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Thanks, I just ordered the game amp. Video is great, looks simple.
HiFiMAN HM-801: Desktop-Class Digital Sound, To Go
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Hero Kid
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Man oh man, wall of text!
Extremely well written review, although I faltered during some sections, I was enticed enough to read every word.
Quote:
As long as you are above ~21 years of age, I strongly recommend you go for some high end custom IEMs (JH or EarSonics), rather than the beastly HM-801.
You don't seem like a fool, but it can be easy to get carried away on this forum and end up buying products without thinking of the consequences.
Extremely well written review, although I faltered during some sections, I was enticed enough to read every word.
Quote:
JoetheArachnid said:
For the first time, I actually almost want one of these beasts. Arguably it's a bad plan because the rest of my gear is hopelessly mismatched for it, but when has that ever managed to stop a rampant audiophile?
As long as you are above ~21 years of age, I strongly recommend you go for some high end custom IEMs (JH or EarSonics), rather than the beastly HM-801.
You don't seem like a fool, but it can be easy to get carried away on this forum and end up buying products without thinking of the consequences.
JoetheArachnid
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Quote:
I was joking... mostly.
But it makes little odds since I won't even have the cash to afford one for a long long time. Most of the reason for that will be because funds will be filtered out and spent on a decent full-size rig and some other bits and bobs, like (cheap) portable amps and such. Don't worry, I know where my audio priorities lie.
And no, eighteen in January. Also I want to get my hands on some CK10s before I go anywhere near customs...
I was joking... mostly.
But it makes little odds since I won't even have the cash to afford one for a long long time. Most of the reason for that will be because funds will be filtered out and spent on a decent full-size rig and some other bits and bobs, like (cheap) portable amps and such. Don't worry, I know where my audio priorities lie.
And no, eighteen in January. Also I want to get my hands on some CK10s before I go anywhere near customs...
dj nellie
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Excellent review. After a few months of ownership of the HM-801, I'm definitely very happy. I'll share my experiences with it, because I have a feeling I'm not alone with what I went through.
I was surprised and a bit disappointed when I first got the HM-801 to see how poor the volume control was with my JH16s. In addition, there was a constant clicking noise audible in quiet passages of music when playing off the SD card, and whenever I touched the top part of the player, I would hear a ringing noise.
I had read reports of there being a new version of the ST card with better volume control, so I contacted Fang and he graciously offered to replace my player. After sending away the HM-801, I spent a few confusing weeks dealing with customer service to find out what was happening. During that time, Head-Direct announced that it would replace all 1.0 (stock) cards with a new version 2.0 card, which was intended to address at least some of the problems I (and I'm sure others) had with the ST 1.0 card. The 2.0 card fixed the clicking noise, but channel imbalance was still a problem, the ringing noise was still clearly audible, and the volume floor was still too high out of the headphone out with my JH16s (not as much of an issue with my IE8s).
After seeing no other solution, I bought the GAME amp a few weeks ago, and the volume control is definitely improved to the point where it's tolerable in quiet environments. I'd still like a little more volume range; I'm not sure if Fang owns a pair of JH13/16, but it doesn't seem like the HM-801 was designed or tested with IEMS that are this sensitive or isolate quite this much. Moreover, I still experience the ringing noise whenever I touch the top part of the player--it seems to be some kind of frequency interference occurring near the amp card.
I think, ideally, Head-Direct should offer the HM-801 with the option to choose which amp card you want, based on whether you mostly plan to use it with full-size headphones or custom IEMs. The volume control issue is a non-factor if you plan to use the line-out to an external amp, but I suspect many of us are buying the HM-801 as an all-in-one solution for portability (and cost-effectiveness).
As for the firmware, there are well-documented complaints about the lack of gapless playback, playlists, and (my biggest issue) the lack of ability to navigate by folder (MSC mode?), which is very useful for songs which aren't ID tagged or if you want to make your own collection or playlist of music by putting songs in a particular folder. But the "My Favorites" option is a tolerable stand-in for a custom playlist option. And I recently discovered that you can listen to songs which aren't ID tagged together with other songs in the folder they're in, by playing a song in the folder, turning the player off and back on, pressing the (top left) "Back" button from the main menu, then pressing the (middle) "Play" button. When doing this, rather than continue to play all songs on the player randomly (since the only way to play a non-tagged song is by finding it randomly in "Tracks" mode or naming it something you can easily find), the HM-801 will only play songs in the folder where the current song is.
I also wish the HM-801 had more on-board memory space. I realize that the high-quality components take up a lot of physical space, leaving little room for on-board memory, but I'd rather have more capacity without having to swap SD cards--I like having a huge collection of diverse music which I can shuffle through. Finally, the player gets disturbingly hot, especially when plugged into the charger but even when used portably. This can be a bit of an annoyance if you've stuffed the HM-801 into your pocket on a hot day.
Alright, now that I've gotten my complaints with the HM-801 out of the way (phew), I'll go into why I love this thing so much. One feature that isn't widely discussed is its ability to serve as a USB DAC for your computer. To preserve your battery for portable use, you can simply remove the battery and power the player in DAC mode with the wall charger. The sound quality I get from the HM-801 as a USB DAC with my Denon D2000s and amped with the RSA Protector was a pleasant surprise, and it easily rivals (if not surpasses) the other dedicated USB DAC I use to have, the iBasso D4.
When it's time to leave the house, I can simply unplug the HM-801, pop in a battery, and my desktop DAC is instantly converted into an immensely enjoyable portable player. The sound quality with the HM-801 and my JH16s just isn't comparable to any other portable player I've ever heard; the sense of space, the power and realism in the sound, and the level of micro-detail are stunning. I used to think the Cowon S9 was the best that portable audio could sound. I still like the S9, but in comparison to the HM-801, it sounds thin, flat and 2-dimensional.
I realize that I've spent most of this space pointing out the HM-801's flaws and some of the annoyances I've had to deal with, but that's only because the player's praises have been sung quite thoroughly already. I think prospective buyers should hear some of the drawbacks--beyond the flaws noted in a certain interesting, but for me ultimately useless, discussion about frequency graphs and quantitative tests. The HM-801 seems to have garnered quite a bit of skepticism and even venomous ridicule, perhaps because of its (by mass-market standards) outrageous price tag, perhaps because of its odd size and shape, or perhaps because of the seemingly unrealistic raves it has received from some owners.
But Fang has achieved something remarkable with the HM-801. If you can live with the drawbacks I and others have pointed out, I think the HM-801's versatility and sound quality actually make it a reasonable, if not outstanding, value proposition.
I was surprised and a bit disappointed when I first got the HM-801 to see how poor the volume control was with my JH16s. In addition, there was a constant clicking noise audible in quiet passages of music when playing off the SD card, and whenever I touched the top part of the player, I would hear a ringing noise.
I had read reports of there being a new version of the ST card with better volume control, so I contacted Fang and he graciously offered to replace my player. After sending away the HM-801, I spent a few confusing weeks dealing with customer service to find out what was happening. During that time, Head-Direct announced that it would replace all 1.0 (stock) cards with a new version 2.0 card, which was intended to address at least some of the problems I (and I'm sure others) had with the ST 1.0 card. The 2.0 card fixed the clicking noise, but channel imbalance was still a problem, the ringing noise was still clearly audible, and the volume floor was still too high out of the headphone out with my JH16s (not as much of an issue with my IE8s).
After seeing no other solution, I bought the GAME amp a few weeks ago, and the volume control is definitely improved to the point where it's tolerable in quiet environments. I'd still like a little more volume range; I'm not sure if Fang owns a pair of JH13/16, but it doesn't seem like the HM-801 was designed or tested with IEMS that are this sensitive or isolate quite this much. Moreover, I still experience the ringing noise whenever I touch the top part of the player--it seems to be some kind of frequency interference occurring near the amp card.
I think, ideally, Head-Direct should offer the HM-801 with the option to choose which amp card you want, based on whether you mostly plan to use it with full-size headphones or custom IEMs. The volume control issue is a non-factor if you plan to use the line-out to an external amp, but I suspect many of us are buying the HM-801 as an all-in-one solution for portability (and cost-effectiveness).
As for the firmware, there are well-documented complaints about the lack of gapless playback, playlists, and (my biggest issue) the lack of ability to navigate by folder (MSC mode?), which is very useful for songs which aren't ID tagged or if you want to make your own collection or playlist of music by putting songs in a particular folder. But the "My Favorites" option is a tolerable stand-in for a custom playlist option. And I recently discovered that you can listen to songs which aren't ID tagged together with other songs in the folder they're in, by playing a song in the folder, turning the player off and back on, pressing the (top left) "Back" button from the main menu, then pressing the (middle) "Play" button. When doing this, rather than continue to play all songs on the player randomly (since the only way to play a non-tagged song is by finding it randomly in "Tracks" mode or naming it something you can easily find), the HM-801 will only play songs in the folder where the current song is.
I also wish the HM-801 had more on-board memory space. I realize that the high-quality components take up a lot of physical space, leaving little room for on-board memory, but I'd rather have more capacity without having to swap SD cards--I like having a huge collection of diverse music which I can shuffle through. Finally, the player gets disturbingly hot, especially when plugged into the charger but even when used portably. This can be a bit of an annoyance if you've stuffed the HM-801 into your pocket on a hot day.
Alright, now that I've gotten my complaints with the HM-801 out of the way (phew), I'll go into why I love this thing so much. One feature that isn't widely discussed is its ability to serve as a USB DAC for your computer. To preserve your battery for portable use, you can simply remove the battery and power the player in DAC mode with the wall charger. The sound quality I get from the HM-801 as a USB DAC with my Denon D2000s and amped with the RSA Protector was a pleasant surprise, and it easily rivals (if not surpasses) the other dedicated USB DAC I use to have, the iBasso D4.
When it's time to leave the house, I can simply unplug the HM-801, pop in a battery, and my desktop DAC is instantly converted into an immensely enjoyable portable player. The sound quality with the HM-801 and my JH16s just isn't comparable to any other portable player I've ever heard; the sense of space, the power and realism in the sound, and the level of micro-detail are stunning. I used to think the Cowon S9 was the best that portable audio could sound. I still like the S9, but in comparison to the HM-801, it sounds thin, flat and 2-dimensional.
I realize that I've spent most of this space pointing out the HM-801's flaws and some of the annoyances I've had to deal with, but that's only because the player's praises have been sung quite thoroughly already. I think prospective buyers should hear some of the drawbacks--beyond the flaws noted in a certain interesting, but for me ultimately useless, discussion about frequency graphs and quantitative tests. The HM-801 seems to have garnered quite a bit of skepticism and even venomous ridicule, perhaps because of its (by mass-market standards) outrageous price tag, perhaps because of its odd size and shape, or perhaps because of the seemingly unrealistic raves it has received from some owners.
But Fang has achieved something remarkable with the HM-801. If you can live with the drawbacks I and others have pointed out, I think the HM-801's versatility and sound quality actually make it a reasonable, if not outstanding, value proposition.
Trogdor
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To preserve your battery? Huh? I don't understand why you have to take it out if the unit is always connected to the wall unit. Did I miss something?
MarkTwain
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I am using my Hifiman HM-801 with JH16Pro, but mostly line-out to RSA Protector with TWag cables in all connection (including Oyaide Rhodium plugs for the IC).
Occassionally, I will test out the headphone out with another cables for my JH16. Didn't encounter the noise you described. Will test out tomorrow since I left the rig in my office.
Perhaps mine is a newer set (May 2010 set, but with Dual PCM1704UK chip) and this has been resolved?
Anyway, have been enjoying it since the investment. Sounds really great!
Have read alot on the clip+ and have been using the clip+ for my workout time (no choice as need a light mp3 for jogging), while using my 801 for all other times. Though some of the reviews mentioned the strength of the neutrality of the clip+, but I have both set for quite some times now, and realised that I will always go back to my 801.
Anybody can do a detailed review of the Game module, as I thought of buying a set with the spare battery and smaller charger!
Cheers,
Mark
Occassionally, I will test out the headphone out with another cables for my JH16. Didn't encounter the noise you described. Will test out tomorrow since I left the rig in my office.
Perhaps mine is a newer set (May 2010 set, but with Dual PCM1704UK chip) and this has been resolved?
Anyway, have been enjoying it since the investment. Sounds really great!
Have read alot on the clip+ and have been using the clip+ for my workout time (no choice as need a light mp3 for jogging), while using my 801 for all other times. Though some of the reviews mentioned the strength of the neutrality of the clip+, but I have both set for quite some times now, and realised that I will always go back to my 801.
Anybody can do a detailed review of the Game module, as I thought of buying a set with the spare battery and smaller charger!
Cheers,
Mark
travisg
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Iam anxious to see what other amp modules Fang has for us in the future.
JoetheArachnid
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Quote:
Generally if you have a rechargable battery that is being constantly charged/discharged it will degrade quite quickly. It's much better to cycle a battery (ie run it down completely then charge it fully) as this will keep the battery in best condition. Even if the player is not running off the battery as it is charged (which would be kind of a stupid setup anyway) the battery will slowly lose charge over time then be recharged immediately.
It's like having a pitcher of beer that you only ever pour out the a glassfull from and then fill it up again. The pitcher will always be full but some of the beer will be in that jug for a long time and will stagnate and go nasty. It's much better to drink all the beer, rinse out the jug and then fill it up again fully.
Generally if you have a rechargable battery that is being constantly charged/discharged it will degrade quite quickly. It's much better to cycle a battery (ie run it down completely then charge it fully) as this will keep the battery in best condition. Even if the player is not running off the battery as it is charged (which would be kind of a stupid setup anyway) the battery will slowly lose charge over time then be recharged immediately.
It's like having a pitcher of beer that you only ever pour out the a glassfull from and then fill it up again. The pitcher will always be full but some of the beer will be in that jug for a long time and will stagnate and go nasty. It's much better to drink all the beer, rinse out the jug and then fill it up again fully.
Jian
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Great dap/dac it is, I still think this review is a bit over exaggerated. Two things I'm not too sure about judging from my own experiences. I will not use it as a desktop dac since it is really just on an entry level as a standalone dac, and cannot match some of the 3000+ dollar cd players I've experienced. I wouldn’t bother with either amp module since I don't think they can sufficiently drive some of the top tier headphones (including T5p) and they do not match any of the portable amps I own or have tried, such as P51/SR71A/protector/RX. Those said, I do really think the 801 is the best portable player at the moment and they do sound amazing in its territory.
11amaberry
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Wow, that's the best illustration for battery preservation I've heard/seen! Lol!
Hero Kid
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warp08
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Excellent review, Jude. Fully agree that the HM-801 DAC is excellent as a desktop device. In a lurch it can certainly be internally powered, but the internal battery of the HM-801 rapidly discharges even if the player is just in standby (assuming Auto Power-Off is disabled). But you still get 5-6 hours of continuous playback from it.
If you plan to purchase 32GB SDHC cards here is the one you need to get that is fully compatible (Amazon link included): http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/450722/hifiman-hm-801-sdhc-card-list/15#post_6886890
This was like the 5th one that was finally found to be fully compatible.
If you plan to purchase 32GB SDHC cards here is the one you need to get that is fully compatible (Amazon link included): http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/450722/hifiman-hm-801-sdhc-card-list/15#post_6886890
This was like the 5th one that was finally found to be fully compatible.
runswithaliens
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Thanks for the detailed review Jude. Now that I see that this uses a pair of the PCM1704uk DACs I wonder how it would do (as a desktop DAC) in a comparison to the popular Audio-GD DAC-19 which also uses the same?!?!. If the sound is competitive then it would seem like this is priced very well considering it's many other features.
GreenLeo
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This is true for NiCd and NiMh batteries and may not be true for Li battery. Nevertheless I believe the 801 uses the Ni batteries and full discharge/charge cycles should be good practices.
Quote:
GreenLeo
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Isn't that comparing a 800 dollar multi-purpose DAP to a 3000+ dollar uni-purpose cd player an example to show the superiority of the 801 as a DAC? I'm not disagreeing/agreeing to your statement that "this review is a bit over exaggerated" but just cannot truly understand the logic. Can you elaborate a bit?
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