HIFIMAN Shangri-La: The New Electrostatic Headphones From HIFIMAN
Jun 15, 2022 at 5:07 PM Post #811 of 1,057
I agree about the Sr.'s. I'm not using the official amp, but I am using a 300B Woo Audio 3ES Elite. They Sr.'s are just amazing headphones. They do everything so well. I guess the SR1as have a larger soundstage with more depth, but other than that the SGLs are better at everything else. I always want more bass, and only the TCs give me what I want in that regard. The SGL bass is fine though, as there is actually sub-bass (though it's not as prominent as the CRBNs). I can't really come up with any complaints other than that. The resolution on the SGL is so high that it actually makes the TCs sound veiled in comparison (which is crazy because the TCs aren't veiled at all).
 
Jun 15, 2022 at 5:10 PM Post #812 of 1,057
I agree about the Sr.'s. I'm not using the official amp, but I am using a 300B Woo Audio 3ES Elite. They Sr.'s are just amazing headphones. They do everything so well. I guess the SR1as have a larger soundstage with more depth, but other than that the SGLs are better at everything else. I always want more bass, and only the TCs give me what I want in that regard. The SGL bass is fine though, as there is actually sub-bass (though it's not as prominent as the CRBNs). I can't really come up with any complaints other than that. The resolution on the SGL is so high that it actually makes the TCs sound veiled in comparison (which is crazy because the TCs aren't veiled at all).
Now you've got to try the SR1a with a 300B pre. I'd recommend you also drive it with Uberamp -- this combination is so far ahead any headphone.

Definitely in the 300B camp. Elrogs ruined me.
 
Jun 15, 2022 at 5:17 PM Post #813 of 1,057
Hi, I wanted to update my thoughts on the Shangrila Sr. system after using it for 9 months. I realize it’s a pretty small universe of people who are considering this, but hopefully it’s interesting nonetheless.

1- No problems thus far. Nothing has broken, cracked or given a problem. Extremely comfortable.

2- Do yourself a favor and buy a official Stax extension cable (the licorice kind) and use that as the main connector into the amp. I found no degradation in sound quality from doing this and it gives you a lot of flexibility. It also allows you to relax because you’re no longer worried about tripping up the cord and ruining your headphones (granted, the base length of the headphones is a generous 6 feet but still).

3- These are my end game headphones. I’m looking at my collection right now: the CRBN, VOCE, Utopia, Stellia, Susvara, Ananda BT, Sundara, as well as numerous cables, amps, etc. I picked up on the way as I was trying to chase that ultimate sound. Not to mention stuff I tried but didn’t like so much like the Abyss. But I listen to none of my other headphones now, even though to be honest they are all quite good in their own way. The Shangrila just beats them in every respect. For walking around or airplanes I just use an Airpods Max because of the convenience, transparency mode and noise cancellation.

4- If you’re thinking about these, you’re also thinking about the Sennsheiser HE-1s. I haven’t heard those in a long time so I can’t say too about the sound. But the Shangrila system is modular, you can switch out DACs, cables, etc. If you’re on this forum my guess is you’re someone who likes to swap components in the audio chain and fine-tune things in the quest for sonic perfection. You can do this with the Shangrila, you can’t with the Sennheisers.

5- The amp is fantastic, even though it’s super expensive. One of the criticisms of electrostatics is that they can sound technically amazing but come across as cold, even lifeless (I want to note, though, that the VOCE goes against the grain here – it sounds quite warm for an electrostat- and the CRBN to some extent). It’s no accident that most electrostatic amps use tubes to add warmth.

The Shangrila amp has four 300B tubes which are among the most musical tubes around. The stock tubes (custom Fullmusic tubes) are great, but you can enhance the sound with even higher end ones. Right now I am using 4 WE 300Bs (the new production) but have also the Takatsuki 300Bs, and they are both amazing. The amp convinced me to invest in an Airtight 300B amp for my loudspeakers, and there’s no going back for me. Additionally, you can adjust the bias in the Shangrila amp if you are a bit daring, and this, too, changes the sound. (You have to do this if you swap tubes).

6- 300b tubes do run warm, however, so the amp produces a good amount of heat. Something to keep in mind if you are listening in a small room without air conditioning. This is where an extension cable can be really helpful, as you can have the amp far away from where you listen if it bothers you.

7- Audiophiles are funny beasts. I don’t know why the online discussions get so heated, but I think it comes down to people accusing others of not really hearing what they claim to be hearing. For sure there’s a lot of junk out there, and I’ve tried quite a few things which I thought made a difference but, after a period of time, I had to admit that they do not. At the same time, it’s also tough because you can really only know how good an audio system sounds after repeated sessions over weeks. There are just too many variables at play to judge on just a few sessions (mood, how much sleep you got last night, environmental noise, blood sugar levels, even the song you heard just before the one you are listening to now, etc.). Transparency sounds great in theory but sound can be too transparent, just like a video that has its sharpness set to max can look unnatural. Distortion sounds bad but actually almost all of the noise you naturally hear has some distortion. Some systems can actually add harmonics, etc. that make a recording sound better than what it’d be like if you were in the recording room. Is that “unnaturalness” something to avoid, or something that is as much a part of the art of music listening as the music itself?

I don't know if I can say it's a perfect system, but I can say that, more than any other system I've had: (1) my listening sessions with it go long past my original plans even after months, (2) it can get me out of any bad mood I'm in and (3) my friends seem to be stopping by more and more just to listen to it.
Thank you for Posting these impressions, there really isn't much to read about these ultra high end Systems.

Regarding 3)
I really wonder why you keep the Sundara. Was it one of your First headphones that brought you into high fidelity and therefore have some sentimental value?

Regarding 4)
The He1 can use external DACs if you want to. While it has an excellent internal DAC, you're not forced to use it. Tube Rolling isn't comfortable tho, so that point certainly goes to the Shangri La
 
Jun 15, 2022 at 5:17 PM Post #814 of 1,057
Now you've got to try the SR1a with a 300B pre. I'd recommend you also drive it with Uberamp -- this combination is so far ahead any headphone.

Definitely in the 300B camp. Elrogs ruined me.
I actually sold the SR1a, which I've started to regret... I'm contemplating buying the SR1b and their other new headphones. I'll probably pick up both in the coming months, if I'm being honest. People warned me about selling the SR1a, and I guess they might have been right :face_palm:

I did try the SR1a with the 3ES Elite pre to my old HSA-1b. It did sound good, and I definitely preferred the 3ES and it's 300B tubes as a pre compared to my WA33. I'm curious about the Uberamp and also Raal/Requisite's new tube amp.
 
Jun 15, 2022 at 5:39 PM Post #815 of 1,057
I agree about the Sr.'s. I'm not using the official amp, but I am using a 300B Woo Audio 3ES Elite. They Sr.'s are just amazing headphones. They do everything so well. I guess the SR1as have a larger soundstage with more depth, but other than that the SGLs are better at everything else. I always want more bass, and only the TCs give me what I want in that regard. The SGL bass is fine though, as there is actually sub-bass (though it's not as prominent as the CRBNs). I can't really come up with any complaints other than that. The resolution on the SGL is so high that it actually makes the TCs sound veiled in comparison (which is crazy because the TCs aren't veiled at all).
Is the susvara even worth keeping now you have the shang SR?
 
Jun 15, 2022 at 5:43 PM Post #816 of 1,057
Is the susvara even worth keeping now you have the shang SR?
I've definitely been contemplating that. The Susvara is more laid back sounding than the SGL, which gives another flavor to my collection. I really like the Susvaras with harsh sounding and poorly recorded albums (like what you get with a lot of black metal). Due to that, I'm probably going to keep them, as I am a fan of a lot of black metal.
 
Jun 15, 2022 at 5:52 PM Post #817 of 1,057
I actually sold the SR1a, which I've started to regret... I'm contemplating buying the SR1b and their other new headphones. I'll probably pick up both in the coming months, if I'm being honest. People warned me about selling the SR1a, and I guess they might have been right :face_palm:

I did try the SR1a with the 3ES Elite pre to my old HSA-1b. It did sound good, and I definitely preferred the 3ES and it's 300B tubes as a pre compared to my WA33. I'm curious about the Uberamp and also Raal/Requisite's new tube amp.
The carousel is unending.
 
Jun 16, 2022 at 9:49 AM Post #818 of 1,057
Thank you for Posting these impressions, there really isn't much to read about these ultra high end Systems.

Regarding 3)
I really wonder why you keep the Sundara. Was it one of your First headphones that brought you into high fidelity and therefore have some sentimental value?

Regarding 4)
The He1 can use external DACs if you want to. While it has an excellent internal DAC, you're not forced to use it. Tube Rolling isn't comfortable tho, so that point certainly goes to the Shangri La
On #3. Yes, an early headphone. I also wanted to try the different cup design. To be honest I need to get rid of these headphones, I've been lazy on selling them. The Sundara is pretty good, actually.

On #4. I didn't realize that, thanks for the correction. I was confused because I don't think you can just buy the headphones, right, you have to buy their DAC too? I think their amp is pretty opaque as well, doesn't seem like they want you switching tubes and they mysteriously want you to put all each individual tube in a specified order.
 
Jun 16, 2022 at 10:01 AM Post #819 of 1,057
On #3. Yes, an early headphone. I also wanted to try the different cup design. To be honest I need to get rid of these headphones, I've been lazy on selling them. The Sundara is pretty good, actually.

On #4. I didn't realize that, thanks for the correction. I was confused because I don't think you can just buy the headphones, right, you have to buy their DAC too? I think their amp is pretty opaque as well, doesn't seem like they want you switching tubes and they mysteriously want you to put all each individual tube in a specified order.
Yeah you can't buy the headphones without the DAC/Amp.

The actual energizer is in the headphones, which is unique to the He1. So the headphones and Amplifier are incompatible to any other estat combination.
There is also no option to buy it without the DAC but you can use the analogue input to connect external DACs.
(You can also use analogue out to use the Senheiser DAC with other amplifiers)
 
Jun 16, 2022 at 10:48 AM Post #820 of 1,057
Yeah you can't buy the headphones without the DAC/Amp.

The actual energizer is in the headphones, which is unique to the He1. So the headphones and Amplifier are incompatible to any other estat combination.
There is also no option to buy it without the DAC but you can use the analogue input to connect external DACs.
(You can also use analogue out to use the Senheiser DAC with other amplifiers)
And idea if the analogue input of HE1 converts back to digital like the warwick aperio reportedly does?
 
Jun 16, 2022 at 11:27 AM Post #821 of 1,057
And idea if the analogue input of HE1 converts back to digital like the warwick aperio reportedly does?
Not 100% sure but I don't think so.
 
Jun 16, 2022 at 1:54 PM Post #822 of 1,057
Similarly as to the recent posts in this thread.. I've had the SGL Sr. now for I think 7-8 months. Up until the x9000 that I got a few months ago, I was pretty consistently using them about 90% of overall head time. With these added, the usage is still pretty high, closer to 70-80% I would say, with the stax making up a good difference. The sound is just refined and more technically competent beyond a level that anything else I have offers (x9000 does come close, hence the head time). The T2 has really made this worse, as it scaled up quite a bit from what I had prior.

On the Sr1a (which I have really struggled with weekly on keeping or not lol), I just can't see any amp pushing its performance in the neighborhood of the SGL. It just doesn't have certain capabilities (Density of sound for instruments and vocals), cohesion of the music/presentation, bass, etc.), and amplification isn't going to change that. Imo the gap is just too wide. Now if someone simply prefers the open nature of the Raal and the perceived clarity that comes with it due to the open design that's another story and can totally understand that. In either event, I would also like to try some of the new amps. The main reason I haven't sold it is due to what I just mentioned--the uniqueness of the design which does give it an edge in openness over the SGL.

In any event, it's really cool seeing the SGL Sr. in more hands on this site and the impressions that are following. :)
 
Jun 16, 2022 at 2:38 PM Post #824 of 1,057
Similarly as to the recent posts in this thread.. I've had the SGL Sr. now for I think 7-8 months. Up until the x9000 that I got a few months ago, I was pretty consistently using them about 90% of overall head time. With these added, the usage is still pretty high, closer to 70-80% I would say, with the stax making up a good difference. The sound is just refined and more technically competent beyond a level that anything else I have offers (x9000 does come close, hence the head time). The T2 has really made this worse, as it scaled up quite a bit from what I had prior.

On the Sr1a (which I have really struggled with weekly on keeping or not lol), I just can't see any amp pushing its performance in the neighborhood of the SGL. It just doesn't have certain capabilities (Density of sound for instruments and vocals), cohesion of the music/presentation, bass, etc.), and amplification isn't going to change that. Imo the gap is just too wide. Now if someone simply prefers the open nature of the Raal and the perceived clarity that comes with it due to the open design that's another story and can totally understand that. In either event, I would also like to try some of the new amps. The main reason I haven't sold it is due to what I just mentioned--the uniqueness of the design which does give it an edge in openness over the SGL.

In any event, it's really cool seeing the SGL Sr. in more hands on this site and the impressions that are following. :)
If you can't get ears on the Uberamp -- since you are also in California, take the trip to to RAAL, go listen to their VM-1a, you will get a taste how how well they scale, how much they'll solidify, and how much the gap widens of any headphone in resolution, speed, staging. The contrary then becomes a preference, how much you prefer a more intimate sound, a more pressurized bass.

And I say that as one who owned the DIY T2. STAX or electrostats can't compete with a fully optimized ribbon, nothing can.
 
Jun 16, 2022 at 2:42 PM Post #825 of 1,057
STAX or electrostats can't compete with a fully optimized ribbon, nothing can.
Why is this the case? What makes ribbon technology superior?
 

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