[koven]

You mean you don't think they're just the coolest ever?

They are pretty cool.. in an extraterrestrial-Fi, E.T. phone home kind of way...

 

[Ethereal Sound]

There is no moving on beyond these headphones...they are at the pinnacle of personal audio IMO.

I mean, pretty much. At this point, it's not about moving beyond the headphones, it's about amp pairing. But as some have stated before, the abyss is a side-grade one could make if bass was the main issue. I personally wish the susvara slammed harder but the extend extremely low and with the right amp pairing, can slam pretty decently. However, in literally every other thing, it's an extremely natural and effortless sounding headphone.

 

[number1sixerfan]

What are some of the criticisms you or anyone else have on the Susvara?

Like a few others mentioned it's pretty much taste at this point. I have the 009/Susvara/TC all close to tied at #1 based on what you're listening to and preferences. The TCs get more things right technically than anything I've heard and the sound is unreal, the mids are just a tad hollow.. and the Susvara truly sounds like a TOTL electrostat, but with actual punch (not as much as TCs) and a low end. And the 009 has the most open and organic midrange of all for sure.

That said, imo the Susvara may be the most well balanced of the three.. especially if you consider the TCs fit lol (not talking looks.. comfort)

 

[mixman]

More preference than criticism but I can easily see someone preferring the TC if their primary genre is more dynamic bass-dominant music like EDM, hip-hop, etc. Susvara is well above average there but for me where they shine brightest is on classical, jazz, vocals, acoustics, instruments, etc.. there's no beyond to me unless they engineer a new flagship somehow or I move to an exponentially more expensive 2-channel system in an acoustically treated listening room.. I have the Dynaudio Special 40 in a makeshift home theater, pretty amazing sound in their own way but totally different experience, not nearly as intimate, or even emotional, as Susvara can be..

See that's just the thing, my preferences in music tend to be what the TC is best at......EDM, Hip Hop and new metal. For any acoustic or R&B I would probably use my Verite. As I am sure most have noticed there have been quite a few Susvara in the classifieds lately, at least for a HP that's pretty low volume. My guess was that many owners want more slam than the Susvara can give, I have heard them several times and that is the feeling I get too. Everything else, I think they do well.

Given the normally wild unpredictability of subjective preferences in this hobby, I really hope you're just kidding, and that this kidding is what the smiley is about.... Already, I often see the Susvara mentioned together, with the Abyss TC, as if they're the two candidates competing for this crown ("pinnacle of personal audio") for a lot of people. I am betting if one were to hold a shoot-out between just these two, not everyone present would choose the same pair as the winner,

I for one have still not heard either one, and, although I have been curious about both for a long time, I wouldn't know which one I would choose, were I to hear both in a shootout, or whether I would even reject both and settle for something else, or one which I already own as my personal "pinnacle". I am pretty sure there are more people in my situation in the hobby than there are people who have actually heard both cans.

As for the Susvara, since I have seen several of them on the pre-owned market in the past year alone, I am betting there are a few who have already moved on from it for diverse possible reasons (which might include the impatience and frustration involved in finding the right amp to drive it optimally, or simply, the preference for something else, for another flavor, pinnacle or not) although it remains to be seen whether someone who falls in that category would actually show up here to answer @Law87 's question... Yeah, it remains to be seen...

In the meantime, here is my own smiley, meant as a coda to this irreverent meditation

By the way, I am also a Susvara fan of sorts, although, as I have said before, I have never heard or even seen one in person... Or maybe, I should say I am a fan of too many rave reviews of the Susvara... Maybe... It is purely to those "rave reviews" that I owe my current bizarre status as a "Susvara Fan who has never heard or seen a Susvara"

I agree with the assesment of a few others. Having heard pretty much all the TOTL HP's. I would place the TC and Susvara at the pinnacle of the "normal" headphone world.

imagine spending 5 grand...just to convince your friends, you can hear jesus but look like a fool lol.

I think if the TC had the Empyrean, fit and comfort.....and looks, I think it would be a runaway hit. When people buy a $5K headphone they, like you mentioned, don't want to ridiculed and hear about it looking like a torture device, or an alien contraption. They want oohs and ahhs, like buying a Ferrari, not jokes that they look like they just bought a VW Bug (no offense to VW Bug owners).

Like a few others mentioned it's pretty much taste at this point. I have the 009/Susvara/TC all close to tied at #1 based on what you're listening to and preferences. The TCs get more things right technically than anything I've heard and the sound is unreal, the mids are just a tad hollow.. and the Susvara truly sounds like a TOTL electrostat, but with actual punch (not as much as TCs) and a low end. And the 009 has the most open and organic midrange of all for sure.

That said, imo the Susvara may be the most well balanced of the three.. especially if you consider the TCs fit lol (not talking looks.. comfort)

Yeah the Susvara is the least offensive soundwise and comfortwise. For me Stats don't have enough oomph for me to consider them, so as you say the Susvara is the next best bet. Although purely on sound, discounting comfort, I think the TC is the best balanced.....great soundstage, great bass, great dynamics and a good tonal balance. Timbre on the TC though......not too sure about.

 

[koven]

VW bug is.. generous, it's more of a Pontiac Aztek..

 

[Law87]

I think if the TC had the Empyrean, fit and comfort.....and looks, I think it would be a runaway hit. When people buy a $5K headphone they, like you mentioned, don't want to ridiculed and hear about it looking like a torture device, or an alien contraption. They want oohs and ahhs, like buying a Ferrari, not jokes that they look like they just bought a VW Bug (no offense to VW Bug owners).

I cant think of a car reference that cost the same as a Ferrari would even look like that.

Edit: had to look it up, the Covini C6w. The Abyss Phi TC are 640 grams!

 

[radnor]

More preference than criticism but I can easily see someone preferring the TC if their primary genre is more dynamic bass-dominant music like EDM, hip-hop, etc. Susvara is well above average there but for me where they shine brightest is on classical, jazz, vocals, acoustics, instruments, etc.. there's no beyond to me unless they engineer a new flagship somehow or I move to an exponentially more expensive 2-channel system in an acoustically treated listening room.. I have the Dynaudio Special 40 in a makeshift home theater, pretty amazing sound in their own way but totally different experience, not nearly as intimate, or even emotional, as Susvara can be..

Agree susvara amazing for vocals.... I’m more electronica so may need to go abyss TC soon. Otherwise BACCH ruins everything. Music hologram changes the game forever.... and I believe will inevitably transform hiend audio... as more highly directive speakers like genelec studio monitors perform better than my raidho D3s. Directivity key to beam forming. BACCH can do headphones as well.... and make it sound like speakers.... externalization beyond the smyth realizer... however nothing comes close to speakers. As a side note UNREAL ENGINE 5 will have spatial audio native and do things like convolution reverb.... ie calculating the reverb based on the environment.... so in a BACCH reproduction it will sound like you are in a cave. I am trying to convey how profound Bacch is.... although speakers are in front of you you hear room reverberation of the auditorium off to the side several feet away from the speakers... it is uncanny... the sound becomes uncoupled from the speakers. Impossible to convey until experienced.

 

[radnor]

Why would I be kidding...it along with the Phi TC, Utopia, LCD-4/4z among only a few others are among the very best I've heard/experienced. I didn't say there were there alone, but they are at the tip of the spear for sure (to my ears).

If the susvara had the 4Z/4 bass they would win.

one could make a lateral move to the abyss TC but moving beyond would be quite a challenge

You go far beyond all audio reproduction on earth today with BACCH. There is a reason Elon Musk is funding the Princeton lab. There are only about 160 “audiophiles” in the world today that have had in depth experience with this. Once you add the native spatial element that actually exists in the music you can never go back.... everything seems flat.

 

[radnor]

Delete

 

[Tekunda]

It's almost a shame that no one mentions the Final Audio D8000 Pro.
They have the sweetness of the Susvara and have a bombastic low end, coming very, very close to the TC. They are worth a second look.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

It's almost a shame that no one mentions the Final Audio D8000 Pro.
They have the sweetness of the Susvara and have a bombastic low end, coming very, very close to the TC. They are worth a second look.

Comparing Susvara and D8k Pro, which one has smoother treble and more presence in vocality? Actually this Flagship from Final seems so promising. Tried regular D8000 before, but only a brief moment at exhibition. Kind of like the sound, but not sure about its technicality.

 

[koven]

It's almost a shame that no one mentions the Final Audio D8000 Pro.
They have the sweetness of the Susvara and have a bombastic low end, coming very, very close to the TC. They are worth a second look.

D8 Pro does sound quite good, but not as good. I find it a notch below the 1a and 1b Susvara/TC, but close. It's mainly missing the soundstage. It's not that comfortable either, heavy w/ strong clamp.

 

[Mediahound]

If you listen to a lot of EDM or hip-hop, I don't think the Susvara is for you.

Check out the Sony Z1R, they're pretty amazing for that, and super comfortable.

LCD-4 is also not bad, but way too heavy. Surpringsly, those are heavier than the Abyss PHI TC.

 

[MacedonianHero]

It's almost a shame that no one mentions the Final Audio D8000 Pro.
They have the sweetness of the Susvara and have a bombastic low end, coming very, very close to the TC. They are worth a second look.

That's simply because they are not in this top echelon. They aren't as transparent, revealing or dynamic. I've tried them several times and I did like them...but more like in the tier just below the pinnacle to my ears.

 

[MacedonianHero]

If the susvara had the 4Z/4 bass they would win.

You go far beyond all audio reproduction on earth today with BACCH. There is a reason Elon Musk is funding the Princeton lab. There are only about 160 “audiophiles” in the world today that have had in depth experience with this. Once you add the native spatial element that actually exists in the music you can never go back.... everything seems flat.

Depends on your front rig too...I find the bass quality right there with the best.