[Bonesy Jonesy]

You need to include the Riviera AIC-10 in this discussion. This amp make everything sound magical. IMHO

And the Hifiman EF1000.....the supreme TOTL Amp for the Susvara !

 

[Ethereal Sound]

the thing i wish is sus has a little more oomph and impact to the bass region but still maintain sus's chracteristic , i don't know if the ultra high end amp can deliver better bass than the holo bliss kte. listen sus on bliss + may combo+ hqplayer i always feel the bass is not sastified to my preference. what amp under 10k better than the bliss? is the woo wa33?

If you can swing it, just apply a low bass shelf via eq. The susvara respond extremely well to eq. When I'm feeling like more bass, I add a 5db low shelf and there's no distortion that I can perceive.

 

[jlemaster1957]

If you can swing it, just apply a low bass shelf via eq. The susvara respond extremely well to eq. When I'm feeling like more bass, I add a 5db low shelf and there's no distortion that I can perceive.

I have tried this as well. I agree that the Susvaras ‘take’ EQ fine. To my ears, there is a slight trade-off in bass texture and to me it seems that this reflects up into the lower mids. In the end I keep going back to no EQ, but that’s on my chain (Yggdrasil OG-> Burson 3XGT), YMMV.

 

[jlemaster1957]

Tonight also I spent a bit of time comparing Arya V2 (pre-stealth) to Susvara on my home chain (see above). I know it’s not a fair comparison but I’m getting ready to travel and wanted to see if it would make sense to take Arya along. After all Arya V2 has been reputed to have a huge head stage but I hadn’t compared them as I dont listen to Arya much since getting the Sus.

Indeed I found that Arya has good width and depth to stage, and takes EQ well in the bass region (better than does Susvara imo, as it has less to lose) adding significant impact and ‘rumble’ but overall the accuracy of imaging esp image definition and placement in Arya is <<< Susvara. Tonality in Arya also sounds less natural/realistic to me. Overall, while Susvara is much better on those counts, I had to admit that I was still glad I had the Arya V2 - with the benefits of that extra EQ (+ 1.5 DB bass shelf from 800 Hz down) and its spacious head stage— and as it is so much easier to drive, it will probably get to come on the road with me.

 

[linshu1992]

the thing i wish is sus has a little more oomph and impact to the bass region but still maintain sus's chracteristic , i don't know if the ultra high end amp can deliver better bass than the holo bliss kte. listen sus on bliss + may combo+ hqplayer i always feel the bass is not sastified to my preference. what amp under 10k better than the bliss? is the woo wa33?

Thanks for the replies. I'm definitely looking for an amp upgrade, but reading a good chunk of this thread has left me conflicted and disillusioned as to what would work best for me.

The only higher point of reference I have is an Oor (without Hypsos), which didn't sound much better than my Jot2 (although mine is EQ'd, demo was not). My budget constraint is preferably <$4-6k, but my primary constraint is idle power consumption of about 50W. My listening area is small and I already have to use a quiet 120mm computer fan cooling my Jot2 (25W) setup to keep the area from getting too hot during the summer. Turn on too many amps, and I have to turn on a standing fan – it's about ~48dB @600Hz-1500Hz white noise, according to FFT sample. Then I'm really ruining the open back listening experience.

Envy sounds really nice, but 110W sounds like I'd either be sweating or drowning out my mids in white noise.

That limits me to Oor+Hypsos or Bliss, at least from the spec sheets I can find on "bigger" amps. Any suggestions on either of those, or another lower consumption amp that still sounds good on Sus?

ok this is totally not scientific and may even be very off, but just offering my own experience as a reference point. I heard many of those at the show floor and I have no idea what pre-amp or dac they used. Take this with a grain of salt. Here are my list of notable amps I tried susvara on, compared to some baselines:

- ahb2 (you need a preamp, quite a lot more power, also the only speaker amp I heard)
- aic-10 (quite a lot more)
- viva 845 (quite a lot more)
- masskobo 465 (somewhat more)
- hm1 (somewhat more)
- cfa3, dukei build (somewhat more)
- envy (a little more)
- red october (a little more)

Baselines: decent but similar level of power (maybe a little more, maybe a little less)
- holo bliss
- nautilus
- wa33 se
- dcs lina
- enleum 23r
- ha-300mk2

23r and ha-300mk2 both have a very different signature that I'm not quite sure how to rate their power.

ahb2, aic-10 and viva 845 are the only ones that made me instantly recognize the "susvara on steroids" sound. The body, the stage, the oomph, the imaging. Even just something in the tuning.. there's a sense of "saturation" in every note that's very distinct. You can feel the sub bass. The other amps are different kinds of awesomeness but they all feel just a little flat. There's no magic of notes really "popping up".

Or, if you want a sound signature that's close to susvara but with more decisiveness, you should look at Tungsten. Even harder to drive than Susvara though.

 

[briantrinh86]

ok this is totally not scientific and may even be very off, but just offering my own experience as a reference point. I heard many of those at the show floor and I have no idea what pre-amp or dac they used. Take this with a grain of salt. Here are my list of notable amps I tried susvara on, compared to some baselines:

- ahb2 (you need a preamp, quite a lot more power, also the only speaker amp I heard)
- aic-10 (quite a lot more)
- viva 845 (quite a lot more)
- masskobo 465 (somewhat more)
- hm1 (somewhat more)
- cfa3, dukei build (somewhat more)
- envy (a little more)
- red october (a little more)

Baselines: decent but similar level of power (maybe a little more, maybe a little less)
- holo bliss
- nautilus
- wa33 se
- dcs lina
- enleum 23r
- ha-300mk2

23r and ha-300mk2 both have a very different signature that I'm not quite sure how to rate their power.

ahb2, aic-10 and viva 845 are the only ones that made me instantly recognize the "susvara on steroids" sound. The body, the stage, the oomph, the imaging. Even just something in the tuning.. there's a sense of "saturation" in every note that's very distinct. You can feel the sub bass. The other amps are different kinds of awesomeness but they all feel just a little flat. There's no magic of notes really "popping up".

Or, if you want a sound signature that's close to susvara but with more decisiveness, you should look at Tungsten. Even harder to drive than Susvara though.

what amps above gave u the most wow moment when u heard with sus?

 

[linshu1992]

what amps above gave u the most wow moment when u heard with sus?

It's all comparative. But the first revelation was when I connected WA33 as a pre-amp to ahb2 to susvara. It was a day and night difference. The soundstage becomes much bigger, notes become much fuller and the separation was jaw dropping. I thought if this was offered this as an upgrade service to WA33, it can easily be 2x the price tag. (But the difference it makes on other headphones, like 1266, is much smaller.)

From then on, it's just seeing that magic again in different setups. I heard aic-10, viva 845, etc at canjam and I recognize the magic but if you ask me what's the difference between those, I can't articulate. Maybe it's just my ears but I tend to notice the soundstage, body, separation, sub bass more than other subtleties.

What I can speak with a bit more details is my own upgrade path:
1. WA33 -> WA33 + ahb2: Much wider soundstage, more body, much fuller sound, much better separation. Stronger slam. Sub bass is immediately noticeable. No change in tuning. Much more prominent details because as sound becomes fuller, you just tend to notice more things.
2. WA33 + ahb2 -> WA33 + 2 ahb2s: it's overdriving the susvara a little bit. The energy feels overwhelming in that notes are so loud and bright they lose some subtlety, and treble, mids, bass all bleed into other frequencies a little bit. Some intricacies get lost. Also, the noise floor becomes a little noticeable (very subtle, but noticeable, could be my tubes). I didn't like this chain.
3. WA33 + ahb2 -> Primaluna evo 400 pre + 2 ahb2: the tubes I use on evo 400 add a tiny bit of gold sheen to the music, with very prominent details in mids and treble. In comparison, WA33 + ahb2 offers a bit darker, softer sound, and the details are not as prominent in mids or treble.

I also tried evo 400 pre + ahb2 but it has a tiny bit smaller soundstage than wa33 + ahb2.

A few of my take aways:
1. The total power you get is related to the power of pre-amp and power of amp. If you use powerful amps like wa33 or envy as preamp, you probably won't need 2 ahb2s (my guess).
2. When you have enough power on Susvara, synergy becomes a lot more delicate, because every combo gives you a lot of soundstage, body, details, etc, but because everything is "emphasized" to the fullest, if the tuning is even slightly off, it can easily overshoot and become annoying.
3. I found it a simpler solution to just reduce my decision scope. Pick ahb2, the most transparent amp i know, and focus on finding a good pre-amp. ahb2 will supercharge whatever tuning, color, secret sauce the pre-amp has, and I won't need to worry about bad synergy between pre-amp and amp.

I wrote a bit more about WA33, AHB2, CFA3 in this post too. Hope it is helpful.

 

[audionewbie123]

ahb2 will supercharge whatever tuning, color, secret sauce the pre-amp has, and I won't need to worry about bad synergy between pre-amp and amp.

I did something very similar and used chord hugo TT2 as a DAC and preamp to my auris headonia. Massive soundstage , detail.

Compared to just using TT2 as a amp i lose everything. Feels like i m a small box. But adding headonia as a final amp. I m in a large hall. imaging and seperation is quite obvious and the detail. But the headonia needs a good amount of time to warm up the 2A3 tubes to reach optimal levels.

Next i m waiting for the baltic 4 as a DAC.

 

[theveterans]

Don’t forget the interconnects too. Susvara is sensitive to even on that level. Some interconnects with the same preamp and amp in the chain can overshoot the synergy effect with Susvara’s dynamics which leads to one dimensional sound signature and loss of refinement rather than the delicate balance between tonality, dynamics and refinement of a well optimized system

 

[linshu1992]

Don’t forget the interconnects too. Susvara is sensitive to even on that level. Some interconnects with the same preamp and amp in the chain can overshoot the synergy effect with Susvara’s dynamics which leads to one dimensional sound signature and loss of refinement rather than the delicate balance between tonality, dynamics and refinement of a well optimized system

Nice. I haven't played with interconnnects yet. Using no name cables from amazon nowadays. Maybe one day...

 

[theveterans]

Nice. I haven't played with interconnnects yet. Using no name cables from amazon nowadays. Maybe one day...

You should On those chain combo you’ve tried, all of them can work well if you find the right interconnect for them. I originally thought the Schiit Saga OG 5692 RCA red base preamp + Forge 32/300 was a bit too close on the edge on slam and dynamics that it lost the refinement similar to what you experience with “WA33 + ahb2 -> WA33 + 2 ahb2s” on audioquest pure solid copper plus interconnects until I switched the preamp to headphone amp side with a violectric premium silver plated copper interconnects. Just a simple interconnect swap pretty much removed Susvara’s edge in the dynamics while the nuances are now in-line with every good bit of Susvara’s strengths. Adding a Schiit Saga OG with 5692 RCA red base preamp alone provided a very noticeable improvement across the board and finding the right interconnect combo helped fine tune Susvara’s qualities. You can also fine tune with headphone cables but IMHO, it’s easier to find the right synergy with the interconnect swap/roll

 

[marcus2704]

Its been some years since I owned a Susvara and am considering investing in a headphone to go with my Holo May/Bliss/KTE setup. I have a D8000 Pro which I use as my daily 'WFH' headphone via Hugo 2, and my plan is to move the Holo to a bedroom for more critical listening across a variety of genres. I read that generally the Bliss has good synergy with the Susvara but I wanted to ask this in the Susvara thread to see if anyone can share their experience of this combination? Previous headphones I have owned include the Utopia 2022, Diana TC, Expanse.

 

[briantrinh86]

It's all comparative. But the first revelation was when I connected WA33 as a pre-amp to ahb2 to susvara. It was a day and night difference. The soundstage becomes much bigger, notes become much fuller and the separation was jaw dropping. I thought if this was offered this as an upgrade service to WA33, it can easily be 2x the price tag. (But the difference it makes on other headphones, like 1266, is much smaller.)

From then on, it's just seeing that magic again in different setups. I heard aic-10, viva 845, etc at canjam and I recognize the magic but if you ask me what's the difference between those, I can't articulate. Maybe it's just my ears but I tend to notice the soundstage, body, separation, sub bass more than other subtleties.

What I can speak with a bit more details is my own upgrade path:
1. WA33 -> WA33 + ahb2: Much wider soundstage, more body, much fuller sound, much better separation. Stronger slam. Sub bass is immediately noticeable. No change in tuning. Much more prominent details because as sound becomes fuller, you just tend to notice more things.
2. WA33 + ahb2 -> WA33 + 2 ahb2s: it's overdriving the susvara a little bit. The energy feels overwhelming in that notes are so loud and bright they lose some subtlety, and treble, mids, bass all bleed into other frequencies a little bit. Some intricacies get lost. Also, the noise floor becomes a little noticeable (very subtle, but noticeable, could be my tubes). I didn't like this chain.
3. WA33 + ahb2 -> Primaluna evo 400 pre + 2 ahb2: the tubes I use on evo 400 add a tiny bit of gold sheen to the music, with very prominent details in mids and treble. In comparison, WA33 + ahb2 offers a bit darker, softer sound, and the details are not as prominent in mids or treble.

I also tried evo 400 pre + ahb2 but it has a tiny bit smaller soundstage than wa33 + ahb2.

A few of my take aways:
1. The total power you get is related to the power of pre-amp and power of amp. If you use powerful amps like wa33 or envy as preamp, you probably won't need 2 ahb2s (my guess).
2. When you have enough power on Susvara, synergy becomes a lot more delicate, because every combo gives you a lot of soundstage, body, details, etc, but because everything is "emphasized" to the fullest, if the tuning is even slightly off, it can easily overshoot and become annoying.
3. I found it a simpler solution to just reduce my decision scope. Pick ahb2, the most transparent amp i know, and focus on finding a good pre-amp. ahb2 will supercharge whatever tuning, color, secret sauce the pre-amp has, and I won't need to worry about bad synergy between pre-amp and amp.

I wrote a bit more about WA33, AHB2, CFA3 in this post too. Hope it is helpful.

@linshu1992 Thanks so much for your opinion and suggestions. I appreciate that

 

[squashi]

6-way TOTL shootout; part 1

If you remember my old post, this adds much more detail, with slight ranking changes. All edits to my original post are underlined!

PLEASE READ THIS: this is a "budget" comparison. I have also compared these headphones to a "endgame" Susvara setup for context. My setup doesn't show 1266TC in the best light
I have owned all of these headphones concurrently:
Susvara: stock cable (still best sounding so far...)
Atrium Open: ZMF 2k copper cable, stock perforated lambskin pads
Utopia: Black dragon cable
Bravura: Full electrostatic system with Sonoma m1 energizer/DAC, connected to DAP with coax. POSITION of headset is very important for soundstage and imaging. Placed forward on head!
HE1000SE: stock cable with EQ (Poweramp EQ) it's too bright without EQ to my younger ears; I'm more treble sensitive than most. My EQ adds a tiny bit of bass and tames the highs. Will be referring as HEKSE. EQ/chain also enhances vocal tone to my ear
LCD-5: ZMF 2k copper cable sometimes with EQ (Poweramp EQ), when the result is different I also compare the kilobuck cable viking weave ansuz and with modded amp12exn-s module (no EQ). I prefer no EQ + kilobuck cable! Without cable, I prefer my EQ, which adds a bit of bass, and adds to the 2 dips in upper mids/highs. if you don't want to customize your chain or try EQ, don't get LCD-5 IMO. EQ/chain also enhances vocal tone to my ear

headphone comfort: Since I have a very small head, I don't think my comfort preferences is relevant to most people here. I am just focusing on sound & price

"Glossary"
My ~$3k chain: apple music on dx320 (using internal ROHM DAC to lineout on modded amp12exn-s module) -> iFi 4.4 to xlr cable -> iFi Pro iCan Signature (solid state). Approximating DAC price to other desktop DACs I know it compares to.
My DAP: apple music on dx320 with amp12 (unmodded). Similar to a ~$1k desktop chain. I note when the modded amp12exn-s was used
Susvara ~$20k chain: extended listened to: Tidal/Qobuz -> unknown streamer -> Chord Dave -> AVM A 6.2 ($10k speaker amp) (unknown connecting cables, but easily kilobuck+). Priced at ~$20k since better amp can be had for cheaper, and Dave MSRP is ridiculous. This was an extended listen

I am not doing a ranking here, since I think words are more nuanced. for reference: amazing > great > good > ok > bad. Keep in mind these terms are relative to the headphones I am comparing. Also good/great means between good and great.
money no object winner highlight
$3k chain winner highlight
DAP winner highlight
extra: ~$20k chain (Susvara)


Condensed Visualizations:

My DAP chain, equivalent to ~$1k desktop chain, all cables as listed at top (full description of following ratings are below)

DAP chain	stage size	imaging	resolution (except bass)	bass texture	bass impact	vocal placement	vocal tone	instrument naturalness	MSRP (desktop)	energy
Susvara(for fun)	great	ok	great	bad	bad	varies	great	bad/good	$7k	chill/effortless
LCD-5 no EQ	good + 3D	great/amazing	good/great	great	ok	background	ok/good	great/amazing	$6k	very energetic
LCD-5 EQ'd	good + 3D	great/amazing	good/great	great	ok/good	background	good/great	good/amazing	$6k	very energetic
Utopia	good	good/great	ok/good	good/great	great	background	good/great	bad/amazing	$5.5k	a bit energetic
Atrium	good/great	ok/good	ok	ok/good	good/great	front	great/amazing	good/amazing+	$4k	mostly chill
HEKSE EQ'd	amazing	good/great	good/great	good	great	varies	good	good/great	$3k	a bit chill

Remember: these rating are only relative to each other. Something I find "ok" here is still probably better than most $1k headphones. Also remember that bad/great means it can vary between bad and great.
My ~$3k chain, and Bravura system, all cables as listed at top (full description of following ratings are below)

~$3k chain	stage size	imaging	resolution (except bass)	bass texture	bass impact (sub + mid bass avg)	vocal placement	vocal tone	instrument naturalness	MSRP	energy
Susvara (3k chain not recommended)	great	great	great/amazing	good	ok/good	varies	great	good/amazing	$9k	chill/effortless
Bravura	great/amazing	amazing	amazing+	amazing+	good	front	good	ok/great	$6k	in the middle
LCD-5 no EQ	good + 3D	amazing	great	amazing	good	background	ok/good	great/amazing	$8k	very energetic
LCD-5 EQ'd	good + 3D	amazing	great	amazing	great	background	good/great	good/amazing	$8k	very energetic
Utopia	good	good/great	good	great/amazing	good/amazing	background	good/great	bad/amazing	$7.5k	a bit energetic
Atrium	good/great	ok/good	ok	good	great	front	great/amazing	good/amazing+	$6k	mostly chill
HEKSE EQ'd	amazing	good/great	good/great	good/great	amazing	varies	good	good/great	$5k	a bit chill
1266 TC (3k chain not recommended)	amazing/amazing+ (can vary)	great	amazing	amazing	great/amazing	background	bad (ok with superconductor)	ok/amazing	$9k	in the middle

NOTE: if price is no object, Susvara/TC are undoubtedly the best all rounder from this roundup, please see my extra column from the detailed comparison below.


By category:

stage size/shape (only done with my 3k setup, scales with better chain)	size	shape
Susvara	great	relatively 3d
Bravura	great/amazing variable depending on track (heavy bassy tracks are narrow) (position of headphone was VERY important to me)	relatively 3d (with another position, it wasn't 3D at all, just left/right)
LCD-5	good, but good/great with viking weave ansuz cable	3D stage
Utopia	good	relatively 3d
Atrium	good/great	relatively 3d
HEKSE EQ'd	amazing	goes very left right, but still has nearly the same depth as a Susvara
1266 TC	amazing+ with toe-in/out amazing with no toe-in/out great/amazing if no gap	can vary depending on toe-in/out, can be more front, or more wide/back. relatively 3d with no toe-in/out

imaging (specific placement)	my ~$3k chain/Bravura system	my DAP	extra: ~$20k chain (Susvara)
Susvara(3k chain not recommended)	great	ok	great/amazing
Bravura	amazing (position of headphone was VERY important to me) good/great with different position	<- please try headset placed forward on head, may vary by person (my ears touch pads with this placement, you may not be ok with that)	-
LCD-5	amazing, very pinpoint	great/amazing (modded amp12exn-s module makes it amazing)	-
Utopia	good/great	good/great	-
Atrium	ok/good	ok/good	-
HEKSE EQ'd	good/great	good/great	-
1266 TC(3k chain not recommended)	great	-	-

NOTE: The way I define it, I find "separation" as some abstract combination of resolution, imaging, and stage!

resolution excluding bass (can I hear more details)	my ~$3k chain/Bravura system	my DAP	extra: ~$20k chain (Susvara)
Susvara(3k chain not recommended)	great/amazing	great(incredibly...) (modded amp12exn-s module is great/amazing impressively)	amazing
Bravura	amazing+	-	-
LCD-5	great for both EQ and non-EQ	good/great (modded amp12exn-s module is great/amazing impressively)	-
Utopia	good treble shines	ok/good	-
Atrium	ok remember still great resolution, these rankings are only relative	ok	-
HEKSE EQ'd	good/great this is with EQ, may be higher without EQ. Either way the bright tuning may give impression of more resolution	good/great	-
1266 TC(3k chain not recommended)	amazing	-	-

bass texture/resolution	my ~$3k chain/Bravura system	my DAP	extra: ~$20k chain (Susvara)
Susvara(3k chain not recommended)	good	bad	great/amazing
Bravura	amazing+	-	-
LCD-5	amazing	great (modded amp12 exn-s is great/amazing)	-
Utopia	great/amazing microdynamics! not toptier resolution	good/great	-
Atrium	good decay is great, resolution is not	ok/good	-
HEKSE EQ'd	good/great	good	-
1266 TC(3k chain not recommended)	amazing	-	-

reminder: amazing > great > good > ok > bad. Example: ok/great means it varies between ok and great (can be good as well). Please keep in mind these terms are only relative, an ok rating here might actually be great in an absolute sense

bass impact (I played bass heavy tracks)	my ~$3k chain/Bravura system	my DAP	extra: ~$20k chain (Susvara)
Susvara(3k chain not recommended)	ok/good muddies mids with increased bass, not punchy but can rumble	bad	great. Not punchy but rumbles well.
Bravura	good likes to punch and rumble! But it reaches a limit for subbass heavy tracks. midbass still hits decently! Great for estat!	<- high bass impacts may "shock" the headset, which very slightly "muddies" those milliseconds. This is only at high volume.	-
LCD-5	great with EQ (rumbles and punches hard) good without EQ (good/great with my viking weave cable)	ok/good <- Can suffer without EQ or right chain	-
Utopia	good/amazing. Punchy even when not called for, but can't hit too hard (can clip on extreme tracks)	great <- Doesn't rumble	-
Atrium	great Can hit hard when needed especially in midbass, no rumble	good/great	-
HEKSE EQ'd	amazing somehow rumbles more than any other without sacrificing midrange clarity, slightly punchy	great <- Needs good chain/EQ to make full use of the bass capability	-
1266 TC(3k chain not recommended)	great/amazing. ok rumble (no gap has more rumble), and can adjust punchiness by increasing gap/toe, but very increased toe-in/out dulls sound	-	-

vocal placement	For all chains:
Susvara	usually in the background with instruments, but sometimes brought closer
Bravura	brought up front and very close
LCD-5	in the background with instruments
Utopia	in the background with instruments
Atrium	brought up front and close
HEKSE EQ'd	usually in the background with instruments, but sometimes brought closer
1266 TC	in the background with instruments

vocal naturalness + tone: (I'm being too harsh here)	For all chains:
Susvara	great
Bravura	good (remember this is still great, these ratings are all relative)
LCD-5	good/great with EQ ok/good without EQ (needs EQ or some other chain modifier, viking weave makes it good)
Utopia	good/great
Atrium	great/amazing + lush vocals (may be positive or negative for each song/preference)
HEKSE EQ'd	good needs EQ for good vocal tone IMO, otherwise it's just OK tone
1266 TC	bad with stock cable ok with superconductor (please note: mids are still recessed, but doesn't impact this rating)

REMINDER: I am comparing LCD-5 (without kilobuck cable) and HEKSE with EQ! My implementation of EQ makes both positive and negative differences!

instrument naturalness/realism, (all ranges since it depends on the instrument)	my ~$3k chain/Bravura system	my DAP	extra: ~$20k chain (Susvara)
Susvara(3k chain not recommended)	good/amazing lacking for instruments in the bass spectrum	bad/good sounds weird & lacking bass	great/amazing midrange instruments shine
Bravura	ok/great: instruments have impact and can be realistic, but not always	<- realistic but never fully immersive (might be due to built in DSP?)	-
LCD-5	good/amazing with EQ great/amazing without EQ (viking weave cable improves it as well)	good/amazing with EQ great/amazing no EQ <- drums shine	-
Utopia	bad/amazing metallic: amazing for some instruments, but bad for others	bad/amazing	-
Atrium	good/amazing+, due to long decay it varies a lot for each instrument	good/amazing+	-
HEKSE EQ'd	good/great has impact and realistic but never fully immersive	good/great <- perhaps due to EQ?	-
1266 TC(3k chain not recommended)	ok/amazing realistic but never fully immersive, often feels like something is off	-	-

NOTE: Please remember it's not just about the MSRP, but more importantly depreciation. Cheaply repairable headphones are more valuable...

MSRP	my ~$3k chain/Bravura system	DAP equivalent desktop	extra: ~$20k chain (Susvara)
Susvara	$9k	$7k (please don't do this)	$26k
Bravura	$6k	-	-
LCD-5 (with ZMF cable)	$8k (viking weave cable: $8.5k)	$6k (modded amp12exn-s: $6.5k)	-
Utopia (with black dragon cable)	$7.5k	$5.5k	-
Atrium (with ZMF cable)	$6k	$4k	-
HEKSE EQ'd	$5k	$3k	-
1266 TC	$9k (superconductor: $11k)	-	-

BONUS energy level:
Susvara - chill/effortless: like mac & cheese, smooth and rich, can't stop eating
Bravura - in the middle: like pepperoni pizza, strong flavor but lowkey
LCD-5 - very energetic: like wagyu, amazing but how long can you endure the fattiness
Utopia - a bit energetic: like bacon, nothing crazy but noticeable
Atrium - mostly chill: like grits, mostly smooth but with punch at times
HEKSE EQ'd - chill but can attack: like mac & cheese w/ bacon, not as effortless as base mac & cheese, and at times, a bit sharp
1266 TC - in the middle: like a burger, can adapt to each song

-I have tried my best to be music genre agnostic in this comparison!

still editing parts of this review to add more detail. feel free to read this unorganized garble, but will better word and organize all this following info soon

Spoiler: Editing notes

still editing parts of this review to add more detail. feel free to read this unorganized garble, but will better word and organize all this following info soon
Important notes on my gear: EDITING: I have found AMPs & DACs to be more about matching to Headphone more than "expensive is better". Please note ifi ican is not a very detailed amp (IMO), and has a slight thickness to the sound. The ROHM dacs have a very natural sound that works much better with say Atriums than Utopia. The modded amp12exn-s cleans up the line out significantly as well. On an A/B of LCD-5 with chord dave, the dave was less colored and a bit more detailed sound than the ROHM dac (amp12exn-s line out) I think my ifi ican amp was holding back the dave. Also the amp12exn-s headphone out, is more detailed than the ifi amp. alsowill add I will not be maximising the details. Also I will add A guide on what each part is for each guide! and will add links!
Will also add "sound profile" and sound "thickness". Will also add 1266TC both with and without Superconductor.

 

[thecrow]

Crossposting part 1 of my shootout:

I have owned all of these headphones concurrently:
Susvara: stock cable
Atrium: ZMF OFC cable
Utopia: Black dragon cable
Bravura: Full electrostatic system with Sonoma m1 energizer/DAC, connected to DAP with coax
HEKSE: stock cable with EQ (Poweramp EQ) If you are younger, far too bright without EQ; I can't listen to it without EQ. My EQ adds a tiny bit of bass and tames the highs.
LCD-5: ZMF OFC cable with EQ (Poweramp EQ), when the result is different I also compare the kilobuck cable viking weave ansuz (no EQ). I prefer no EQ + kilobuck cable! Without cable, I prefer my EQ, which adds a bit of bass, and adds to the 2 dips in upper mids/highs. if you don't want to customize your chain or try EQ, don't get LCD-5 IMO.


"Glossary"
My ~$3k chain: apple music on dx320 (using internal ROHM DAC to lineout on modded amp12exn-s module) -> iFi 4.4 to xlr cable -> iFi Pro iCan Signature (solid state). Approximating DAC price to other desktop DACs I know it compares to.
My DAP: apple music on dx320 with modded amp12exn-s (with opamp upgrades). Quite powerful class A amplifier, Similar to a ~$1.5 desktop chain.
Susvara ~$24k chain: extended listened to: Tidal -> unknown streamer -> Chord Dave -> AVM A 6.2 ($10k speaker amp) (unknown connecting cables, but easily kilobuck+)

I am not doing a ranking here, since I think words are more nuanced. for reference: amazing > great > good > ok > bad. Keep in mind these terms are relative to the headphones I am comparing. Also good/great means between good and great. If I don't specify chain, then that rating applies to all chains from DAP to my $3k chain.
money no object winner highlight
$3k chain winner highlight
DAP winner highlight

resolution/separation (excluding bass):
Susvara - amazing+ with a ~$24k chain (dave+speaker amp), great with ~$3k chain, good/great on my DAP (incredibly, but rest of susvara suffers)
Bravura - amazing
LCD-5 (probably a contender for top place will update after trying Chord Dave) - amazing+? with ~$?? chain, great/amazing with my ~$3k chain, good straight from DAP
Utopia - good/great with my ~$3k chain, good on my DAP
Atrium - always ok/good
HEKSE - always good/great

instrument naturalness, most are ranges since it depends on the instrument:
Susvara - great/amazing on $24k chain (mid range shines), good/amazing on my $3k chain (lack bass impact), and ok on DAP due to sounding weird and lacking bass
Bravura - good/great: bass forward instruments won't have impact, realistic but never fully immersive
LCD-5 - good/amazing usually, but great/amazing with my viking weave ansuz cable. Especially drums and other bassy instruments
Utopia - ok/amazing metallic: amazing for some instruments, just ok for most instruments
Atrium - good/amazing, due to long decay it varies a lot for each instrument
HEKSE - good/great has impact and realistic but never fully immersive

vocal texture + tone:
Susvara - great/amazing
Bravura - good realistic but never fully immersive
LCD-5 - good, but great with viking weave ansuz cable. Tone suffers without EQ or proper chain
Utopia - ok/good sometimes metallic
Atrium - great/amazing + lush vocals (may be positive or negative for each song/preference)
HEKSE - good realistic but never fully immersive

vocal placement:
Susvara - usually in the background with instruments, but sometimes brought closer
Bravura - brought up front and close
LCD-5 - in the background with instruments
Utopia - in the background with instruments (but feels upfront due to small stage)
Atrium - brought up front and close
HEKSE - in the background with instruments

stage size:
Susvara - great/amazing
Bravura - good/amazing variable on track (heavy bassy tracks are closer)
LCD-5 - good, but good/great with viking weave ansuz
Utopia - ok/good
Atrium - good/great
HEKSE - amazing

energy level:
Susvara - chill/effortless: like mac and cheese, smooth and rich, can't stop eating
Bravura - in the middle: like pizza, strong but lowkey
LCD-5 - very energetic: like wagyu, amazing but how long can you endure the fattiness
Utopia - energetic: like foie gras, rich, overly fatty
Atrium - mostly chill: like grits, mostly smooth but with punch at times
HEKSE - in the middle: like bacon, nothing crazy but noticeable

imaging:
Susvara - on $24k chain: great/amazing. on $3k chain: great. DAP: ok
Bravura - good/great
LCD-5 - on $3k chain: great/amazing, but incredibly amazing with viking weave ansuz cable. On DAP: good/great
Utopia - on $3k chain: great. DAP: good
Atrium - always ok
HEKSE - always good/great

bass texture/resolution:
Susvara - on $24k chain: great/amazing. on $3k chain: good. on DAP: bad
Bravura - great/amazing
LCD-5 - on $3k chain: amazing On DAP: great
Utopia - on $3k chain: great. DAP: good/great
Atrium - always ok/great: decay is great, resolution is not
HEKSE - always great

bass impact:
Susvara - on $24k chain: great. on $3k chain: ok/good. on DAP: bad
Bravura - ok (great for an estat!) but, depending on volume, very high bass impacts seem to "shock" the headset, which very slightly "muddies" those milliseconds
LCD-5 - on $3k chain: amazing. on DAP: great. Can suffer without EQ or right chain
Utopia - on $3k chain: great/amazing. DAP: great
Atrium - always great
HEKSE - always great

MSRP:
Susvara - on $24k chain: $30k. on $3k chain: $9k. on DAP equivalent desktop: $7.5k
Bravura - full system $6k
LCD-5 - on $3k chain with viking weave ansuz: $8.5k. on $3k chain: $7.5k. On DAP equivalent desktop: $6k
Utopia - on $3k chain: $7k. On DAP equivalent desktop: $5.5k
Atrium - on $3k chain: $5.5k. On DAP equivalent desktop: $4k
HEKSE - on $3k chain: $5k. On DAP equivalent desktop: $3.5k

-I think EQ'd HEKSE is very underrated a bang for buck option (remember not comparing stock HEKSE). I also think Bravura is an amazing all-rounder which is unbeatable for the price!
-I have tried my best to be music genre agnostic in this comparison!

In my part 2 of this review, I will compare all of these headphones in the following genres of music:
vocal heavy pop
"trashy" pop
hiphop
metal
progressive rock
opera
orchestra
classical
choral and a capella
any other genres?

Fantastic and unique post, particularly in its layout - very friendly. Well done.

fwiw having owned the utopia, auteur, hekse and susvara, and having tried them with different level gear, not too much I disagree with
and how i perceive the lcd5 from my own demoing and what i have read here is pretty similar to your views on that too