HiFiMan Susvara

[jlemaster1957]

Thanks, reminded me that i was on a Final Fantasy marathon that got paused because of time constraints.
The music is really, really good, even in older FF titles, check out "The Boundless Ocean" from FF3.
Japanese developers man, they really are something else in comparison to the western market, they often really care.

@Exekuhtor, which production of Boundless Ocean do you like best, I guess the OST?

 

[theveterans]

You sure you have the right stock cable? Interesting that you find the stock dark because my experience is 100% opposite of yours. Stock is airy, open, resolute, wide and holographic in all directions while at the same time full, extended and slamming like a truck in the bass. Complete neutrality in tone across the board

I'd still advocate for a hybrid cable rather than pure OFC/OCC copper or pure OCC silver. You need both materials to get the best out of Susvara

 

[Spawn300Z]

+1 Hybrid Cables are the way to go.

 

[Mista Lova Lova]

You sure you have the right stock cable? Interesting that you find the stock dark because my experience is 100% opposite of yours. Stock is airy, open, resolute, wide and holographic in all directions while at the same time full, extended and slamming like a truck in the bass. Complete neutrality in tone across the board

I'd still advocate for a hybrid cable rather than pure OFC/OCC copper or pure OCC silver. You need both materials to get the best out of Susvara

Yup, got my Sus directly from Hifiman. Had the same experience with my previous Hifiman headphones - I didn't like the stock cables.

It's quite hard for me to describe the stock cable accurately, to be honest. It's got its advantages, I think it focuses on individual sounds more and they seem to be more separated from the background. But there's less air in the background and I'm feeling a bit claustrophobic, maybe it's just something I'm sensitive to. Overall, the entire experience feels both "interesting" (darker tonality tends to sound more mysterious/captivating in my experience), but also more subdued. OFC, on the other hand, at times sounds a bit too brittle (in comparison) and too "casual" (for lack of a better word - the mysterious element is gone).

I'll try to experiment with some cables and see where that takes me.

 

[jlemaster1957]

he OFC cable immediately makes the soundstage bigger, as if the room within which the music is being played has got bigger and all the windows (including the skylight) have been opened. Overall sound signature appears a bit brighter/more vivid, so I can see why one's preference may be for the "darker" cable.

Are you referring to the Focal stock 3.5 mm->XLR stock cable (for all but the Utopias). I have this and the stock Sus cable, and could actually do this comparison but want to be sure you're not talking about something else up-market. Pls LMK.

I can say that I found the Hart 3.5 -> XLR cables (which use Mogami OFC) darker and with more compressed stage than the stock Sus cable, but maybe that's not a big revelation to anybody (as the Hart cables cost $55 USD). The Focal cable (if one needed to buy/replace it) is ~$200 US.

@theveterans thanks for sharing about the Inferno. I thought about picking that one up (or something more expensive) a while back but so many folks raved about the Sus stock cable SQ on here, and as I did find it better than anything else I had to hand, so i never tried Inferno out and now am glad.

@Bootycall922 when you contact Susvara, do let them know if your unit is still under warranty (if you bought it new) they may just send you a replacement.

 

[Mista Lova Lova]

Are you referring to the Focal stock 3.5 mm->XLR stock cable (for all but the Utopias). I have this and the stock Sus cable, and could actually do this comparison but want to be sure you're not talking about something else up-market. Pls LMK.

Yes, 3.5mm -> XLR, I either got this one with the Focal Clears in the past or I ordered it separately from Focal, can't remember. I have little experience with cables; as I've mentioned before I have owned at least 2 silver-plated ones before and disliked them both for the same reasons. I once ordered a custom-made OFC cable (from memory - priced just under what Focal charges for their cables) for a friend and I remember comparing it to the Focal cable and they sounded absolutely identical to my ears, so I'd think that the Focal cables are probably a good representation of what OFC cables sound like.

I am also surprised that I'm not perceiving the stock Susvara cable as being brighter, given the addition of silver. I will do some more testing with tracks that have bigger dynamic swings and will see how they both fare then.

PS Perhaps I should have used the word "warmer" as opposed to "darker" in my previous descriptions.

 

[theveterans]

@theveterans thanks for sharing about the Inferno. I thought about picking that one up (or something more expensive) a while back but so many folks raved about the Sus stock cable SQ on here, and as I did find it better than anything else I had to hand, so i never tried Inferno out and now am glad.

You're welcome. I would predict the Inferno would be the perfect match for the Susvara Unveiled, HE1000SE or even Arya Organic though since it does maintain Susvara's low end heft but loses the air in comparison. It's similar to the Arctic Apeiron impressions and comparison to the stock cable that Exekhutor had with Susvara Unveiled.

 

[Mista Lova Lova]

I've done some more listening and conclusions are largely the same.

Again, a bit of an exaggeration to illustrate my point - it's almost like the OFC cable presents more of the frequency range (air) whereas the stock Hifiman cable focuses on certain parts of it, but the parts it focuses on it does better in terms of texturing and the "tactility" of sound. So, for me it's the case of pick your poison - if someone has fallen in love with what the stock is strong at, they will surely not want to part with it. If someone cannot live without the extra airiness (me), then even the strengths of the stock cable cannot make me forget about what I am (subjectively) missing out on.

A cable that combines all those strengths with as a few trade-offs as possible would be fantastic. To my ears, on my system, of course (YMMV).

 

[Exekuhtor]

@Exekuhtor, which production of Boundless Ocean do you like best, I guess the OST?

The one i linked.

You're welcome. I would predict the Inferno would be the perfect match for the Susvara Unveiled, HE1000SE or even Arya Organic though since it does maintain Susvara's low end heft but loses the air in comparison. It's similar to the Arctic Apeiron impressions and comparison to the stock cable that Exekhutor had with Susvara Unveiled.

Yeah, to be fair, i have not heard the thicker Apeiron with the OG Susvara, but other 1-3k€ expensive cables. The changes were not as much as on the Unveiled now. That's why i have an Euphoria incoming.
I don't know if a really expensive thick 2k+ cable is really worth it for the OG Susvara since it has no real problem with dynamics as the Unveiled.

 

[chrisnyc75]

You ever just listen to a song you are familiar with and then get overwhelmed in awe at what you're hearing?

All the time. That's the whole reason for this complicated, expensive, insane hobby. Music has always played an outsize part in my life, but only since getting into this "audiophile" thing can I come home on a random Wednesday, put on my headphones, cue up a song I love that I haven't listened to in a long time and have my mind absolutely blown because I can't believe what I'm listening to sounds this good. Is it the gear or the music or just psychological? Who cares! Being able to do what you love best any time you want and have it fill you with a fresh sense of wonder every single time is PRICELESS.

 

[jlemaster1957]

All the time. That's the whole reason for this complicated, expensive, insane hobby. Music has always played an outsize part in my life, but only since getting into this "audiophile" thing can I come home on a random Wednesday, put on my headphones, cue up a song I love that I haven't listened to in a long time and have my mind absolutely blown because I can't believe what I'm listening to sounds this good. Is it the gear or the music or just psychological? Who cares! Being able to do what you love best any time you want and have it fill you with a fresh sense of wonder every single time is PRICELESS.

You probably already knew this but…
Listening to the music you love will make your brain release more dopamine.

 

[Shini44]

i have both regardless, so it doesn't hurt to try, beside AHB2 can power speakers for me one day. and bookshelf speakers too.

will keep you posted

You were so right @Frankie D

mass kobo 465 wipes the floor with 2x AHBs setup mono bridge

yes clarity snd note separation wins on mono ahb but holy moly how is the mass kobo filled with such a power and synergy in a small box!! Japanese amps are really something.

To be fair it's 3400 amp (2x) vs 15,000 amp I should be fair with this comparison haha, honestly speaker amp power doesn't beat quality everyday on susvara, lesson learned.

 

[jlemaster1957]

You were so right @Frankie D

mass kobo 465 wipes the floor with 2x AHBs setup mono bridge

yes clarity snd note separation wins on mono ahb but holy moly how is the mass kobo filled with such a power and synergy in a small box!! Japanese amps are really something.

To be fair it's 3400 amp (2x) vs 15,000 amp I should be fair with this comparison haha, honestly speaker amp power doesn't beat quality everyday on susvara, lesson learned.

Thanks this is helpful. The takeaway (to me anyway) seems to be: don’t choose an AHB2 rather than a higher quality (priced) TOTL amp thinking that you will save money later on by adding a second one for mono bridging, and that you will get the same level of performance.

ALSO, since many of us will not have the luxury of buying multiple TOTL amps to compare, to take advantage of CanJams if we can to get our ears on multiple devices to ground-truth their performance to deliver on our real SQ preferences.

 

[theveterans]

Thanks this is helpful. The takeaway (to me anyway) seems to be: don’t choose an AHB2 rather than a higher quality (priced) TOTL amp thinking that you will save money later on by adding a second one for mono bridging, and that you will get the same level of performance.

ALSO, since many of us will not have the luxury of buying multiple TOTL amps to compare, to take advantage of CanJams if we can to get our ears on multiple devices to ground-truth their performance to deliver on our real SQ preferences.

Or DIY an Aegis with TOTL parts in the signal path (minus the silver transformers) for around 3 - 4K and get very, very close to MK465 performance levels of driving the Susvara

Modifications needed from the standard Aegis:

Duelund Cast Silver Caps x2
Audio Note Silver Tantalum Resistors

 

[Frankie D]

You were so right @Frankie D

mass kobo 465 wipes the floor with 2x AHBs setup mono bridge

yes clarity snd note separation wins on mono ahb but holy moly how is the mass kobo filled with such a power and synergy in a small box!! Japanese amps are really something.

To be fair it's 3400 amp (2x) vs 15,000 amp I should be fair with this comparison haha, honestly speaker amp power doesn't beat quality everyday on susvara, lesson learned.

Happy to hear you are enjoying your MK-465! Most folks cannot make that comparison. Thrilled that you were able to make it.

You might want to post this and any additional details on the MK-455 thread as well. Tks.