[EMINENT]

Just to add to the circle of confusion.... I also heard more weight in lower registers with Hypsos vs without, but I am one that's unable to discern differences in voltages unlike others.

 

[Roybenz]

https://soundnews.net/headphones/full-size/the-ultimate-hifiman-susvara-review/
Maybe we should sticky this review

Or this.



He tells the whole power mystery isn’t real. It doesn’t need bunch of power or speaker amp.

 

[rthomas]

Or this.



He tells the whole power mystery isn’t real. It doesn’t need bunch of power or speaker amp.

To add another data point goldensound measured the Zahl HM1 which “only” puts out 3.5 watts into 32ohms …. And he said it was the best amp he’s ever heard with his Susvara. He sold his Benchmark speaker amp to help fund the purchase of the Zahl.

Clearly the blanket statement that “this headphone needs a speaker ampto reach its full potential “ isn’t some absolute truth

 

[number1sixerfan]

Some of this is just subjective, in terms of what pairs best or what an individual person likes most.. but the Susvara does indeed perform better with amps that provide continuous, quality current imho. It's not just about wattage.

I personally wasn't expecting as big of a jump that I saw when I recently experimented with my two speaker amps and the GSX Mini. There was a pretty big difference in timbre and weight of the overall sound, and a nice, but not so large boost with bass impact and perceived quantity. (saw the same differences with my EC 300B but it had less headroom than the speaker amps). The Susvara still sounded good with the Mini, but it did leave some performance on the table. Certainly I don't think a speaker amp is a must, but definitely the Susvara requires high quality power to drive to its full potential.

 

[rangerid]

Specs alone tell very little.
Topping A90 is 6.7W into 32 ohms & Schiit Magnius is 5W into 32, both of which are more powerful than the HM1. Quality of power, amp topology, tech, etc. are much more important and numbers don't tell.
In today's landscape the absolute power an amp can provide is no longer an issue like it was 10+ years ago when the HE6 first came out when no headamps were up for the task. IME after a certain level of amplification is achieved the source and delivery of clean power to components of the chain is significantly more important. Different amps will provide you different flavours and presentations than performance.

 

[jlbrach]

Susvara has a lower floor but also higher ceiling than most headphones. If you don't have a good chain, it's going to sound comparatively worse than a lot of other flagships but soars past everything else once your gear is up to the task - having owned nearly every headphone I can only think of 1, maybe 2 that's a better total package and can scale more.

spot on, IMHO this holds for the abyss 1266 and Raal HP's as well

 

[jlbrach]

https://soundnews.net/headphones/full-size/the-ultimate-hifiman-susvara-review/
Maybe we should sticky this review

this is definitely a pretty comprehensive analysis of different amps with susvara...not everything but a hell of a lot

 

[rthomas]

Specs alone tell very little.
Topping A90 is 6.7W into 32 ohms & Schiit Magnius is 5W into 32, both of which are more powerful than the HM1. Quality of power, amp topology, tech, etc. are much more important and numbers don't tell.
In today's landscape the absolute power an amp can provide is no longer an issue like it was 10+ years ago when the HE6 first came out when no headamps were up for the task. IME after a certain level of amplification is achieved the source and delivery of clean power to components of the chain is significantly more important. Different amps will provide you different flavours and presentations than performance.

Is anybody here qualified to comment on quality of power, amp topology or tech?

If yes I’m all ears. I still haven’t received an answer for why the Oor can’t get the best out of the Susvara other than something like 55Watts > 8 Watts which makes no sense even for an insensitive headphone.

Sajid Amit described the Oor as magnificent with the Susvara.

 

[migo]

Is anybody here qualified to comment on quality of power, amp topology or tech?

If yes I’m all ears. I still haven’t received an answer for why the Oor can’t get the best out of the Susvara other than something like 55Watts > 8 Watts which makes no sense even for an insensitive headphone.

Sajid Amit described the Oor as magnificent with the Susvara.

All amps are about power supply. It is crucial part of every amplifier. It is the power from power supply that can make difference alongside with amp topology. I've experienced this with upgrading my H20 amp and was I was very surprised by outcome of those modification with Susvara connected.

 

[Spawn300Z]

You do what’s going to make you happy when you’re listening to your system. I went with the Riviera AIC-10. Susvaras sound amazing. I feel I made the right choice for me. But everyone is different. You need to trust your own ears. If it sounds good to you then it’s right for you. Drown out the other noise.

Just know the Susvaras scale up with the more clean current and power you provide it. So it’s just trying to get every last bit of performance the Susvara can provide. So this conversation will never stop.

One thing is for sure, designing my system to the Susvara, has also provided an immediate impact to some of my other headphones. So I’m just enjoying the music for a while.

 

[Roybenz]

Soundnews also states that ferrum is enough.

Today I got to try the utopia 2022 and meze empyrean and meze elite (Wich doesn’t require much to drive it to the fullest) using T+A ha200 (this amp sound very similar to my 430ha) and with the moon 680D streamer dac. The meze sounds warmer and has fantastic over all bass compared to susvara, susvara sound like it goes lower and has more details in all aspects but is brighter top end.

I was told the susvara would never have the bass of the elite no matter what amp you use with it, the susvara is tuned different, it’s extends into infinity and is a brighter tune with deeper but less punchy bass.

Utopia sounded good, warmer than Sus, but with a much more mid and mid bass bump, and sounded a little more boxed in than sus. For me the elite and sus is clearly better.

 

[rthomas]

All amps are about power supply. It is crucial part of every amplifier. It is the power from power supply that can make difference alongside with amp topology. I've experienced this with upgrading my H20 amp and was I was very surprised by outcome of those modification with Susvara connected.

Ok assuming this is true how do we compare the quality of power supplies between the top tier amps from the likes of Ferrum, Violectric, Headamp etc?

It's so hard to get info which is not influenced by the following: marketing from the manufacturer, retail price and the how good the amp looks and feels.

 

[migo]

Ok assuming this is true how do we compare the quality of power supplies between the top tier amps from the likes of Ferrum, Violectric, Headamp etc?

It's so hard to get info which is not influenced by the following: marketing from the manufacturer, retail price and the how good the amp looks and feels.

Unfortunately manufacturers doesn't expose specs of power supplies used. In general lower noise supplies with enough current reserve and stable current delivery can make difference here. When you look at pics of amp internals you can make basic picture of amp design. I like CFA3, FluxLab Volot and Holo Bliss internals btw.

 

[iFi audio]

I can only think of 1, maybe 2 that's a better total package and can scale more.

Please tell which are those

Yes, I bought the Utopia 2022 a few weeks ago and I really wanted to compare it to the Susvara at home which is the opposite of noisy meet conditions.

I borrowed a new Susvara (2023 production) and a Ferrum Oor for my comparison as I didn't want any doubts about the power of my amp for the comparison. 8 Watts at 60 Ohms is plenty!

From a custom built Dynalo Mk2 and the Oor Utopia 2022 is without a doubt the warmer, richer sounding headphone. I gave both headphones the exact same amount of bass boost and to my ears Utopia has the more impressive, punchier bass.

Susvara is a more laid back, polite listen.

It is only a matter of taste, I'd be happy with either but to my ears Utopia sucks you into the music better. @Sajid Amit made an interesting video about how the Utopia was getting more headtime than all his other flagships.

Thanks, I can understand why you perceived Susvara as laid back and polite. My impression of these cans is similar, but that changes on tracks which provide lots of immediacy and dynamic scale. Then that politeness evaporates to make room for crack and might

After reading your post I'll gladly try Focals in Munich, thanks

 

[rthomas]

Please tell which are those



Thanks, I can understand why you perceived Susvara as laid back and polite. My impression of these cans is similar, but that changes on tracks which provide lots of immediacy and dynamic scale. Then that politeness evaporates to make room for crack and might

After reading your post I'll gladly try Focals in Munich, thanks

I just want to be clear that the Susvara is politer than the Utopia but it is certainly not anywhere close to boring. I would say that most of the DCA cans and the Stax SR009S even with a top amp can sound boring with a lot of music. Even the HD800S.

If I wasn´t comparing the Susvara and the Utopia directly I´d be perfectly satisfied with the engagement level of the Susvara.

I was absolutely ready to sell the Utopia if I enjoyed the Susvara more.

This comparison was very enlightening and I understood what @vsg28 meant in his excellent review when he said the Utopia had his favourite bass amongst the flagships. He wasn´t talking about absolute extension but the perception and impact of bass from the Utopia was just more fun than the Susvara.

In Munich please compare Giorgio by Moroder by Daft Punk on the Susvara / Utopia. With the same 5 db bass shelf applied the difference in bass presentation is very clear

I look forward to your impressions.