[TWerk]

I also settled away from the HE6SE because of amping requirements, after owning them several times. I prefer HE-500 because they are so much easier to power across a far wider range of amps than the 6SE.

The hardest part of owning a 6SE I think is amping it and you have to think about that when you buy them and consider it carefully. Even when you get an amp, you may still have questions as to whether what you have is "good enough" for them.

IMO the 6 and 6SE are rather picky with amplification, at least compared to most other cans - and it is (to me) a negative of going with this particular model or recommending them as an ideal pick across the board to folks.

YMMV.

 

[bagwell359]

The 400, 400i, 4XX, 400 stealth can all run on a DAP or a good cell.

The 500 actually has amp requirements of its own. The 6 @50 ohms i'd recommend 3 wpc min, which these days isn't that difficult or expensive to obtain - unlike in 2010. Like all the magneostatic speakers I owned and some cans it likes lots of current. Class A best, but a hammer of an AB amp does the job too.

The reason I like the 6 SE is that they are more technical than the 500 with better bass impact.under 50 Hz. The 500 needs lots of mods to not be overly warm and have the ultra too long cymbal decay. I really like my modded 500's but the 6 SE tells more truth.

 

[TWerk]

The 500 has warm beautiful mids unmatched by just about anything I have heard. I don't find them overly warm either although I do find the warmth to give them very pleasing sound. I feel like the technical ability of the edition XS is quite good. It is clear, crisp and detailed but I'm someone who listens for enjoyment and I rank technical ability lower, personally.

The OG 400 is fun with strong and punchy bass. Underrated nowadays IMO.

For me, XS is my technical listen, but I understand people who like more technical headphones can go further down that road.

 

[pongpaktech]

Yes, the bass of the 6 SE (either rev) is fast and nimble with nice timbre. It does not have the impact of the Phi or the OG 6 screw. It also rings less in the treble than the OG 6. The main drawbacks are that:
* it needs lots of current - without it it sounds meek
* it's technical.enough to show the difference between a Class A amp and others.
* it does not have a great soundstage
* it needs EQ, in particular if you listen to well recorded female singers.
* the pads and cables are what you expect for sub $100 cans. Need upgrades.
* the Ether Angled are the best pads I've heard on them, but need no or more open then stock rear screens to really bloom. Clarity is increased, and the stage gets wider.

Yeah definitely agree with your points. I ran the HE6SE v2 for a bit without EQ but then I tested Oratory 1990's EQ and yeah the sound signature improved especially in the mids. Within the first week I got a new set of cables from Hart Audio and got the Dekoni Elite Velour Pads which are much more comfy. I'm still deciding on what mod to do with the screens (thinking of maybe designing my own pattern to get manufactured but my wallet is a little sad after the Beta 22 build). I the sound stage is plenty for me right now and the Beta 22 also improved the separation.

 

[bagwell359]

Yeah definitely agree with your points. I ran the HE6SE v2 for a bit without EQ but then I tested Oratory 1990's EQ and yeah the sound signature improved especially in the mids. Within the first week I got a new set of cables from Hart Audio and got the Dekoni Elite Velour Pads which are much more comfy. I'm still deciding on what mod to do with the screens (thinking of maybe designing my own pattern to get manufactured but my wallet is a little sad after the Beta 22 build). I the sound stage is plenty for me right now and the Beta 22 also improved the separation.

Beta 22 seems pretty interesting. Are you doing Oratory 100%? Can you PM or post it?

 

[pongpaktech]

Beta 22 seems pretty interesting. Are you doing Oratory 100%? Can you PM or post it?

Like 99% oratory. Everything is "stock"except that I'm still playing around with the bass shelf a bit to find a sweet spot

Here's a link to the EQ https://www.dropbox.com/s/0kdq2tc7yno9rwa/Hifiman HE6se V2.pdf

 

[NascentAP]

You guys are comparing closed cans to open cans. Air control on closed headphones is better and they slam harder all else being equal.

It is not dynamic vs. planar but rather closed vs. open.

For a planar that slams well I like the LCD-2C (classic).

Interesting. With all things being equal, I always had the impression that the driver design has more to do with dynamics/bass response.

Admittedly, I have not heard any of the hifi/summit fi gear but I am skeptical that the best slamming planars can match the best dynamic driver counterparts. Furthermore, if there is such a planar that can compete with even just a good slamming dynamic headphone, I would bet that the planar headphone would cost many times over the dynamic one.

The above are the main reasons driving my belief. All this is within the context that everybody hear/interpret sounds differently. As l am still a relative novice in this hobby, I would be happy to be shown otherwise.

 

[bagwell359]

Like 99% oratory. Everything is "stock"except that I'm still playing around with the bass shelf a bit to find a sweet spot

Here's a link to the EQ https://www.dropbox.com/s/0kdq2tc7yno9rwa/Hifiman HE6se V2.pdf

Can't agree with Oratory bass settings.

They think everyone has an average small room and they set the their EQ in the bass using that as an "ideal" and add in average user preference (overblown bass very popular these days) neither input is oriented to sonic accuracy. At least they could supply an alternate. People spend 10's and even 100's of thousands for a neutral room. Headphones have an advantage over room speakers as in no room - why throw that away?

With a 10 band I use: 32 Hz +2.2 db low shelf Q 1.00 and 74 Hz +1.2 db low shelf 2 Q 1.30.

Also the setting at 1.9k seems high. If you are tuning try 3 4 db instead.

 

[pongpaktech]

Can't agree with Oratory bass settings.

They think everyone has an average small room and they set the their EQ in the bass using that as an "ideal" and add in average user preference (overblown bass very popular these days) neither input is oriented to sonic accuracy. At least they could supply an alternate. People spend 10's and even 100's of thousands for a neutral room. Headphones have an advantage over room speakers as in no room - why throw that away?

With a 10 band I use: 32 Hz +2.2 db low shelf Q 1.00 and 74 Hz +1.2 db low shelf 2 Q 1.30.

Also the setting at 1.9k seems high. If you are tuning try 3 4 db instead.

Yeah I've been setting my bass shelf between 0 and 3 db depending on the genre. I also used oratory's EQ for my previous pair of heaphones (Beyer COPP) and set the bass shelf to 0db. I'll definitely try lowering the 1.9k band a few db when I get home later tonight!

 

[bagwell359]

Interesting. With all things being equal, I always had the impression that the driver design has more to do with dynamics/bass response.

Both matter.

Admittedly, I have not heard any of the hifi/summit fi gear but I am skeptical that the best slamming planars can match the best dynamic driver counterparts.

Most people that buy summit cans seem to buy more planars, and more open than closed.

Slam I am afraid is an overloaded term. Closed back dynamics with a big reputation for slam invariably have boosted bass. If that's your taste than you've got the right technology. I personally look for accuracy to the performance - not ABX .000001 distortion stuff, but pieces that sound more like how I hear acoustic music.

Furthermore, if there is such a planar that can compete with even just a good slamming dynamic headphone, I would bet that the planar headphone would cost many times over the dynamic one.

I'm for impact and clean non distorted or fat or overblown bass - very few dynamics can touch planars in that way at the same price points.

The above are the main reasons driving my belief. All this is within the context that everybody hear/interpret sounds differently. As l am still a relative novice in this hobby, I would be happy to be shown otherwise.

It's a process, and what you think is accurate or desirable now is probably what you will think in the future unless you get more inputs.

 

[bagwell359]

Yeah I've been setting my bass shelf between 0 and 3 db depending on the genre. I also used oratory's EQ for my previous pair of heaphones (Beyer COPP) and set the bass shelf to 0db. I'll definitely try lowering the 1.9k band a few db when I get home later tonight!

Try with vocals, guitar, piano, strings and don't be afraid to play around a bit.

 

[NascentAP]

Both matter.

-Agreed but equally?

Most people that buy summit cans seem to buy more planars, and more open than closed.

Perhaps. Should’ve clarified that I haven’t had the privilege of hearing high end headphones of any kind with a reputation for good slam ie Abyss and focal offerings.

Slam I am afraid is an overloaded term. Closed back dynamics with a big reputation for slam invariably have boosted bass. If that's your taste than you've got the right technology. I personally look for accuracy to the performance - not ABX .000001 distortion stuff, but pieces that sound more like how I hear acoustic music.

Totally agree.

I'm for impact and clean non distorted or fat or overblown bass - very few dynamics can touch planars in that way at the same price points.

So am I. I love planar bass. And the one that sold me on it was a he4xx lol. Having said this, consider the inverse of your example. Is there a planar that can achieve bass slam similar to he-r9 or any other dynamic driver headphones with a good reputation for heavy bass slam? Does it exist?

It's a process, and what you think is accurate or desirable now is probably what you will think in the future unless you get more inputs.

Thanks as always for taking the time to provide your perspective.

 

[TWerk]

I agree that on the whole, dynamic drivers can tend to have a bigger impact, punch, whatever you want to call it. They seem to have a little easier job at that bass punch. However, planar seem to have an easier job with extension and going quite low and in a controlled and defined manner. What I really like about planar is their speed and ability to recover and maintain speed. I feel like dynamic are a little bit slower and more reverberating in a sense. But yeah, that extension, speed, control can make for some really enjoyable bass on planars even if they take a second place to some dynamic headphones that can really smack you with sheer force.

That said, there are models that cross the lines between these technologies. For example, I found the Elex to have a lot of impact and the drivers also gave a strong sense of speed and agility. I find the old school Hifiman to give a strong impact which can challenge dynamics. I know everyone talks about Abyss for bass too. So they trade blows in places where my above paragraph is a sort of generality that I feel between the two. Really either can have very impressive dynamics so I don't think you can entirely generalize it across the board.

 

[bagwell359]

The 500 has warm beautiful mids unmatched by just about anything I have heard. I don't find them overly warm either although I do find the warmth to give them very pleasing sound. I feel like the technical ability of the edition XS is quite good. It is clear, crisp and detailed but I'm someone who listens for enjoyment and I rank technical ability lower, personally.

The 500 mids are very nice and pleasing, but the SE isn't unpleasant per se - they both need the 1.8k dip and certain bright spots in the treble addressed. The SE has quicker and better low bass too. Without the fuzzor mod the 500 has too many cancellations and reverberations and it rings more in the treble.

The OG 400 is fun with strong and punchy bass. Underrated nowadays IMO.

The punch is in the boosted mid bass and upper bass. The low bass like the 5XX, 5SE starts to decline around 70 Hz and is in obvious decline at 50 Hz and is done under 30. You can see it in the FR graphs or with test tones.

Initially I enjoyed going from the SS driven HD-600 to the 4XX, but, it's got choppy highs, and the pumped up upper bass. It doesn't scale with pads, amps, cables, fuzzor mod. The 500 is the next can I got and even stock it's superiority over the 4* was evident.

For me, XS is my technical listen, but I understand people who like more technical headphones can go further down that road.

It's very nice but the bass impact and timbre isn't a match for the 500. But it is different enough and better in some ways so they make a good pairing to take on all musics.

 

[Guipnox]

I also settled away from the HE6SE because of amping requirements, after owning them several times. I prefer HE-500 / HE-400 because they are so much easier to power across a far wider range of amps than the 6SE. Both 500 and 400 pair beautifully with the Audeze Deckard and I get fantastic sound. Also, these both sound great with my NFB 11.28.

The hardest part of owning a 6SE I think is amping it and you have to think about that when you buy them and consider it carefully. Even when you get an amp, you may still have questions as to whether what you have is "good enough" for them.

IMO the 6 and 6SE are rather picky with amplification, at least compared to most other cans - and it is (to me) a negative of going with this particular model or recommending them as an ideal pick across the board to folks.

YMMV.

That's a fallacy as pointed out here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-he6-v2-adorama.959021/post-17238763

You can have good enough amplification (for these cans) using a cheap speaker amp like that or any other, for that matter.
It's just that people aren't aware of these possibilities or afraid of doing harm to the drivers.
Soon I'm gonna be the one to buy something similar to test against my mono blocks as I plan to populate the Earth with the insanity that is the sound coming from a properly amped HE6seV2.