[draytonklammer]

so do I understand correctly that you would elevate the AHB2 and LA90D ABOVE all those other headphone amps for the Susvara? If yes, although I understand it, it definitely dismantles my perceptions to date.

Me, personally? Yes, this is my preference with cost as no object.
That being said, my preference isn't gospel.
Some people prefer gear with added harmonic distortion, or other alterations that sound preferable for their enjoyment.

What leads others to sell the Susvara and then rethink that decision?

I'd bet that most of your responses to this question will be chains and gear.
BUT, the truth in some situations and part of my own truth is that I sold it because it was great at everything and not excellent at something.
The lack of "party tricks" offput me, especially earlier on in my journey.
Now, I have come to realize that the Susvara is tuned very well and performs quite well technically, as well.

Is it perfect? No.
One must also consider HRTF, among other concepts, to understand that not everyone will enjoy it the same way.
For some folks, maybe they require less ear gain to hear a neutral sound.
For some folks, they may dislike too much treble. Perhaps the lack of a bass shelf bothered some people, too.

Another question; you don't trust the LA90D because of the power output, right? I ask because the AHB2 has far greater power, no?

While the AHB2 provides approximately twice the power, this doesn't really translate into much. 3dB at full tilt, even for headroom, is irrelevant to me.
The reason I don't trust the LA90D is because I do not trust Topping. Their devices perform and measure well, but they are often riddled with flaws, or waiting to fail.
Will I buy another one if it fails? Maybe. Will I go back to my AHB2? Maybe.

When looking at the performance of the LA90D, it has a flatter frequency response in the range of human hearing.
For some folks, the AHB2 might actually be preferable, due to the slightly rolled-off treble.
In my case, I prefer to know that my gear isn't coloring my transducers in any way.
If I want to change the sound of a well-performing driver, I will use PEQ, or other digital jazz.

 

[nikkosjf]

Great, thanks for the detailed reply, I see now, I think, what your approach is.

Regarding the Susvara's lack of party tricks, yes that's another good one, I felt that too. Also her being great at everything but not exceptional at anything. And all these reasons led me to theorise that maybe my chain was to blame. So I sold the Susvara as I was not willing altho time to change my chain. Then a local dealer whose knowledge and advice I truly value said it's my DAC. So, I changed my DAC and every headphone I am fortunate enough to have jumped into another dimension of enjoyment.That's when the Susvara came back into my mind and heart. And then I started wondering if I have the right amp, and so on....

 

[OCC7N]

DACs these days are already exceptionally good and only provide flavors rather than sheer improvements. They’re more into fine tuning the sound unlike amps where macro changes are more apparent than DACs

Which leads to my matrix escape, why are Hifiman not using/releasing anything else than R2R? - R2R is and will always be the way to experience the beautiful holographic/3D of the wide range of Hifiman headphones. Texture and black background is phenomenal which makes the experience more real instead of trying to hunt few extra distracting details between 12khz-20Khz.

 

[theveterans]

Which leads to my matrix escape, why are Hifiman not using/releasing anything else than R2R? - R2R is and will always be the way to experience the beautiful holographic/3D of the wide range of Hifiman headphones. Texture and black background is phenomenal which makes the experience more real instead of trying to hunt few extra distracting details between 12khz-20Khz.

Hifiman is clearly targeting a DAC flavor that provides those traits. Not everyone who owns the Susvara wants that. Some wants the sheer incisiveness on top of the holographic soundstage and the addition of the natural texture so they go for Chord Dave with M-Scaler.

Some prioritize extremely huge staging with R2R incisiveness and huge Slam in the low frequencies so they go for Rockna Wavedream

Others prefer a simpler, less incisive, concise presentation so they go for a more classic R2R sound such as from Hifiman and Schiit Yggdrasil+ LIM.

 

[Articnoise]

They don't sound the same, but they sound far closer than HE1000se and Susvara. HE1000se is never going to kick in the bass regardless of the chain. Maybe we're having different experiences due to silent revisions?

HE1000se is the headphone that sounds closest to Susvara. OG HE6 sound very different to Susvara.

 

[OCC7N]

Hifiman is clearly targeting a DAC flavor that provides those traits. Not everyone who owns the Susvara wants that. Some wants the sheer incisiveness on top of the holographic soundstage and the addition of the natural texture so they go for Chord Dave with M-Scaler.

Some prioritize extremely huge staging with R2R incisiveness and huge Slam in the low frequencies so they go for Rockna Wavedream

Others prefer a simpler, less incisive, concise presentation so they go for a more classic R2R sound such as from Hifiman and Schiit Yggdrasil+ LIM.

Of course it is complicated because we are in the heavyweight league in the technicalities, when it comes to Susvara. -If we put the amp talk away for a minute - and I have to be specific and 100% about DACs: Because it is most important priority to achieve the potential of Susvara.

There can only be one "kind" of DAC for Susvara and I am not saying it should be R2R. However this endgame DAC choice, has such a technicality that other headphone in the cheaper/lighter league, will be exposed to their weak side, because the DAC is so technical.

That is one of the main problems: the DACs are too well-performing in general, especially with deltasigmas. Some headphones actually needs less-performing DACs to shine and show their potential.

This is the "problem" with Susvara there are no DACs that can really outperform it vs other headphones.

 

[theveterans]

That is one of the main problems: the DACs are too well-performing in general, especially with deltasigmas. Some headphones actually needs less-performing DACs to shine and show their potential.

This is the "problem" with Susvara there are no DACs that can really outperform it vs other headphones.

I beg to differ that you want as resolute of a DAC you want with the Susvara and find the amp that will cater the DACs resolution as well as drive Susvara to its fullest. I think Susvara is just showing an amps weaknesses rather than DACs since DACs are already resolving enough these days hence all the talk is about maximizing amp combo for Susvara that can reveal both DAC and amp synergy

 

[newToAudio100]

Of course it is complicated because we are in the heavyweight league in the technicalities, when it comes to Susvara. -If we put the amp talk away for a minute - and I have to be specific and 100% about DACs: Because it is most important priority to achieve the potential of Susvara.

There can only be one "kind" of DAC for Susvara and I am not saying it should be R2R. However this endgame DAC choice, has such a technicality that other headphone in the cheaper/lighter league, will be exposed to their weak side, because the DAC is so technical.

That is one of the main problems: the DACs are too well-performing in general, especially with deltasigmas. Some headphones actually needs less-performing DACs to shine and show their potential.

This is the "problem" with Susvara there are no DACs that can really outperform it vs other headphones.

T+A dac 200 is amazing with susvara and all other gear. Huge upgrade from yggy og a2.

 

[OCC7N]

I beg to differ that you want as resolute of a DAC you want with the Susvara and find the amp that will cater the DACs resolution as well as drive Susvara to its fullest. I think Susvara is just showing an amps weaknesses rather than DACs since DACs are already resolving enough these days hence all the talk is about maximizing amp combo for Susvara that can reveal both DAC and amp synergy

Good luck on that.

EDIT:You have not understood the point.

 

[OCC7N]

Wrong responds

 

[1Audiophool]

…yeesh!!! Nothing puts the kibosh on a good conversation like dogmatic views. It is a subjective hobby after all…

To say “there can only be one “kind” of DAC for Susvara…” and “DACs: Because it is most important priority to achieve the potential of Susvara.”… is missing the point that we’re not all on the same trajectory with the same goals or preferences.
Let alone, that we’re going to agree that Dacs being too technical or well performing is the/an issue. Implementation in Dac chips and system synergies are still at play as are personal preference. IMO

 

[Spawn300Z]

…yeesh!!! Nothing puts the kibosh on a good conversation like dogmatic views. It is a subjective hobby after all…

To say “there can only be one “kind” of DAC for Susvara…” and “DACs: Because it is most important priority to achieve the potential of Susvara.”… is missing the point that we’re not all on the same trajectory with the same goals or preferences.
Let alone, that we’re going to agree that Dacs being too technical or well performing is the/an issue. Implementation in Dac chips and system synergies are still at play as are personal preference. IMO

I took that as mean that the DAC must be highly Technical. So that it highlights the Susvaras capabilities and expose the inadequacies off lower tier headphones.

He actually says he’s not saying it’s R2R.

 

[abase21]

I'm a believer in power amps for Susvara - I have two spl performer s800 to drive it (had this two for my 2chanel setup)
I have bought the Holo Audio Bliss for Susvara, after a few weeks I switch back to the power amps...
The Sound with the Power Amps is fuller, tighter and more resolving und you have enough headroom for HQPlayer (DSD upsampling) and so on.

 

[Cirrus Socrates Particl]

I'm a believer in power amps for Susvara - I have two spl performer s800 to drive it (had this two for my 2chanel setup)
I have bought the Holo Audio Bliss for Susvara, after a few weeks I switch back to the power amps...
The Sound with the Power Amps is fuller, tighter and more resolving und you have enough headroom for HQPlayer (DSD upsampling) and so on.

You are driving Susvara with two power amps, but how about driving it with one? Is it not enough compared to two amps?

 

[1Audiophool]

I took that as mean that the DAC must be highly Technical. So that it highlights the Susvaras capabilities and expose the inadequacies off lower tier headphones.

He actually says he’s not saying it’s R2R.

I got that about a dac and the Susvara. Sorry I wasn’t very clear what I meant l. I mean I don’t agree with a dac being too “technical” for lower tier headphones.
I currently have the May which is the most “technical”, resolving dac I’ve had and I can’t say it’s made any of my headphones sound worse than say the Bifrost2 or SMSL dacs I’ve had.

Of course gear only scales so far till it reaches its performance plateau but this notion implies that a lower tier headphone will actually start sounding worse if a dac is too “well performing”. I haven’t experienced this.

I have had combos that didn’t synergize well but I think that is what it comes down to….synergies.
Just my opinion of course