Hifiman HE1000-SE
Apr 4, 2020 at 11:30 AM Post #1,561 of 5,215
I had a Danacable for my Utopia’s and I liked what it did for those headphones. What sound improvements are you hearing with the Danacable on the HE1000se’s? On the Utopia’s it improved soundstage, bass and tamed the treble. The HE1000se’s doesn’t have those issues. So I’m curious to know what you’re hearing with the Danacable on the HE1000se’s, thanks!

I hate to be this guy, but check out the thread I started on the Lazuli Reference for some great insights. I initially used them for my HEKv2 and now my HEKse. Made a world of difference for both. In short, the timbre of all instruments improved, bass seems tighter, treble is handled with finesse and my favorite thing about the cable is the immense midrange it brings with detail and presence. I’m a bit mid range guy so this was very welcomed. Oh and the instrument separation and imaging is greatly improved I would imagine due to a darker background.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/danacable-lazuli-reference-thread.855143/
 
Apr 4, 2020 at 12:45 PM Post #1,562 of 5,215
I hate to be this guy, but check out the thread I started on the Lazuli Reference for some great insights. I initially used them for my HEKv2 and now my HEKse. Made a world of difference for both. In short, the timbre of all instruments improved, bass seems tighter, treble is handled with finesse and my favorite thing about the cable is the immense midrange it brings with detail and presence. I’m a bit mid range guy so this was very welcomed. Oh and the instrument separation and imaging is greatly improved I would imagine due to a darker background.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/danacable-lazuli-reference-thread.855143/
I did ask for your thoughts on the Danacable and HE1000se pairing and you shared your thoughts. So thanks for that. It sounds like the Danacable makes an improvement all around. I like a good midrange myself. It's probably the toughest frequency range to get right. What I don't want is to lose the airy nature of the HE1000se's. This headphone seems to let each note breathe. If the Danacable can maintain that, then it sounds like a winner.
 
Apr 4, 2020 at 1:22 PM Post #1,563 of 5,215
I did ask for your thoughts on the Danacable and HE1000se pairing and you shared your thoughts. So thanks for that. It sounds like the Danacable makes an improvement all around. I like a good midrange myself. It's probably the toughest frequency range to get right. What I don't want is to lose the airy nature of the HE1000se's. This headphone seems to let each note breathe. If the Danacable can maintain that, then it sounds like a winner.

I really don’t think it detracts from any of the inherent qualities of the SE. I agree about the airy nature and what’s great about these headphones is they accomplish being both airy and having a rich textured sound at the same, never lacking that oomph when it’s called upon. It truly is my end game headphone until I can afford the HE-1 lol
 
Apr 4, 2020 at 2:13 PM Post #1,564 of 5,215
I really don’t think it detracts from any of the inherent qualities of the SE. I agree about the airy nature and what’s great about these headphones is they accomplish being both airy and having a rich textured sound at the same, never lacking that oomph when it’s called upon. It truly is my end game headphone until I can afford the HE-1 lol
This headphone does seem to be complete. I'm struggling to find something I don't like about this headphone or its sound. What's crazy is I'm hearing all of these great attributes with the stock balanced cable. So is the stock cable really as bad as it is being portayed to be? Don't get me wrong, I definitely want to tryout some aftermarket cables with the HE1000se's. But for once, I don't feel the need to rush to change out the stock cable with the HE1000se's for some reason. I really like what I'm hearing.
 
Apr 4, 2020 at 3:03 PM Post #1,565 of 5,215
I'm struggling to find something I don't like about this headphone or its sound.

That's easy : it's called the "Susvara," but that is not because of any inherent attribute of either headphone. Rather, it is because of the "grass is greener" syndrome. I know it, because I was under its influence before I got my HeKSE, and three other flagships I currently have. And I know it, because I am still dreaming about owning the Susvara, and/or the Abyss TC, under the illusion that once I get one of those two, the hunger will go away, and the search will end, except that I am no longer naive enough to believe that anymore. By the way, I am speaking more to and about myself here, rather than commenting on your statement, or pointing out anything you might be doing "wrong," because your mileage may, indeed, vary. Your statement just made me want to chime in with my own experience. :)
 
Apr 4, 2020 at 5:56 PM Post #1,566 of 5,215
That's easy : it's called the "Susvara," but that is not because of any inherent attribute of either headphone. Rather, it is because of the "grass is greener" syndrome. I know it, because I was under its influence before I got my HeKSE, and three other flagships I currently have. And I know it, because I am still dreaming about owning the Susvara, and/or the Abyss TC, under the illusion that once I get one of those two, the hunger will go away, and the search will end, except that I am no longer naive enough to believe that anymore. By the way, I am speaking more to and about myself here, rather than commenting on your statement, or pointing out anything you might be doing "wrong," because your mileage may, indeed, vary. Your statement just made me want to chime in with my own experience. :)
When I got the Susvara's I said I was done. Now I have the HE1000se's to go along with them and several other high end headphone offerings. This hobby is so addictive and that hunger you speak of doesn't seem to go away. It's bitten me several times over. What's crazy is when you finally get that so called "upgrade" in your hands, that's the moment the narrative seems to change in your mind. Instead of the pursuit of finding something "better" it's onto to looking for something "different" or something to "compliment" your new toy. So I get it :)
 
Apr 4, 2020 at 9:07 PM Post #1,567 of 5,215
This headphone does seem to be complete. I'm struggling to find something I don't like about this headphone or its sound. What's crazy is I'm hearing all of these great attributes with the stock balanced cable. So is the stock cable really as bad as it is being portayed to be? Don't get me wrong, I definitely want to tryout some aftermarket cables with the HE1000se's. But for once, I don't feel the need to rush to change out the stock cable with the HE1000se's for some reason. I really like what I'm hearing.
I agree.
 
Apr 6, 2020 at 2:57 AM Post #1,568 of 5,215
Their stock tuning is not suitable for metal, rock and EDM at all, the treble is too splashy for those genres. Not so noticeable on jazz or orchestral music.

The HEKse after EQ are really a monster!.
And not only because the tonal balance but the imaging and soundstage are improved significantly!.
The stock splashy treble does throw off your mind to localize sounds within the soundstage and compresses and muddies the soundstage itself.

If you can achieve that with your chain instead of an EQ I highly recommend everyone to do so.
 
Apr 6, 2020 at 4:16 AM Post #1,569 of 5,215
Their stock tuning is not suitable for metal, rock and EDM at all, the treble is too splashy for those genres. Not so noticeable on jazz or orchestral music.

The HEKse after EQ are really a monster!.
And not only because the tonal balance but the imaging and soundstage are improved significantly!.
The stock splashy treble does throw off your mind to localize sounds within the soundstage and compresses and muddies the soundstage itself.

If you can achieve that with your chain instead of an EQ I highly recommend everyone to do so.
Ah, I think their biggest strength is that they localize the imaging well and I also love them on EDM and metal more and guess what? I do not use any EQ!
 
Apr 6, 2020 at 5:10 AM Post #1,570 of 5,215
Ah, I think their biggest strength is that they localize the imaging well and I also love them on EDM and metal more and guess what? I do not use any EQ!

They are the best for EDM and metal after EQ for me, their soft sound and superb resolution really fit those genres!.
 
Apr 7, 2020 at 4:24 AM Post #1,571 of 5,215
... So is the stock cable really as bad as it is being portayed to be? Don't get me wrong, I definitely want to tryout some aftermarket cables with the HE1000se's. But for once, I don't feel the need to rush to change out the stock cable with the HE1000se's

Not everyone has portrayed the stock cable to be terrible. It is typical of the stock cables of most headphone companies, in that it gets the job done, but can be improved by many aftermarket cables. I think what really puts some people off is the cheap rubbery feel to the outer insulation, which never bothered me much as at least it was relatively tangle free. So if you're happy with the sound, then don't worry about aftermarket cables, but just know that better is possible when you get the urge to upgrade again. However.....

I've said before and I'll say it again: many people pay a lot of attention to the end of the chain (headphones and amp), but ignore the full potential of the source (everything before the DAC) and make do with basic PCs or laptops etc. I've been gradually upgrading my source (my profile not fully up to date yet) and I can't believe how much the end result sound can be affected.

For example, I used to use Roon EQ to tame my HEK V2's most prominent treble peak, but I could hear some fundamental degradation in SQ whenever EQ was engaged. So pros and cons. When I upgraded to HEK SE, I dropped EQ altogether because the EQ cons now outweighed its pros. At one stage in improving my source, I switched my music player app from Roon to Euphony Stylus, and the fundamental improvement that gave to SQ totally swamped whatever value Roon's EQ could provide to my HEK's tonal presentation. Further tweaking of cables, fuses, etc have changed my opinion of my HEK tonal presentation. If you've ever compared sources and didn't notice much difference, then I suggest that you haven't tried the right things in the right order.

So if anyone thinks their HEK sounds, say, a bit too bright, then that may be partly due to its FR curve, but IMO it is mostly to do with it faithfully showing up upstream issues. You can mask those issues with EQ and warm-sounding headphone cables. But much better to address the root cause. The DAC and amp and headphone cable still do matter of course - because everything matters! :)
 
Apr 7, 2020 at 10:10 AM Post #1,572 of 5,215
Not everyone has portrayed the stock cable to be terrible. It is typical of the stock cables of most headphone companies, in that it gets the job done, but can be improved by many aftermarket cables. I think what really puts some people off is the cheap rubbery feel to the outer insulation, which never bothered me much as at least it was relatively tangle free. So if you're happy with the sound, then don't worry about aftermarket cables, but just know that better is possible when you get the urge to upgrade again. However.....

I've said before and I'll say it again: many people pay a lot of attention to the end of the chain (headphones and amp), but ignore the full potential of the source (everything before the DAC) and make do with basic PCs or laptops etc. I've been gradually upgrading my source (my profile not fully up to date yet) and I can't believe how much the end result sound can be affected.

For example, I used to use Roon EQ to tame my HEK V2's most prominent treble peak, but I could hear some fundamental degradation in SQ whenever EQ was engaged. So pros and cons. When I upgraded to HEK SE, I dropped EQ altogether because the EQ cons now outweighed its pros. At one stage in improving my source, I switched my music player app from Roon to Euphony Stylus, and the fundamental improvement that gave to SQ totally swamped whatever value Roon's EQ could provide to my HEK's tonal presentation. Further tweaking of cables, fuses, etc have changed my opinion of my HEK tonal presentation. If you've ever compared sources and didn't notice much difference, then I suggest that you haven't tried the right things in the right order.

So if anyone thinks their HEK sounds, say, a bit too bright, then that may be partly due to its FR curve, but IMO it is mostly to do with it faithfully showing up upstream issues. You can mask those issues with EQ and warm-sounding headphone cables. But much better to address the root cause. The DAC and amp and headphone cable still do matter of course - because everything matters! :)
Personally, I think the cable should be the last upgrade or tweak made. The HE1000se’s are very revealing headphones and they do exhibit what’s in your source chain. To your point, I can clearly hear the differences in using Tidal or Roon than using something like Pandora. Sound quality jumps through the roof on the former. But that is just the first step in getting the best out of gear. You can clean up the incoming power by using some sort of power conditioner, upgrading your ac cables, fuses, etc all of which will improve sound quality. At this level, you are correct in saying “everything” matters. It just depends on how far you want to take it.
 
Apr 7, 2020 at 11:18 AM Post #1,573 of 5,215
Not everyone has portrayed the stock cable to be terrible. It is typical of the stock cables of most headphone companies, in that it gets the job done, but can be improved by many aftermarket cables. I think what really puts some people off is the cheap rubbery feel to the outer insulation, which never bothered me much as at least it was relatively tangle free. So if you're happy with the sound, then don't worry about aftermarket cables, but just know that better is possible when you get the urge to upgrade again. However.....

I've said before and I'll say it again: many people pay a lot of attention to the end of the chain (headphones and amp), but ignore the full potential of the source (everything before the DAC) and make do with basic PCs or laptops etc. I've been gradually upgrading my source (my profile not fully up to date yet) and I can't believe how much the end result sound can be affected.

For example, I used to use Roon EQ to tame my HEK V2's most prominent treble peak, but I could hear some fundamental degradation in SQ whenever EQ was engaged. So pros and cons. When I upgraded to HEK SE, I dropped EQ altogether because the EQ cons now outweighed its pros. At one stage in improving my source, I switched my music player app from Roon to Euphony Stylus, and the fundamental improvement that gave to SQ totally swamped whatever value Roon's EQ could provide to my HEK's tonal presentation. Further tweaking of cables, fuses, etc have changed my opinion of my HEK tonal presentation. If you've ever compared sources and didn't notice much difference, then I suggest that you haven't tried the right things in the right order.

So if anyone thinks their HEK sounds, say, a bit too bright, then that may be partly due to its FR curve, but IMO it is mostly to do with it faithfully showing up upstream issues. You can mask those issues with EQ and warm-sounding headphone cables. But much better to address the root cause. The DAC and amp and headphone cable still do matter of course - because everything matters! :)
Hey Attorney!

I'm surprised about your now approach, since I knew you as a fellow EQ proponent. Now I still tend to think if the sound after equalizing is worse, it's the operator that's responsible, not the equalizer per se. Of course finding a really appropriate and passably precise compensation curve is essential, otherwise there's an infinite potential of making the sound worse instead of better.

So I tried an experiment to get an answer to above question – if equalizers, even those in the digital domain, hence without complicating the signal path, can make the sound worse by itself. It consisted of equalizing a 24-bit recording (with my Wavelab wave editor) by reducing specific frequency areas by 2 dB and increasing them again by the same amount. I repeated this procedure twice, with different frequency bands.

Equalizing.JPG


In the end the two amplitude peaks (one in each channel) showed a deviation of 0.001 and 0.002 dB, which seems negligible and hints that at lower levels the signal is unchanged at all.

The listening impression confirmed this: The two tracks sounded absolutely identical.

Now I can't speak for the Roon equalizer, which on the other hand has a good reputation. My own (real-time) EQ curve for the HE1000se had to be adapted after the change from the Lavricables Grand to the Norne Silvergarde S3 with its seemingly better high-frequency extension.

11212422.jpg


The largest difference is the drop at 16 kHz. Of course that's not really the difference created by the new cable; the latter just offered me a better insight as to the necessary compensations during my trial adventures.

And one thing is clear to me: The HE1000se's original amplitude response is far from being flat, equalizing does wonders. It makes a night-and-day difference. Be it with above xnor equalizer for foobar2000 with my desktop computer or the one in my new FiiO M11 Pro DAP – a source that sounds subjectively better (cleaner, smoother) than any other at my disposal. Apart from its sound quality I'm hesitating to give it my recommendation, though – the firmware leaves a lot to be desired. E.g. it offers just one User EQ with no possibility to store the curve, the inevitable «genre presets» are fixed. What's puzzling is that it should not make a difference, given the signal path → Hugo M Scaler (output galvanically isolated) → Wave Storm dual-data BNC cables (with massive ferrite-core population) → Chord DAVE (S/PDIF input galvanically isolated). What's left is the galvanic connection via mains cables, but my other FiiO DAPs are battery-driven as well.

Addendum:

This post could be called a typical case of shooting oneself in the foot. After closer inspection I have to admit that deducing an unaltered signal curve at lower levels from a deviation as low as 0.002 db at peaks is illegitimate. It turns out that small signals are more affected. There are deviations of ~0.17 dB at –37 dB and up to 3 dB at –70 dB, while the optical appearance of the signal curve is even more altered than the numbers indicate. So I will have to admit that the pretended need for 64 bits for ultimately transparent equalizing has some merits.

However, the two tracks are still indistinguishable to my ears. And for me this result is a strong indication that the beneficial effect of equalizing is clearly stronger than the hypothetical/potential downside in terms of small-signal errors. Also considering the fact that the disposable recordings we listen to have already run through DSPs more than once.
 
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Apr 7, 2020 at 12:45 PM Post #1,574 of 5,215
has anyone upgraded from arya to the 1000SE or owns both? im thinking about upgrading from my aryas. are they worth it? lol
 
Apr 7, 2020 at 12:53 PM Post #1,575 of 5,215
has anyone upgraded from arya to the 1000SE or owns both? im thinking about upgrading from my aryas. are they worth it? lol
Here's a video review of the HE1000se comparing them to the Ananda's and the Arya's. Check it out as he goes into quite a bit of detail in his review.

 

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