Hifiman Sundara (HE400i upgraded, around $500)

[Ripper2860]

Hello, all.

Log time lurker -- 1st time poster.

I chose this thread as my 1st one to post in because I've been agonizing over the purchase of a Sundara ever since it was announced. I currently have a set of Hifiman HE 400S cans (the budget $299 all silver models) with Focus pads and absolutely love them. I drive them with a Schiit Magni 3, Modi Multibit and Eitr stack (a Loki is on order). You'd think that one would be happy with what I have, but the Sundaras have just been haunting me. Most of the comparisons have been against Senn models and Hifiman HE400i and HE560 models.

While the Sundaras are gaining favor over the HE400i's in posts I've read, I know the HE400S is a different sound profile with supposedly a bit more bass extension over the 400i. I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on what I can expect to hear with the Sundara in comparison to HE 400S. I listen mainly to Indie, classic rock, big-band, jazz, and a bit of classical. While the HE400S is an awesome value and excellent 1st foray into planars, I'm hoping to get a little bit more low-end extension, a bit more detail and layers along with a greater soundstage. Any thoughts/opinions?

Happy to be here and Thanks!!

Richard

 

[Geezer Rock 001]

Richard, welcome. I have no 400s experience. My advice would be to continue to enjoy your 400 S's and watch the head phones for sale section. There will be Sundaras out there, burned in and for less than retail in a month or so.

I would not have bailed on the 400i's, but I had a buyer and I was smitten by planars.

WARNING! If you hang out at Head Fi very much you will lose a lot of weight because you will spend way too much $ on stuff for your head. Take it from one who knows.

 

[yaby1979]

Hello, all.

Log time lurker -- 1st time poster.

I chose this thread as my 1st one to post in because I've been agonizing over the purchase of a Sundara ever since it was announced. I currently have a set of Hifiman HE 400S cans (the budget $299 all silver models) with Focus pads and absolutely love them. I drive them with a Schiit Magni 3, Modi Multibit and Eitr stack (a Loki is on order). You'd think that one would be happy with what I have, but the Sundaras have just been haunting me. Most of the comparisons have been against Senn models and Hifiman HE400i and HE560 models.

While the Sundaras are gaining favor over the HE400i's in posts I've read, I know the HE400S is a different sound profile with supposedly a bit more bass extension over the 400i. I'd love to hear folks' thoughts on what I can expect to hear with the Sundara in comparison to HE 400S. I listen mainly to Indie, classic rock, big-band, jazz, and a bit of classical. While the HE400S is an awesome value and excellent 1st foray into planars, I'm hoping to get a little bit more low-end extension, a bit more detail and layers along with a greater soundstage. Any thoughts/opinions?

Happy to be here and Thanks!!

Richard

The conflicting opinions you get will make your eyeballs spin. So my advice to you or anybody for that matter that is looking for 'that' sound is to buy the Sudara from a reputable Authorized dealer or Amazon and take your 30 day return period to listen and make your own decision. If you think Sundara or any other headphone isn't worth the money or you just don't like the sound return them and get your money back!! How easy is that??!! The problem with opinions is that everybody's ears are different. Unless you're running the same front end the sonic result can vary greatly. And the type of music makes a huge difference. Some headphones sound incredible with acoustic music but suck with rock or maybe classical. So what's good sounding is up to you!!! Not anyone else. And some people have their own agenda .Maybe they work in the retail end of the industry and want you to consider x instead of y. And sadly some folks on here have a problem with Fang, the Hifiman CEO, and just bad-mouth any Hifiman product. So Listen and buy what's best to Your Ears.

 

[Ripper2860]

Richard, welcome. I have no 400s experience. My advice would be to continue to enjoy your 400 S's and watch the head phones for sale section. There will be Sundaras out there, burned in and for less than retail in a month or so.

I would not have bailed on the 400i's, but I had a buyer and I was smitten by planars.

WARNING! If you hang out at Head Fi very much you will lose a lot of weight because you will spend way too much $ on stuff for your head. Take it from one who knows.

The conflicting opinions you get will make your eyeballs spin. So my advice to you or anybody for that matter that is looking for 'that' sound is to buy the Sudara from a reputable Authorized dealer or Amazon and take your 30 day return period to listen and make your own decision. If you think Sundara or any other headphone isn't worth the money or you just don't like the sound return them and get your money back!! How easy is that??!! The problem with opinions is that everybody's ears are different. Unless you're running the same front end the sonic result can vary greatly. And the type of music makes a huge difference. Some headphones sound incredible with acoustic music but suck with rock or maybe classical. So what's good sounding is up to you!!! Not anyone else. And some people have their own agenda .Maybe they work in the retail end of the industry and want you to consider x instead of y. And sadly some folks on here have a problem with Fang, the Hifiman CEO, and just bad-mouth any Hifiman product. So Listen and buy what's best to Your Ears.

Thanks for your quick and helpful replies...

I'm accustomed to 'hobbies' that drain ones bank account, having come from an obsession with film and digital photography. Now that has run its course and has been replaced with audio (headphone and 2 channel), much to my wife's chagrin. The watch and wait recommendation, while certainly a smart one, does not coincide with my previous practice -- patience and impulse control is not a virtue that I possess!!

The 30-day trial is certainly an option, but I was hoping to get some validation before potentially wasting a vendor's time. I typically like it to be a better than 50/50 proposition before asking a vendor to take a chance and possibly take a mark-down on a returned item. This may be the way to go, however, given the additional points made -- especially the heads-up on the possible Fang-based anti-Hifiman bias. I was not aware and this and it certainly paints a different picture as it relates to the veracity and reliability of posts related to Hifiman.

Thanks, again!!

 

[dleblanc343]

To shed some light regarding headphones mentioned and my opinions of them, I think the Sundara is great, but maybe not as much of a bang for your buck option as HiFiMAN has been know to be in the past. I think the headphone market is getting very competitive, with players like Focal, ZMF, MrSpeakers and Kennerton queueing up some nice selections.

If I had to assess the mid level headphone market in terms of my personal preferences, it would probably go as such: Alpha Dogs, Grado GH2, Sennheiser HD660S, Sundara, HD600, K712, SHURE SRH1540, HD650/6xx, 99 Classics.

* The top two being higher price tags but obtainable at mid level street prices.

HD650 goes up 3 spots with mods and greater equipment, but really is an obsolete choice seeing as the HD660S, despite not scaling as much, still performs above the 650 on the same system every time with a technical edge. HD6XX is a must own though given the price


Also worth checking the HD569 (closed) and HD579 (open) with entry level pricing and very capable performance

 

[esm87]

Anybody able to compare the sundara to oppo pm2?

 

[Ripper2860]

To shed some light regarding headphones mentioned and my opinions of them, I think the Sundara is great, but maybe not as much of a bang for your buck option as HiFiMAN has been know to be in the past. I think the headphone market is getting very competitive, with players like Focal, ZMF, MrSpeakers and Kennerton queueing up some nice selections.

If I had to assess the mid level headphone market in terms of my personal preferences, it would probably go as such: Alpha Dogs, Grado GH2, Sennheiser HD660S, Sundara, HD600, K712, SHURE SRH1540, HD650/6xx, 99 Classics.

* The top two being higher price tags but obtainable at mid level street prices.

HD650 goes up 3 spots with mods and greater equipment, but really is an obsolete choice seeing as the HD660S, despite not scaling as much, still performs above the 650 on the same system every time with a technical edge. HD6XX is a must own though given the price


Also worth checking the HD569 (closed) and HD579 (open) with entry level pricing and very capable performance

Interesting. You have certainly peaked my interest -- especially in the Alpha Dogs. While I have found several reviews, I am having a difficult time finding dealers or places to evaluate or purchase them. Mr. Speakers site no longer has them, so I'm a bit perplexed. Are they a current model and available, or are they only available 2nd hand? The thought of a really good closed back is something I'd like to explore, otherwise, I may look at the Grado or HD660S as open back alternatives to Hifiman.

 

[bradbort]

Definitely better than pm3. I’ve not heard the pm2

 

[bradbort]

The alpha dogs are discontinued. I don't believe that mr speaker would say they are as good as their current models. There seems to be a hot debate on this forum about whether the latest mr speaker low end (e.g. $800 headphones) are better or worse then the Sundara's. Grado is defiinitely a different beast entirely. I like them, but like planer's better. There also seems to be a hot debate on this forum about whether the Sennheisers are better or worse than the Sundara, although at last count I think most said worse (at least in the 600 series).

Which basically brings me back to my original point. Because of their physical on ear nature, different folks hear different headphones differently. You really do need to try them to decide which you like best. Personally, I'm really loving the Sundara's, but that is inc comparision with the 400i and the Oppo pm 3. I also admit that there is only so much I'd spend on headphones....and the Sundara is close to that point.

 

[imran27]

Definitely better than pm3. I’ve not heard the pm2

That's interesting. I liked PM3 (besides a tad more energy in highs everything was good).

I am seriously torn on whether to replace my Beyer DT 1990 for Sundara or HE560? Or should I replace them at all? Soundstage size and recessed male vocals are the only problem with DT 1990, besides that everything is just perfect.

 

[Ripper2860]

The alpha dogs are discontinued. I don't believe that mr speaker would say they are as good as their current models. There seems to be a hot debate on this forum about whether the latest mr speaker low end (e.g. $800 headphones) are better or worse then the Sundara's. Grado is defiinitely a different beast entirely. I like them, but like planer's better. There also seems to be a hot debate on this forum about whether the Sennheisers are better or worse than the Sundara, although at last count I think most said worse (at least in the 600 series).

Which basically brings me back to my original point. Because of their physical on ear nature, different folks hear different headphones differently. You really do need to try them to decide which you like best. Personally, I'm really loving the Sundara's, but that is inc comparision with the 400i and the Oppo pm 3. I also admit that there is only so much I'd spend on headphones....and the Sundara is close to that point.

Brad,

I too am partial to planars and the Sundara is right at my self-imposed limit -- although I could be convinced to spend an additional $100 if it was worthwhile. The ADogs were interesting as they are closed back planars (cheaper than the Aeon closed back) and since most of my listening is at night, I thought it might be something to consider. I agree that the best and only true way to ascertain whether a HPhone is the right one for me is to try it, so it's off to line-up some candidate headphones and resellers with a return policy. I have one for Hifiman, but they don't really have any other interesting sub $800 units, so it looks like it may be a possibility I'll be working with several resellers.

Thanks!!

 

[TheoS53]

Hi all, just sharing my Review on the Sundara.

 

[MelonHead]

Thanks for the well-made Sundara review Theo, as this is certainly on my shortlist. I would appreciate if you can compare the Sundara to some headphones from this price range.

 

[Gerelt971]

Received mine today. Some quick impressions after a few hours of listening compare to Monolith M1060 (stock version for both). I'm using Schiit Gumby + Schiit Mjolnir 2.

- The Sundara has pretty good sub-bass. That's really the first thing that hit me. The M1060 is also good in this department, but the Sundara go deeper.
- Sundara soundstage has more layers. It isn't very wide, but goes deep.
- Both cans have clear sound, but Sundara is cleaner. M1060 has a more grainy sound with less resolution.
- Sundara is slightly thinner in its reproduction, but is way smoother. I was planning to mod the M1060 to remove some glares in the treble and hid-mid.
- You won't find a good amount of mid-bass in the Sundara. Better go for LCD2-C if you are looking for this IMO. Not to say that the cans lack bass, but there isn't any big bump.

 

[esm87]

Sucks I have no open back experience to understand the sounds descriptions and comparisons