[rthomas]

I’m not going to debate the value of measurements.
I use my ears to exclusively determine the quality of a component, the RME is comparable to me to the decent entry level DAC’s, and you’re paying a significant premium for the feature set. If you want the features great, then it’s a good DAC, but for the $1200 version, I’d take a Bifrost 2, Denafrips Aries 2 or a Soekris DAC over it, if it’s the 2K version, I’d take an Yggdrasil.
There is some preference involved, but to me those would be pretty easy choices, and that’s just based on what I’ve personally listened to.

I think the Ferum stack is middling on the Susvara FWIW, it would be on my barely acceptable list, but it’s all relative and lots of people love it.


They’re opinions, they’re worth exactly what you paid for them.
I don’t even know what maximize potential means, higher end stuff tends to sound better, I’ve yet to encounter the point in cost where I don’t think there is a significant difference, and I’ve heard 7 figure vinyl setups in rooms custom built for acoustics, they really are in some cases dramatically better than the $100K setups I’ve heard. Though again there is some preference involved. And those systems are way out of what I can afford.
I could also go back to a HD600 and a SW51 driven by a D10 and still really enjoy the music.
What’s worth it to you I can’t answer, it’s dependent on your situation and how you value things.
Forums generally are a terrible place to get advice, they are full of self reinforcing opinions, none of it’s “factual”, and you have to read them with that in mind.


Yes very much so the subtlety is in the details, but your reading a forum for people who care about these small differences.

Fair enough.

Which is the best amp and DAC combo you’ve heard with the Susvara? If I get a chance to try it , I will do so and report back.

I think you’ll also agree that we’re all more influenced by price and aesthetics of a component than we’d like to admit.

Chord Dave was the ultimate for a season, soon the Chord Ultima DAC will be released probably for close to $20k and there will inevitably be a thread waxing eloquent about how much better it is than the DAVE

 

[Polygonhell]

How many years have you been in the hobby and how long have you owned your current chain?

I started listening to 2 Channel around 1990
Didn't get into headphones until probably 5 or 6 years ago, I have 2 headphone chains, my primary setup Lampizator Pacific into EC Studio T, hasn't changed in probably 12 months, the other one I recently replace an Aqua LaVoce S3 with a Total DAC D1 Unity, but I've had the WA33 for almost 2 years, I'm mostly happy with both, and at this point it's more about opportunity than need/want.

My current favorite headphone is the MySphere 3.1, followed by the Susvara, with the SR-1A/CA-1/Utopia/D8000pro in some order after that and then the 1266 (which I rarely use). The exact order fluctuates somewhat with my mood and listening preferences.

There are still pieces I'd like to hear, but they are more esoteric, harder to find used, harder to demo, or in some cases even difficult to purchase. Top two or three on my list would be a Lampizator Horizon, and a Total DAC D1 Sublime, probably followed by the headphone output on an AC Genus. I'm not convinced I want to pay for any of those though, but listening might change my mind.

 

[rthomas]

I started listening to 2 Channel around 1990
Didn't get into headphones until probably 5 or 6 years ago, I have 2 headphone chains, my primary setup Lampizator Pacific into EC Studio T, hasn't changed in probably 12 months, the other one I recently replace an Aqua LaVoce S3 with a Total DAC D1 Unity, but I've had the WA33 for almost 2 years, I'm mostly happy with both, and at this point it's more about opportunity than need/want.

My current favorite headphone is the MySphere 3.1, followed by the Susvara, with the SR-1A/CA-1/Utopia/D8000pro in some order after that and then the 1266 (which I rarely use). The exact order fluctuates somewhat with my mood and listening preferences.

There are still pieces I'd like to hear, but they are more esoteric, harder to find used, harder to demo, or in some cases even difficult to purchase. Top two or three on my list would be a Lampizator Horizon, and a Total DAC D1 Sublime, probably followed by the headphone output on an AC Genus. I'm not convinced I want to pay for any of those though, but listening might change my mind.

I’ve seen breakdowns of the internals of Lampizator DACs by competent and knowledgeable people. Not exactly high quality to put it politely. Impressive casework and marketing and even more impressive prices.

Also if you believe that we need €20000 to €50000 TotalDac products for the fairly simple problem of digital to analog conversion then our thoughts about audio gear will likely never align.

Let’s agree to disagree and move on from this discussion. Thanks for your input

 

[Polygonhell]

Which is the best amp and DAC combo you’ve heard with the Susvara? If I get a chance to try it , I will do so and report back.

I'm not sure I like the term Best.
I use mine off a Total DAC D1 Unity into a WA33 with a KR RK Special Edition 5U4G Regulator and PSVane Acme's, I also think the Lampizator Pacific into the WA33 is better for my tastes, but they aren't comparably priced, and I tend to prefer to listen to the MySphere's much of the time.
The WA33 also isn't for everyone, it's signature is very polarizing, it happens to align with my preferences where I value dynamics, timbre, spatial presentation and resolution over other qualities that people tend to look for in tube amps.

 

[chesebert]

I started listening to 2 Channel around 1990
Didn't get into headphones until probably 5 or 6 years ago, I have 2 headphone chains, my primary setup Lampizator Pacific into EC Studio T, hasn't changed in probably 12 months, the other one I recently replace an Aqua LaVoce S3 with a Total DAC D1 Unity, but I've had the WA33 for almost 2 years, I'm mostly happy with both, and at this point it's more about opportunity than need/want.

My current favorite headphone is the MySphere 3.1, followed by the Susvara, with the SR-1A/CA-1/Utopia/D8000pro in some order after that and then the 1266 (which I rarely use). The exact order fluctuates somewhat with my mood and listening preferences.

There are still pieces I'd like to hear, but they are more esoteric, harder to find used, harder to demo, or in some cases even difficult to purchase. Top two or three on my list would be a Lampizator Horizon, and a Total DAC D1 Sublime, probably followed by the headphone output on an AC Genus. I'm not convinced I want to pay for any of those though, but listening might change my mind.

Looks like you have good pieces individually. I don’t think your chain is maxing out any of your planar TBH. specifically talking about sus, I would opt for a solid state with good control. You have high distortion dac going to a high distortion amp driving high distortion headphones. At some point when your entire chain is high distortion you will only get a fraction of the full resolution offered by CD.

 

[Polygonhell]

Looks like you have good pieces individually. I don’t think your chain is maxing out any of your planar TBH. specifically talking about sus, I would opt for a solid state with good control. You have high distortion dac going to a high distortion amp driving high distortion headphones. At some point when your entire chain is high distortion you will only get a fraction of the full resolution offered by CD.

I have absolutely no interest in a SS amp at this point, though if I heard one that I liked I'd consider it.
I'm all in on tubes at this point, I've done the SS thing when I started in 2 Channel and later when i started in headphones, and gross generalization it just doesn't do it for me.

High distortion is all relative, without looking I doubt any of those pieces are worse than 0.1% THD at the volumes I listen (and probably significantly better than that), so their total distortion is dwarfed by the THD of the headphone driver. But I started in Hifi when 1% THD was considered good and 0.1 was exceptional in the end it's just a number.

I only listen to the Susvara on the WA33/TotalDAC system, the Studio T gets them loud, but it isn't a great match, it does better with the 1266, but it's not ideal there either.

I've had a lot of variety in the system over time, I owned a Chord Dave, I've listened to EMM, MSB and DCS DAC's, there is a huge amount of preference in high end gear, I replaced the LaVoce with the totalDAC, because I felt to former could be too clinical with the WA33.

 

[Malcyg]

Both the Susvara and Utopia are picky about what's driving them in different ways, the Utopia can come across aggressively sharp on the wrong chain, the Susvara can come accross bland on the wrong chain. And IMO the best chains for both headphones are very different to each other.

This is spot on and the crux of the majority of debate and argument on here imo. That and the fact that people have different taste, different ears and listen to different music. If people could be more accepting of this, then the forum would be far less littered with meaningless arguments back and forth about what’s ‘Best’. In fairness though, this is something that has to be learned over time with experience and not everyone gets the chance to try out a lot of different gear.

My own focus has always been on my stereo system but gradually, over the years, I have progressively used phones more and more. HD800 were the first pair of good phones that I bought, an upgrade from my old HD 650, and I loved them at first. Then I moved on (up?) to HE-1000 SE which I thought were great out of my Blu Dave which was my main DAC at the time. They weren’t perfect though for me so I upgraded (?) again to Susvara which sounded great in store, but were quite disappointing back home out of the Dave and not as good as HE-1000 had been. That was my first lesson in system synergy and the fact that highly regarded phones may not always sound as you might hope/expect - and it started me on a bit of a journey to figure out how to get the best out of Susvara. In the meantime, I bought a pair of Utopia because they sounded good in store and were the very opposite of Susvara in that they were ‘easy to drive’. But out of the Dave, they were fatiguing and uncomfortable to my ears being hard, sharp edged and they pummelled my ears like a pneumatic road drill. Lesson two learned and my headphone naïveté was being stripped away. Good phones will not sound good out of everything - and I was still yet to learn that even a top end chain will not make all phones sound good.

Several years on and both now sound fantastic - but only when connected to the right chain. Equally, I can make both sound as depicted above by @Polygonhell. If people used the word ‘preferred’ instead of ‘best and better’, things would be a lot easier and threads generally more interesting. There are a lot of people on here with very good knowledge and experience that we can learn from, but I often glaze over or even give up in frustration in threads where people argue back and forth over what’s ‘best’.

When correctly driven, I think that Susvara are probably technically the best all round phones of the 7 (ashamed to admit) TOTL sets that I own, but 1266 Phi TC and SolP are both more fun to use and less picky about the chain and, consequently, a lot more versatile - especially SolP which I have yet to make sound less than good. How does that factor in to a what’s best conversation? If I had to, I could cull my phones down to Utopia, SolP and 1266 and cover pretty much all my bases, but that would mean letting go of what I consider to be technically my ‘Best’ phones. I would also be able to let go the amp that I use exclusively with Susvara, which would free up a shelf in my main rack. So I do consider it from time to time, and then I put Susvara on for a session and end up thinking ‘no, not yet’!

The best bit of advice I would offer to anyone is that, when you find a combination that you love and enjoy, stop paying any attention to people who tell you that there is better to be had. It will only end up costing you money! That might not be a popular comment on here though as forums are generally devised to promote sales.

 

[migo]

The best bit of advice I would offer to anyone is that, when you find a combination that you love and enjoy, stop paying any attention to people who tell you that there is better to be had. It will only end up costing you money! That might not be a popular comment on here though as forums are generally devised to promote sales.

100% agree with this!

 

[Articnoise]

This is spot on and the crux of the majority of debate and argument on here imo. That and the fact that people have different taste, different ears and listen to different music. If people could be more accepting of this, then the forum would be far less littered with meaningless arguments back and forth about what’s ‘Best’. In fairness though, this is something that has to be learned over time with experience and not everyone gets the chance to try out a lot of different gear.

My own focus has always been on my stereo system but gradually, over the years, I have progressively used phones more and more. HD800 were the first pair of good phones that I bought, an upgrade from my old HD 650, and I loved them at first. Then I moved on (up?) to HE-1000 SE which I thought were great out of my Blu Dave which was my main DAC at the time. They weren’t perfect though for me so I upgraded (?) again to Susvara which sounded great in store, but were quite disappointing back home out of the Dave and not as good as HE-1000 had been. That was my first lesson in system synergy and the fact that highly regarded phones may not always sound as you might hope/expect - and it started me on a bit of a journey to figure out how to get the best out of Susvara. In the meantime, I bought a pair of Utopia because they sounded good in store and were the very opposite of Susvara in that they were ‘easy to drive’. But out of the Dave, they were fatiguing and uncomfortable to my ears being hard, sharp edged and they pummelled my ears like a pneumatic road drill. Lesson two learned and my headphone naïveté was being stripped away. Good phones will not sound good out of everything - and I was still yet to learn that even a top end chain will not make all phones sound good.

Several years on and both now sound fantastic - but only when connected to the right chain. Equally, I can make both sound as depicted above by @Polygonhell. If people used the word ‘preferred’ instead of ‘best and better’, things would be a lot easier and threads generally more interesting. There are a lot of people on here with very good knowledge and experience that we can learn from, but I often glaze over or even give up in frustration in threads where people argue back and forth over what’s ‘best’.

When correctly driven, I think that Susvara are probably technically the best all round phones of the 7 (ashamed to admit) TOTL sets that I own, but 1266 Phi TC and SolP are both more fun to use and less picky about the chain and, consequently, a lot more versatile - especially SolP which I have yet to make sound less than good. How does that factor in to a what’s best conversation? If I had to, I could cull my phones down to Utopia, SolP and 1266 and cover pretty much all my bases, but that would mean letting go of what I consider to be technically my ‘Best’ phones. I would also be able to let go the amp that I use exclusively with Susvara, which would free up a shelf in my main rack. So I do consider it from time to time, and then I put Susvara on for a session and end up thinking ‘no, not yet’!

The best bit of advice I would offer to anyone is that, when you find a combination that you love and enjoy, stop paying any attention to people who tell you that there is better to be had. It will only end up costing you money! That might not be a popular comment on here though as forums are generally devised to promote sales.

I agree with you 100% on everything except the last paragraph. I actually want to know if there are better DACs, amps and sources coming out on the market (at affordable prices) than what I already have.

 

[Malcyg]

I agree with you 100% on everything except the last paragraph. I actually want to know if there are better DACs, amps and sources coming out on the market (at affordable prices) than what I already have.

Indeed and I share your view on that. However, I see a lot of people who seem less confident and also slightly anxious about what they have bought or are considering buying and are swayed by people telling that something else is ‘better’. My point is really, if you like it, then nobody’s opinion matters more than your own and it is better to go with your own ears, heart and mind than to be swayed by others as to what’s ‘best’.

 

[iFi audio]

nd bought/borrowed a bunch of expensive cans.

Their private biases aside, many reviewers listen to and compare way more products than most other people and there's a lot of value in that.

 

[chesebert]

Their private biases aside, many reviewers listen to and compare way more products than most other people and there's a lot of value in that.

Not really IMO, if they don’t know what they are listening for or has not yet developed their listening abilities and acumen.

 

[iFi audio]

Not really IMO, if they don’t know what they are listening for or has not yet developed their listening abilities and acumen.

There are many who do

But I agree, it surely takes a lot of time to develop listening abilities.

 

[jlemaster1957]

As Chord

Indeed and I share your view on that. However, I see a lot of people who seem less confident and also slightly anxious about what they have bought or are considering buying and are swayed by people telling that something else is ‘better’. My point is really, if you like it, then nobody’s opinion matters more than your own and it is better to go with your own ears, heart and mind than to be swayed by others as to what’s ‘best’.

As someone who lives far from a hifi store where it is possible to audition audio chain components, and as a new Susvara owner with only mid-fi components so far (see my signature fyi) I rely on the majority report of user impressions (both reviewers and users who post here or on threads specific to the component eg Yggdrasil Dac); and buying from a source that will allow return of the item eg Schiit Audio. I try to read the whole of a thread though this one is so long that I rely on ‘search this thread’. I can’t audition everything of course but I do find the information helpful (and entertaining).

 

[Articnoise]

Indeed and I share your view on that. However, I see a lot of people who seem less confident and also slightly anxious about what they have bought or are considering buying and are swayed by people telling that something else is ‘better’. My point is really, if you like it, then nobody’s opinion matters more than your own and it is better to go with your own ears, heart and mind than to be swayed by others as to what’s ‘best’.

I of course share your opinion that if anyone like the sound of an amp or any other gear, its all that really matters.

My experience is however a bit different, its that in 90% of the cases someone has bought or are considering buying an amp and are asking if that specific amp is optimal for driving Susvara or if anyone can recommend another that will make Susvara sound better. In most cases yes the amp they are asking about can drive Susvara without sounding like crap, but still not optimal for someone that like it to make it sound at or near its best. My point is better don't ask if you don't want to hear the opinion/experience.