w per channel gt, isnt enough for susvara to shine. Its a very enjoyable combo but i got arya v2 which is more sensitive and you understand why people talk about how big planars scale with the power. Arya v2 with burson has a huge soundstage with a brutal bass (they were suposed to be bright ) and a brutal slam. Of course in resolution susvara play in another league. So i asume that susvara can reach that soundstage and that bass and slam putting in it more watts than the 10xchannel. I like to listen very loud because its when soundstage expands and everything gets as big as in real life. So i have a question for you. Feliks envy and cayin ha300 have enough power to drive the susvara ultra loud even in quiet recorded music? Or i have to think in bigger guys like Primavera, ef1000 and aic10???
Of course im talking of 4 and 10w at 8ohms, and envy and cayin work in a different way, so thats why i ask.

 

[nikkosjf]

I can relate to much of what you are saying, it’s all very close to how I would describe my experiences. I have an AIC10, and a I have ordered a Trafomatic. Even with the aic10, i saw a dramatic improvement upgrading my DAC, so chain of course matters. I have heard many people say wonderful things about the aic10 and Susvara, and i am not saying it isn’t good, the aic10 is spectacular with every headphone that i have, but from what you say about your listening preferences around volume, soundstage, slam, etc. I believe aic10 would not be what you are looking for, and please know that i am in love with my aic10 so speaking about it in any even mildly derogatory way pains me! I cannot say if Primavera does the trick, but believing and hoping she might is why i ordered it. I will let you know what happens when it arrives.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Hi, im new into this thread. I bought susvara open box in august directly from hifiman, i live in spain. No taxes, so i asume they came from poland. After two months of use, the right driver died, but i had no problem with hifiman with the replacement. I had to pay 40 € of the shipping but its not a big problem in a 4000€ headphones. Talking about amps i have a topping a 90 which is 8w and a burson 3x gt which is 20w. 4 and 10 for channel. I heard a lot of people who claims a90 is good enough for the susvara, but it isnt. The only thing you get is resolution, and a decent stage from left to right. No bass, less than average slam and zero deepth. Even sound clipping when it become to get thrill, i mean not enough power, and not enough quality compared with a clase a amp. In the other hand, the burson with 10 wats per channel of clase a power, can give you a lot more volume, a lot more bass, better slam, a quite good sense of depth and the same resolution. But i think even the 10w per channel gt, isnt enough for susvara to shine. Its a very enjoyable combo but i got arya v2 which is more sensitive and you understand why people talk about how big planars scale with the power. Arya v2 with burson has a huge soundstage with a brutal bass (they were suposed to be bright ) and a brutal slam. Of course in resolution susvara play in another league. So i asume that susvara can reach that soundstage and that bass and slam putting in it more watts than the 10xchannel. I like to listen very loud because its when soundstage expands and everything gets as big as in real life. So i have a question for you. Feliks envy and cayin ha300 have enough power to drive the susvara ultra loud even in quiet recorded music? Or i have to think in bigger guys like Primavera, ef1000 and aic10???
Of course im talking of 4 and 10w at 8ohms, and envy and cayin work in a different way, so thats why i ask.

You should seriously consider the Hifiman EF1000 Amp (hybrid - tube pre & SS power) to get the best out of the Susvara !

The EF1000 is also a great amp as a speaker amp too when connected to reasonably efficient speakers i.e. with 90+ dB sensitivity, so two amps in one !

 

[trollbearpig]

Hi, im new into this thread. I bought susvara open box in august directly from hifiman, i live in spain. No taxes, so i asume they came from poland. After two months of use, the right driver died, but i had no problem with hifiman with the replacement. I had to pay 40 € of the shipping but its not a big problem in a 4000€ headphones. Talking about amps i have a topping a 90 which is 8w and a burson 3x gt which is 20w. 4 and 10 for channel. I heard a lot of people who claims a90 is good enough for the susvara, but it isnt. The only thing you get is resolution, and a decent stage from left to right. No bass, less than average slam and zero deepth. Even sound clipping when it become to get thrill, i mean not enough power, and not enough quality compared with a clase a amp. In the other hand, the burson with 10 wats per channel of clase a power, can give you a lot more volume, a lot more bass, better slam, a quite good sense of depth and the same resolution. But i think even the 10w per channel gt, isnt enough for susvara to shine. Its a very enjoyable combo but i got arya v2 which is more sensitive and you understand why people talk about how big planars scale with the power. Arya v2 with burson has a huge soundstage with a brutal bass (they were suposed to be bright ) and a brutal slam. Of course in resolution susvara play in another league. So i asume that susvara can reach that soundstage and that bass and slam putting in it more watts than the 10xchannel. I like to listen very loud because its when soundstage expands and everything gets as big as in real life. So i have a question for you. Feliks envy and cayin ha300 have enough power to drive the susvara ultra loud even in quiet recorded music? Or i have to think in bigger guys like Primavera, ef1000 and aic10???
Of course im talking of 4 and 10w at 8ohms, and envy and cayin work in a different way, so thats why i ask.

I’m suuuper curious on the Cayin amp considering how good the ha-6a sounds and also compared to feliks

 

[psy472]

I’m confused about all the power ratings in amps driving the Susvara. Take the MJ3, it only has 2W at 32Ohm but people with the Susvara loved it on their MJ3. While others with much higher output amps do poorly. Personally I also observed similar outcomes. Even the Jot2 got nothing on my MJ3 and it has 3 times the output.

So what gives? Is MJ3 putting a lot more power than advertised or are the other amps horribly inefficient?

 

[ericx85]

I think it was said that the MJ3 is more efficient with it's power. Granted I'm not overly concerned with power if the volume gets loud enough and has enough headroom. I mostly run the susvara out of holo bliss with my TT2, but I tried it out of the HP out in the TT2 and it sounded just fine with enough headroom. Just a different sound flavor. Honestly have debated selling the bliss, but being able to swap between cans/speakers with it is easier than plugging/unplugging cans from the TT2 and waiting for the TT2 to change internal settings over.

 

[AussieMick]

I’m confused about all the power ratings in amps driving the Susvara. Take the MJ3, it only has 2W at 32Ohm but people with the Susvara loved it on their MJ3. While others with much higher output amps do poorly. Personally I also observed similar outcomes. Even the Jot2 got nothing on my MJ3 and it has 3 times the output.

So what gives? Is MJ3 putting a lot more power than advertised or are the other amps horribly inefficient?

An amplifier not only needs enough wattage to satisfy listening level, but an appropriate current and damping factor for the proposed headphone. Even after those electrical parameters are met, the amplifier still needs to sound the way you want it to; some amplifiers have better imaging, staging (particularly depth) timbre, texture, dynamics, and sense of balance than others.
Finding a good electrical match isn’t really a guarantee that it’ll suit your particular preferences when it comes to how the system as a whole sounds.

 

[jlemaster1957]

I’m confused about all the power ratings in amps driving the Susvara. Take the MJ3, it only has 2W at 32Ohm but people with the Susvara loved it on their MJ3. While others with much higher output amps do poorly. Personally I also observed similar outcomes. Even the Jot2 got nothing on my MJ3 and it has 3 times the output.

So what gives? Is MJ3 putting a lot more power than advertised or are the other amps horribly inefficient?

Following is from SBAF re Schiit Tyr which also had a choke input . I am not asserting this is a necessary or sufficient component to what others have heard from the MJ3, but it may be a contributing factor.

***Lowish power test (simulating typical use with moderate-efficiency speakers)

5V into 8-ohms 1kHz

Well, what we can say from the measurements? In my humble experience, having measured many kinds of gear with different distortion profiles, the Tyr is likely to sound good. The distortion levels are extremely low and in theory not audible with the second harmonic well below -90db. However, these measurements are steady state signals that do not reflect the transient nature of musical signals.
The distortion pattern is very similar to that seen in triode tube amps, considered by some, including myself to be the holy grail of what a good sounding amplifier should sound like. This is indicated by a successive harmonics being lower than the one prior. The measurements indicate that the Tyr will sound nothing like most other class AB solid state amps which often have a distortion profile (with) odd-order harmonics, particularly at higher orders. These kinds of amps often have an "edgier" sound.

One important reason that an amplifier that is more powerful staves off the appearance of odd order harmonics (and higher order harmonics) until much higher voltages is that odd order and higher order harmonics (what @atomicbob refers to as "crap-factor") can start to make their appearance very early, often well before maximum power ratings are hit.

***one final note, the Tyr thread had lots of user impressions before and after this entry-SBAF folks are not ‘measurement first’ or only though they do make them and share them- anyway I found this interesting.

 

[jonchard]

Hi, im new into this thread. I bought susvara open box in august directly from hifiman, i live in spain. No taxes, so i asume they came from poland. After two months of use, the right driver died, but i had no problem with hifiman with the replacement. I had to pay 40 € of the shipping but its not a big problem in a 4000€ headphones. Talking about amps i have a topping a 90 which is 8w and a burson 3x gt which is 20w. 4 and 10 for channel. I heard a lot of people who claims a90 is good enough for the susvara, but it isnt. The only thing you get is resolution, and a decent stage from left to right. No bass, less than average slam and zero deepth. Even sound clipping when it become to get thrill, i mean not enough power, and not enough quality compared with a clase a amp. In the other hand, the burson with 10 wats per channel of clase a power, can give you a lot more volume, a lot more bass, better slam, a quite good sense of depth and the same resolution. But i think even the 10w per channel gt, isnt enough for susvara to shine. Its a very enjoyable combo but i got arya v2 which is more sensitive and you understand why people talk about how big planars scale with the power. Arya v2 with burson has a huge soundstage with a brutal bass (they were suposed to be bright ) and a brutal slam. Of course in resolution susvara play in another league. So i asume that susvara can reach that soundstage and that bass and slam putting in it more watts than the 10xchannel. I like to listen very loud because its when soundstage expands and everything gets as big as in real life. So i have a question for you. Feliks envy and cayin ha300 have enough power to drive the susvara ultra loud even in quiet recorded music? Or i have to think in bigger guys like Primavera, ef1000 and aic10???
Of course im talking of 4 and 10w at 8ohms, and envy and cayin work in a different way, so thats why i ask.

The Cayin 300B mkii with Elrog Mo, Mullard CV6 and Raytheon 22DE4 is utterly exceptional in sound quality terms. Is it loud enough ... NOT QUITE. Very nearly ... but i too like disco levels and Susvara drags it down at max levels. I couldnt tell you my volume levels as i have never measured it. If i click one stop up on the Cayin, i hear distortion entering the mix. Its loud, but not QUITE as loud as some songs need. A headphone like the Sony MDR-Z1R would be destroyed by the Cayin, but i feel the Susvara brings it to its knees at 95% of what i need for some songs. BUT ... I accept it for being exceptional. When i use the medium / high gain it just brings that distrotion a little sooner. I prerfer "low". I found this was true with both the Gustard R26 and Holo May DAC both with max volume. I was also advised to put the Cayin to max, and use a lower volume on the Gustard. For me, its a very close run "nearly" - But with true fluidity and lifelike presentation - its stunning.

 

[trollbearpig]

The Cayin 300B mkii with Elrog Mo, Mullard CV6 and Raytheon 22DE4 is utterly exceptional in sound quality terms. Is it loud enough ... NOT QUITE. Very nearly ... but i too like disco levels and Susvara drags it down at max levels. I couldnt tell you my volume levels as i have never measured it. If i click one stop up on the Cayin, i hear distortion entering the mix. Its loud, but not QUITE as loud as some songs need. A headphone like the Sony MDR-Z1R would be destroyed by the Cayin, but i feel the Susvara brings it to its knees at 95% of what i need for some songs. BUT ... I accept it for being exceptional. When i use the medium / high gain it just brings that distrotion a little sooner. I prerfer "low". I found this was true with both the Gustard R26 and Holo May DAC both with max volume. I was also advised to put the Cayin to max, and use a lower volume on the Gustard. For me, its a very close run "nearly" - But with true fluidity and lifelike presentation - its stunning.

Did you ever get the chance to compare the Cayin 300B mkii with the HA-6A?

 

[jonchard]

Did you ever get the chance to compare the Cayin 300B mkii with the HA-6A?

No, i Jumped both feet straight in at Cayin 300b mkII after having a hybrid pathos headphone amp. The pathos could drive the Sony MDR-Z1r to brain splitting levels with its 1.5W. I prefered the Pathos to the HPA4 which i had prior. Pathos sounded unbelievably crap with the Susvara and the Susvara made it suffer into distrotion before it could drive it to much more than the half needed volume. It crushed it to death. I dont know why people think Susvara is easy to drive, it just isnt! Or maybe i need more pleasing than most The Cayin is class, but i just wish i could have 10-20% more volume without it sounding on the edge with susvara. I oculdnt go back from tubes - the realness this amp provides is uncanny almost spooky.

 

[Sand Dan Glokta]

Thx everyone for the replies. I thought this of the cayin, wonderful sound but not capable of extreme loud always. I was close to buy the cayin preamp, i dont remember its name but it seems really good, and i planned to pair it with the burson gt. But i think my burson is impressive enough for let me waiting a couple of years more while i save for a big league tube amp with tons of power. I wonder if Envy is more powerful than the HA 300. The upper level is really expensive.
And its nice to find someone who understand that i like it loud, and doesn t warn me about my ears care.
Susvara when very loud are an adiction.

 

[Leto Dal]

No, i Jumped both feet straight in at Cayin 300b mkII after having a hybrid pathos headphone amp. The pathos could drive the Sony MDR-Z1r to brain splitting levels with its 1.5W. I prefered the Pathos to the HPA4 which i had prior. Pathos sounded unbelievably crap with the Susvara and the Susvara made it suffer into distrotion before it could drive it to much more than the half needed volume. It crushed it to death. I dont know why people think Susvara is easy to drive, it just isnt! Or maybe i need more pleasing than most The Cayin is class, but i just wish i could have 10-20% more volume without it sounding on the edge with susvara. I oculdnt go back from tubes - the realness this amp provides is uncanny almost spooky.

Wondering how good the stock tubes are on Ha-300 mk2? Did you compare?

I can max out Bliss with Sus but usually stay around +5-6 without going to max, guess it could be used as preamp for Ha-300

 

[up late]

Hi, im new into this thread. I bought susvara open box in august directly from hifiman, i live in spain. No taxes, so i asume they came from poland. After two months of use, the right driver died, but i had no problem with hifiman with the replacement. I had to pay 40 € of the shipping but its not a big problem in a 4000€ headphones. Talking about amps i have a topping a 90 which is 8w and a burson 3x gt which is 20w. 4 and 10 for channel. I heard a lot of people who claims a90 is good enough for the susvara, but it isnt. The only thing you get is resolution, and a decent stage from left to right. No bass, less than average slam and zero deepth. Even sound clipping when it become to get thrill, i mean not enough power, and not enough quality compared with a clase a amp. In the other hand, the burson with 10 wats per channel of clase a power, can give you a lot more volume, a lot more bass, better slam, a quite good sense of depth and the same resolution. But i think even the 10w per channel gt, isnt enough for susvara to shine. Its a very enjoyable combo but i got arya v2 which is more sensitive and you understand why people talk about how big planars scale with the power. Arya v2 with burson has a huge soundstage with a brutal bass (they were suposed to be bright ) and a brutal slam. Of course in resolution susvara play in another league. So i asume that susvara can reach that soundstage and that bass and slam putting in it more watts than the 10xchannel. I like to listen very loud because its when soundstage expands and everything gets as big as in real life. So i have a question for you. Feliks envy and cayin ha300 have enough power to drive the susvara ultra loud even in quiet recorded music? Or i have to think in bigger guys like Primavera, ef1000 and aic10???
Of course im talking of 4 and 10w at 8ohms, and envy and cayin work in a different way, so thats why i ask.

are you referring to the burson audio soloist 3x grand tourer? what do you mean by '20w. 4 and 10 for channel'? the 3x gt outputs a maximum of 10 watts into a 16 ohm load balanced and 5 watts into the same load single ended. i assume that its output into the susvara's 60 ohm load would be significantly less.