[ThanatosVI]

When I first got the HE-1, I still had my Chord DAVE DAC with Sean Jacobs DC4 power supply and a Schrodered set (double pair) of High Fidelity Cables pro RCA’s so the very top of the line DAC and cable setup. For many months, I went back and forth between internal HE-1 DAC and the external DAC setup with DAVE/DC4/HFC focusing on certain aspects of the sound individually (timing, speed, coherence, detail retrieval, etc) and finally settled on the internal dac. Yes, the DAVE did some things better and the HE-1 dac did other things better but when combining everything as a whole, the internal HE-1 dac was the clear winner.

Before getting the HE-1, I was on a mission to create the best headphone setup I could and that path was leading me to a DAVE going to a Riviera Pre Amp going to dual mono Riviera amps then to the Susvara. The HE-1 is basically that, a dac, going to a balanced preamp to dual mono amps (in the ear cups).

In my opinion, what sets the HE-1 system apart from anything else I have heard is having the amps in the ear cups. Instead of sending an amp signal of many watts that fluctuates, depending on the dynamics of the music, though a 10 foot headphone cable, with the HE-1, you are sending a constant 5v line signal from the preamp through the headphone cable then to the amps in the ear cups which are connected to the drivers with wire only millimeters long. So the main music signal is traveling millimeters vs feet. That setup creates this effortless flow to the music that I have not heard on any other headphone system (though I have not listened to the Shangri-la).

Also, on a side note, before getting the HE-1, the Hifiman headphones (He1, HE1se, Susvara, etc) were always my top pics and the only headphones I kept so I have no doubt the Shangri-La sounds fantastic.

You actually don't send a constant 5V Signal to the earcups.
The amp in the earcups works like a Power amp with fixed gain not like an integrated amp.

Pre amps don't send line level Signals.

It still makes a difference compared to other electrostatic headphones which receive several hundred Volt Signals, but it is still a variable Signal depending on volume set on the preamp

 

[onlychild]

You actually don't send a constant 5V Signal to the earcups.
The amp in the earcups works like a Power amp with fixed gain not like an integrated amp.

Pre amps don't send line level Signals.

It still makes a difference compared to other electrostatic headphones which receive several hundred Volt Signals, but it is still a variable Signal depending on volume set on the preamp

I stand corrected, thanks, always learning.

So the variable signal is variable based on where the volume is set, but once the volume is set, then it is no longer variable, correct?

When the amp is not in the ear cups, the signal passing through the headphone cable is variable depending on the dynamics of the music passage (more dynamics calls for more watts) so its always fluctuating no matter if the volume is changed or not, correct?

Not arguing, just trying to understand myself from what I've read on other forums.

 

[ThanatosVI]

I stand corrected, thanks, always learning.

So the variable signal is variable based on where the volume is set, but once the volume is set, then it is no longer variable, correct?

When the amp is not in the ear cups, the signal passing through the headphone cable is variable depending on the dynamics of the music passage (more dynamics calls for more watts) so its always fluctuating no matter if the volume is changed or not, correct?

Not arguing, just trying to understand myself from what I've read on other forums.

Line level Signals are also variable depending on the music that is playing. The line level is more of a Range for the Signal strength.

There are weaker Signals like phono level, mic level or Instrument level. (maybe you're seen phono preamps that amplify the Signal of your turntable to line level)

Line level is the "Standard Range" used by DAC outputs for instance. The reference is 2V (Peaks to peak) for RCA and 4V for XLR, however there are also many manufacturers that increase their max voltage which turns into a louder Signal. My Rockna Wavelight for instance uses 2.4V for RCA and 5.8V for XLR.

Pre amplifiers usually have higher ranges. My T+A PA2000R has up to 9.5V Signal strength.

All those mentioned levels usually are into high impedances like 10k Ohm and more.

Then there are stronger levels like speaker level, this is After the amplifier amplified the Signal.
These Signals usually go into way lower impedances (headphone impedance) which requires a lot more current.

However the actual voltage usually stays low depending on sensitivity.
On my Meze Liric (which I am listening to while writing this) a Signal for deafening 110db would have only 0.55V.
The same level on the Susvara would need 5.5V

 

[Jomungur]

When I first got the HE-1, I still had my Chord DAVE DAC with Sean Jacobs DC4 power supply and a Schrodered set (double pair) of High Fidelity Cables pro RCA’s so the very top of the line DAC and cable setup. For many months, I went back and forth between internal HE-1 DAC and the external DAC setup with DAVE/DC4/HFC focusing on certain aspects of the sound individually (timing, speed, coherence, detail retrieval, etc) and finally settled on the internal dac. Yes, the DAVE did some things better and the HE-1 dac did other things better but when combining everything as a whole, the internal HE-1 dac was the clear winner.

Before getting the HE-1, I was on a mission to create the best headphone setup I could and that path was leading me to a DAVE going to a Riviera Pre Amp going to dual mono Riviera amps then to the Susvara. The HE-1 is basically that, a dac, going to a balanced preamp to dual mono amps (in the ear cups).

In my opinion, what sets the HE-1 system apart from anything else I have heard is having the amps in the ear cups. Instead of sending an amp signal of many watts that fluctuates, depending on the dynamics of the music, though a 10 foot headphone cable, with the HE-1, you are sending a constant 5v line signal from the preamp through the headphone cable then to the amps in the ear cups which are connected to the drivers with wire only millimeters long. So the main music signal is traveling millimeters vs feet. That setup creates this effortless flow to the music that I have not heard on any other headphone system (though I have not listened to the Shangri-la).

Also, on a side note, before getting the HE-1, the Hifiman headphones (He1, HE1se, Susvara, etc) were always my top pics and the only headphones I kept so I have no doubt the Shangri-La sounds fantastic.

I haven't heard the HE-1 in a long time, and it wasn't the best setup, but I'm sure it's amazing. That's an interesting point about the amps in the ear cups.

Just want to say, though, that the modularity is what appeals to me about the Shangri-La SR because you can try different amps.

Separately, I also use the DAVE + M Scaler and found it a little too clinical for the Shangrila (going through the Shangrila amp). Don't get me wrong, it still sounds great, but I added a tube preamp in between the DAVE and the Shangrila-La amp and I love it. I wasn't sure if having tubes at the preamp and amp level would be overkill, but electrostats are so sensitive I think it works. Maybe try a tube DAC or tube preamp into your SE-1; might sound even better than the HE-1 native DAC.

 

[GYLIND]

I had compared my SR-Ω with X9K for few days.
And these weekend I borrow the SGL to compare with SR-Ω for all days in my DAVE and T8000 system. The SGL is amazing me. The same level sound stage with SR-Ω and perfect sound of high/mid/bass. Finally I decide to buy the SGL for my main headphone.

 

[ufospls2]

I had compared my SR-Ω with X9K for few days.
And these weekend I borrow the SGL to compare with SR-Ω for all days in my DAVE and T8000 system. I find the SGL need to remove the Plastic gasket in STAX 5 pins connector. Otherwise the high frequency will disappear and sound stage will be narrow. The SGL is amazing me. The same level sound stage with SR-Ω and perfect sound of high/mid/bass. Finally I decide to buy the SGL for my main headphone.

How would you describe it compared to the X9000 you heard? Interesting : )

 

[GYLIND]

The X9000 have colorful sound and natural bass like dynamic headphone. I think the resolution of the X9000 is also top. But for my taste, the SGL have bigger sound stage and image. So I chose it. Of course, the X9000 is good value. The craft of SGL is normal and price is very expensive.

 

[Jomungur]

Woo Audio was selling an open box VOCE at a discount, so I grabbed it. I've been running it on the Shangrila Sr. amp to compare to the Shangrila Sr. headphones. It's easy to A/B because the amp can run both at the same time. A few observations

1- The amp has plenty of power, drives both with ease. It better for that price.

2- I think more than any other headphones I've listened to, electrostatics are very dependent on the whole chain. Change a component in the chain, whether it's the amp, DAC, etc. and the sound noticeably changes. Unfortunately this makes it even more difficult to run proper comparisons because I don't think you can consider the electrostatic headphone separate from the amp set up. Maybe Sennheiser was wise to tie the HE-1 to its own system to control for this.

3- The VOCE is really nice. I like it. It is a different sound than the Shangrila Sr., more laidback like everyone says. But it is superb; smooth and very satisfying. My sense is the people who don't like it may not have been running it on the right amp. I like listening to the VOCE and will keep it; the Shangrila kind of demands your attention to just listen in dedicated sessions, the VOCE does not.

4. Is the Shangrila Sr. better than the VOCE? Yes, it has more detail, bigger soundstage, etc. Is the Shangrila Sr. six times better than the VOCE? No, it is not (you weren't expecting that, though, were you?).

 

[ThanatosVI]

Woo Audio was selling an open box VOCE at a discount, so I grabbed it. I've been running it on the Shangrila Sr. amp to compare to the Shangrila Sr. headphones. It's easy to A/B because the amp can run both at the same time. A few observations

1- The amp has plenty of power, drives both with ease. It better for that price.

2- I think more than any other headphones I've listened to, electrostatics are very dependent on the whole chain. Change a component in the chain, whether it's the amp, DAC, etc. and the sound noticeably changes. Unfortunately this makes it even more difficult to run proper comparisons because I don't think you can consider the electrostatic headphone separate from the amp set up. Maybe Sennheiser was wise to tie the HE-1 to its own system to control for this.

3- The VOCE is really nice. I like it. It is a different sound than the Shangrila Sr., more laidback like everyone says. But it is superb; smooth and very satisfying. My sense is the people who don't like it may not have been running it on the right amp. I like listening to the VOCE; the Shangrila kind of demands your attention to just listen, the VOCE does not.

4. Is the Shangrila Sr. better than the VOCE? Yes, it has more detail, bigger soundstage, etc. Is the Shangrila Sr. six times better than the VOCE? No, it is not (you weren't expecting that, though, were you?).

If you ever get a CRBN, please share your thoughts as well

 

[number1sixerfan]

If you ever get a CRBN, please share your thoughts as well

I excluded the CRBN v SGL in my last comparison because I've figured that many are tired of me comparing the SGL against much more affordable headphones lol. In honesty, it's an unfair comparison. There's a pretty considerable gap, but as mentioned above not at all 3x more $ of a gap. Biggest thing is that the SGL is much more open, with more impressive imaging, separation and detail. CRBN does have a smidge more bass (in comparison to the gap being a bit wider vs. the 009 in favor of the CRBN), and is a bit warmer/smoother. But technically, they're definitely in different leagues imho.

 

[Ciggavelli]

I excluded the CRBN v SGL in my last comparison because I've figured that many are tired of me comparing the SGL against much more affordable headphones lol. In honesty, it's an unfair comparison. There's a pretty considerable gap, but as mentioned above not at all 3x more $ of a gap. Biggest thing is that the SGL is much more open, with more impressive imaging, separation and detail. CRBN does have a smidge more bass (in comparison to the gap being a bit wider vs. the 009 in favor of the CRBN), and is a bit warmer/smoother. But technically, they're definitely in different leagues imho.

I’m very curious about the SGL. Thanks for comparing it to the CRBN. I’m very interested in your comparisons of the SGL and X9000 whenever you get it.

You’re right in that the CRBNs don’t have the imaging of the SR1as, TCs and Susvaras, but it is definitely better than the LCD-4. I haven’t tried the LCD-5 yet though.

I’m super into visualizing sound when listening to headphones, so a large soundstage and clear imaging are things I really want in a pair of headphones. If the SGL has similar bass as the CRBNs, while retaining that clarity and sense of space, they sound like some great headphones. I’ve been hoping for a pair of SR1as with adequate bass and sub-bass, and perhaps the SGL is that pair of headphones.

 

[ThanatosVI]

I excluded the CRBN v SGL in my last comparison because I've figured that many are tired of me comparing the SGL against much more affordable headphones lol. In honesty, it's an unfair comparison. There's a pretty considerable gap, but as mentioned above not at all 3x more $ of a gap. Biggest thing is that the SGL is much more open, with more impressive imaging, separation and detail. CRBN does have a smidge more bass (in comparison to the gap being a bit wider vs. the 009 in favor of the CRBN), and is a bit warmer/smoother. But technically, they're definitely in different leagues imho.

Thank you. I know the price difference is huge, but at this point we are well into statement and novelty tax territory
Smidge more Bass and warmer/smoother sounds like it fits my preferences.

Ideally I need someone to compare the CRBN to the Solitaire P, which is the most detailed of my headphones.

I like that the Shangri La Sr. Gets sold separately as well, makes it a realistic yet Distant possibility.

I’m very curious about the SGL. Thanks for comparing it to the CRBN. I’m very interested in your comparisons of the SGL and X9000 whenever you get it.

You’re right in that the CRBNs don’t have the imaging of the SR1as, TCs and Susvaras, but it is definitely better than the LCD-4. I haven’t tried the LCD-5 yet though.

I’m super into visualizing sound when listening to headphones, so a large soundstage and clear imaging are things I really want in a pair of headphones. If the SGL has similar bass as the CRBNs, while retaining that clarity and sense of space, they sound like some great headphones. I’ve been hoping for a pair of SR1as with adequate bass and sub-bass, and perhaps the SGL is that pair of headphones.

Well with the 3ES Elite you certainly have adequate amplification for the Shangri La Sr

 

[Sajid Amit]

Thank you. I know the price difference is huge, but at this point we are well into statement and novelty tax territory
Smidge more Bass and warmer/smoother sounds like it fits my preferences.

Ideally I need someone to compare the CRBN to the Solitaire P, which is the most detailed of my headphones.

I like that the Shangri La Sr. Gets sold separately as well, makes it a realistic yet Distant possibility.

Well with the 3ES Elite you certainly have adequate amplification for the Shangri La Sr

So I am interested in the SR myself.

The Arya-like housing of the drivers turned me off, as did some reports of how cheap the cable looks/feels.

But one also wonders if the peace of mind to be had by buying a SR and being done with the rabbit hole (for HPs at least; IEMs next, lol), is worth compromising on aesthetics and build for. I know @number1sixerfan said the build is superior to the Arya and all that (or I infer as much from previous posts).

Having lived with the SR for as long as you have, @number1sixerfan, how would you describe the SR’s:
1. Bass quality (texture, decay, naturalness)
2. Slam and overall sense of tactility to the sound (I know estats are limited in this area but wondering if HFM pulled off some voodoo magic)

And lastly, I know the SR replaced the Susvaras for you. In what ways is the SR similar to the Sus? The tonality/FR? I haven’t checked SR’s graphs yet, TBH.

 

[slefr]

So I am interested in the SR myself.

The Arya-like housing of the drivers turned me off, as did some reports of how cheap the cable looks/feels.

But one also wonders if the peace of mind to be had by buying a SR and being done with the rabbit hole (for HPs at least; IEMs next, lol), is worth compromising on aesthetics and build for. I know @number1sixerfan said the build is superior to the Arya and all that (or I infer as much from previous posts).

Having lived with the SR for as long as you have, @number1sixerfan, how would you describe the SR’s:
1. Bass quality (texture, decay, naturalness)
2. Slam and overall sense of tactility to the sound (I know estats are limited in this area but wondering if HFM pulled off some voodoo magic)

And lastly, I know the SR replaced the Susvaras for you. In what ways is the SR similar to the Sus? The tonality/FR? I haven’t checked SR’s graphs yet, TBH.

I’ve owned the SGL Sr for a few months now and I’m still in an honeymoon with it.

This is an amazing headphone with no flaws to my ears. While I was used to alternate before between my 1266TC and my SR1a, I do no longer feel the need to do so.

The SGL Sr has a bass to die for which is even tighter, more articulate than the one from the TC even if the latter has a bit more energy in the lowest registers.

The transparency, detail of the SGL Sr is second to none with a very delicate sound. The frequency response is more even, enjoyable than the ones from the RAAL or the Abyss.

The tonality is close to the Susvara but the SGL is a step above in resolution and overall coherence. If you like the Susvara, you cannot be disappointed by the SGL Sr.

The build could be better for the price, for sure, but after an initial fear about the cable, I finally don’t complain as the headphone seems built to last with minimum care.

I’ve tried to EQ the SGL Sr, following for instance the Orartory settings, but without improvements, the headphone losing its magic in the medium highs.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I’m very curious about the SGL. Thanks for comparing it to the CRBN. I’m very interested in your comparisons of the SGL and X9000 whenever you get it.

You’re right in that the CRBNs don’t have the imaging of the SR1as, TCs and Susvaras, but it is definitely better than the LCD-4. I haven’t tried the LCD-5 yet though.

I’m super into visualizing sound when listening to headphones, so a large soundstage and clear imaging are things I really want in a pair of headphones. If the SGL has similar bass as the CRBNs, while retaining that clarity and sense of space, they sound like some great headphones. I’ve been hoping for a pair of SR1as with adequate bass and sub-bass, and perhaps the SGL is that pair of headphones.

Yea the CRBN is still impressive and enjoyable in that regard even though it isn't at the head of the pack. I am dying to get the x9000 just for the sake of this comparison. I do have a hunch that the Stax will come a bit closer to the SGL's performance without as steep of a price, although with a different style. SGL definitely is not laid back or relaxed, as the x9000 has been described.

And yea, that's kind of a good way to think about it. The SGL has the same technical prowess of the Sr1a (minus the soundstage/openness), but with much more weight to the music and considerably better bass. That said, it's still stat bass lol. I would like just a bit more impact in the SGL, but overall the bass is really, really good. I haven't used the Raal much at all since having the SGL, as the latter feels like a step up in refinement and cohesiveness.

Thank you. I know the price difference is huge, but at this point we are well into statement and novelty tax territory
Smidge more Bass and warmer/smoother sounds like it fits my preferences.

I did some additional back and forth yesterday, and it's really close. But the CRBN has a bit stronger mid-bass impact which I do really like. It seems like the SGL has a bit better low extension, but the slightly better impact on the CRBN for me is favorable. But it's tough, it's really close. I think my expectations of the CRBN's bass were too high because of the original thread, but I think it's really excellent for a stat.

So I am interested in the SR myself.

The Arya-like housing of the drivers turned me off, as did some reports of how cheap the cable looks/feels.

But one also wonders if the peace of mind to be had by buying a SR and being done with the rabbit hole (for HPs at least; IEMs next, lol), is worth compromising on aesthetics and build for. I know @number1sixerfan said the build is superior to the Arya and all that (or I infer as much from previous posts).

Having lived with the SR for as long as you have, @number1sixerfan, how would you describe the SR’s:
1. Bass quality (texture, decay, naturalness)
2. Slam and overall sense of tactility to the sound (I know estats are limited in this area but wondering if HFM pulled off some voodoo magic)

And lastly, I know the SR replaced the Susvaras for you. In what ways is the SR similar to the Sus? The tonality/FR? I haven’t checked SR’s graphs yet, TBH.

I hate how cheap the SGL looks for the price. I really do. In it of itself, it does not feel cheap and feels reliable, but for the price there's just no excuse--should be more high fidelity. For reference, it feels and looks a bit nicer than the Susvara, but not by much.

The quality of the bass is excellent. It really is. It's similar to the Susvara and a touch lighter in terms of impact and slam. That's the only thing I'd say I wish there was just a bit more of. I do wonder if the DIY T2 will boost that a bit. As far as the Susvara v. SGL overall, they have a lot of similarities. The biggest thing they share is that they are both really complete headphones. There are no real flaws in either. But the SGL significantly improves on openness and separation. This makes imaging and detail stand out a bit more, and there's also a bit more weight/density to the music. So there's more realism to the music. Lastly, the biggest difference between the two is tonality. The SGL has more energy and is just a bit brighter (but in a good way, not actually bright, more so neutral), whereas the Susvara is a bit polite and more laid back/smooth. After a few weeks, the first thing I mentioned was that the SGL seems like a mashup of the 009/Susvara and on steroids.. and I still think that's really accurate.

I'll definitely do more comparisons once I have all of the amps on hand.