HiFiMan Susvara
Jul 7, 2023 at 10:32 AM Post #21,691 of 25,628
I don’t think Focal Electra is a fair comparison for a speaker system. I had Focal Sopra 2 few years ago and it didn’t sound musical although super detailed. My current set up with Harbeth 40.2 is way beyond any headphone performance in terms of musicality. I still listen to Susvara occasionally for the extra detail it brings to the table.
Both sets of my Focal Electra Be's are very musical and sound great.
I could have bought the floor standing Focal Utopia's at the time as I listened to both (with the floor standing Electra 1038 Be's) at the same time with the Chord Mezzo 140's (mono blocked) withe the Chord Prima Pre-Amp (which I was also buying at the same time). To my ears the Electra 1038's sounded more musical and entertaining although the Utopia's had super clarity on the verge of being sterile !

What Amp and Source input(s) are you using with your Susvara's ?
 
Jul 7, 2023 at 10:34 AM Post #21,692 of 25,628
I don’t think Focal Electra is a fair comparison for a speaker system. I had Focal Sopra 2 few years ago and it didn’t sound musical although super detailed. My current set up with Harbeth 40.2 is way beyond any headphone performance in terms of musicality. I still listen to Susvara occasionally for the extra detail it brings to the table.
It's all subjective. It's all a matter of what you're into. Loudspeaker systems and headphone systems are just different presentations of the same thing.

After 27 years of buying and selling loudspeaker systems and driving myself crazy about room acoustics and speaker positioning, I had enough so I sold all of that and put all of the funds towards a Susvara based system and I couldn't be happier.

Of all the years listening to the MANY variations of my personal system, attending 6 New York audio shows, Rocky mountain audio fest, Florida audio expo, listening to countless systems of friends, etc., I have never been brought to tears listening to music.
With my Holo electronics and Susvara, it is honestly a regular occurrence.
 
Jul 7, 2023 at 11:00 AM Post #21,693 of 25,628
It's all subjective. It's all a matter of what you're into. Loudspeaker systems and headphone systems are just different presentations of the same thing.

Just different experiences.
Really not comparable to me, I was into 2 Channel for decades, and if I had a good space to do it, I'd go all in on 2 Channel now, but I don't.
When I discovered headphones didn't all suck a few years ago, it opened a different listening experience.
Headphones are also way more convenient to listen to, so I tend to listen more frequently.
 
Jul 7, 2023 at 11:24 AM Post #21,694 of 25,628
Both sets of my Focal Electra Be's are very musical and sound great.
I could have bought the floor standing Focal Utopia's at the time as I listened to both (with the floor standing Electra 1038 Be's) at the same time with the Chord Mezzo 140's (mono blocked) withe the Chord Prima Pre-Amp (which I was also buying at the same time). To my ears the Electra 1038's sounded more musical and entertaining although the Utopia's had super clarity on the verge of being sterile !

What Amp and Source input(s) are you using with your Susvara's ?

I listened to Susvara on top end systems extensively at Canjam.

At home I have Dave+Mscaler with top notch CD players, streamers and I use various speaker amps to drive it (Benchmark, Bakoon, Hegel, NAD).

I have no problem driving the headphone and it sounds great!

However, it’s a matter of physics. A headphone doesn’t have the body and impact of a good loudspeaker IMO.
 
Jul 7, 2023 at 11:28 AM Post #21,695 of 25,628
I listened to Susvara on top end systems extensively at Canjam.

At home I have Dave+Mscaler with top notch CD players, streamers and I use various speaker amps to drive it (Benchmark, Bakoon, Hegel, NAD).

I have no problem driving the headphone and it sounds great!

However, it’s a matter of physics. A headphone doesn’t have the body and impact of a good loudspeaker IMO.
Not sure I agree with that.
The woofers of a loudspeaker have to energize an entire room.
The drivers of a headphone have to energize the space between the drivers and your ears.
Again, it's just a different presentation.
 
Jul 7, 2023 at 11:30 AM Post #21,696 of 25,628
It's all subjective. It's all a matter of what you're into. Loudspeaker systems and headphone systems are just different presentations of the same thing.

After 27 years of buying and selling loudspeaker systems and driving myself crazy about room acoustics and speaker positioning, I had enough so I sold all of that and put all of the funds towards a Susvara based system and I couldn't be happier.

Of all the years listening to the MANY variations of my personal system, attending 6 New York audio shows, Rocky mountain audio fest, Florida audio expo, listening to countless systems of friends, etc., I have never been brought to tears listening to music.
With my Holo electronics and Susvara, it is honestly a regular occurrence.

I think loudspeakers are closer to a concert experience than headphones. Again, I enjoy both.
 
Jul 7, 2023 at 11:32 AM Post #21,697 of 25,628
Not sure I agree with that.
The woofers of a loudspeaker have to energize an entire room.
The drivers of a headphone have to energize the space between the drivers and your ears.
Again, it's just a different presentation.
That’s exactly what I’m trying to say :)

The speakers have a larger space to energize between the drivers and the ears. The experience is more true to life.
 
Jul 7, 2023 at 11:35 AM Post #21,698 of 25,628
I highly recommend you get the CA1a one too, especially since you have VM1a on the way. It might change your opinion 😁
You need to introduce Joe to the mighty Elrog.
 
Jul 7, 2023 at 11:47 AM Post #21,699 of 25,628
That’s exactly what I’m trying to say :)

The speakers have a larger space to energize between the drivers and the ears. The experience is more true to life.
Ok. I was just saying that the body and impact that I get from my Susvara is more enjoyable than a 2 channel loudspeaker system. Because of the space needed to energize, getting an enjoyable level of body and impact is easier than getting the same level of enjoyment from a two-channel loudspeaker system... For me, anyway.
 
Jul 7, 2023 at 11:59 AM Post #21,700 of 25,628
Ok. I was just saying that the body and impact that I get from my Susvara is more enjoyable than a 2 channel loudspeaker system. Because of the space needed to energize, getting an enjoyable level of body and impact is easier than getting the same level of enjoyment from a two-channel loudspeaker system... For me, anyway.

You’re right! It’s way easier on headphones, but when a speaker system is done right (which is not easy) it sounds magical.
 
Jul 7, 2023 at 3:32 PM Post #21,701 of 25,628
You’re right! It’s way easier on headphones, but when a speaker system is done right (which is not easy) it sounds magical.
So does a headphone system sound magical when it is done right....I'm listening to one such headphone system now and I am at the concert hall listening to the great violinist 'Heifetz' playing Bruch's 'Scottish Fantasy' on the 'Living Voice' / 'RCA Victor Red Seal' label from an LP and from a SACD....that is magical !
 
Jul 7, 2023 at 5:29 PM Post #21,702 of 25,628
Jul 7, 2023 at 5:30 PM Post #21,703 of 25,628
Jul 7, 2023 at 5:45 PM Post #21,704 of 25,628
Jul 7, 2023 at 6:03 PM Post #21,705 of 25,628
I think a headphone system can simulate the concert hall experience very well, but it will always fall somewhat short in that regard when compared in performance to a well tuned 2-channel or multi-channel speaker system, assuming we can take the quality or "perfection" of both systems for granted. Similarly, or conversely, speaker systems can produce fantastic, and often magical, feats in refined detail retrieval but they cannot reproduce the sense of intimate and immediate sensory connection with those details within their soundscapes in the same way that an equally good headphone system is capable of, again assuming we can take the perfection of tuning in both cases for granted, In other words, I agree with the idea that the two presentations (of speaker-- vs headphone systems) are ultimately and essentially different and should ideally not even be compared.

The essential difference I have in mind lies in the fact that a speaker-system's performance inevitably calls into play a plethora of issues involving room-acoustics, room treatment, and speaker-placement, i.e. issues which a headphone system can typically dispense with for better or for worse. Either way the differences are complex and should not be treated lightly as suggested by this video discussion :



It would be logical, not to mention, easy, to suggest that those seeking a primarily concert-hall-like reproduction of the sonic details and ambience of any particular track should listen to that particular track on a good speaker system in an appropriately tuned room and be done with it, whereas those looking for a more intimate connection with the details of the frequency spectrum within the space that is in and around the head should opt for listening to the track on a good headphone system which will eliminate issues of room acoustics and be done with it. It would be likewise easy to say that seeking speaker system effects while listening to a headphone, or expecting headphone system effects while listening to a speaker system would almost inevitably produce some kind of shortfall that is ultimately unsatisfying, and that both types of expectations should not be encouraged, but whom would I be kidding right?. Given that we are also dealing with human nature in this hobby, it might also be wise to acknowledge that these tendencies of wanting to hear the effect of speakers in headphones, and the effects of headphone listening in speakers cannot always be avoided or prevented, given how all too human the "misplaced" expectations themselves are.

Now with all that being said, If I were to encounter the following question on a pop quiz :

"Who is most likely to gripe at a headphone system for not sounding enough like a speaker system, or at the latter not sounding enough like the former, my answer would be "An audiophile," if by that we mean someone who specializes in pursuing near-impossible accomplishments or feats in the the quest for satisfying experiences in audio enjoyment.

Of course some of the claims here (not all) are made in jest, so don't take everything so seriously. It's just a hobby:):):)

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