[Vegeta55555]

my amp is rated at 125W/8Ohm (the 30-40 wpc was just a guess from me)

 

[sillysally]

Quote:

I have never thought about using the headphone out until you mentioned it.
 
Certainly the headphone out takes more volume pot setting (7 o'clock vs 11 o'clock position).  And the speaker out has clearer sound.  The headphone out sound softer and a little bit fuzzy, but I was quite surprise that the headphone out works a lot more better than I thought.
 
The more time I spend HE-6 with this Rotel, the better I like the SQ of this combo.  With a just a little bit tone down on treble (to remove some tiny edges and the effect was very subtle), the tonality sound quite "right" to me now.  The vocal texture is getting quite close  to my T1+Phoenix combo.  The T1 projects a smaller but more 3D-like soundstage, something like miniaturized sonic theme.  The HE-6 projects a much larger scene and hence every sound source is larger than what T1 puts out.  Again, it is like sitting at the front row in a movie theater.  The focusing may gets a little bit used to and difficult due to the sheer size of the scene.  For vocal, HE-6 makes the singer just right in front of you and T1 puts some distance in between.
 
It is quite different and interesting to compare the strength of both phones.  Now I hardly can say which one is better.  It is just completely different flavor.
 
And I just went through several large-scale music such as POTC soundtrack vol. 4.  The soundstage was immense and the waves of sonic power dumping at me rounds after rounds were amazing and quite a experience.
 


 

Yes the sound-stage is huge (very 3D/surround like) with the HE-6, and yes I use the HE-6 for movie viewing (Blu Ray 5.1/7.1 DTS HD MA). I have found the MC HD audio to be very precise with pin point accuracy when viewing a HD movie.
Also I have found that the treble needs no "tone down" because there are no "tiny edges" just a very smooth detailed silk like treble never harsh, female voices are just great.
 I like classic rock videos that for the most part are taken from the TV broadcasts, they are only 2Ch stereo but the AQ comes out very good and detailed. Anyway because of my system I can play these vids back through my HE-6's in 5.1 mode so I get a surround sound 3D like in lousy (not lossless) 5.1 sound-track. However the detail and all the rest of the splendor of the HE-6's shines through. A very good example of the range, sound-stage and detail  was when I was playing the old Olivia Newton John "Let's Get Fiscal" video. Yes the the lows to the highs come through very well, but what is even more impressive and fun is the background grunts, groans, ahhs, etc from the guys working out in that video. Now consider the fact that these videos have a total bit rate of about 1.6 mbps, its very impressive on how the HE-6's can pin-point and blend these background details to sound very natural, of-course that's saying the rest of your gears are doing what they should be doing also.

 

[Hisssss Royal Hignesssss]

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[Skylab]

That might be true of some current generation integateds that use op amps for the headphone out, but it is not true for vintage integrated amps and receivers where the headphone out is off the main power amp, just via a padding resistor. And some modern tbe integrateds, like the Leben, also power headphones off the main amp.

 

[Hisssss Royal Hignesssss]

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[Skylab]

Well I can tell you that my Pioneer SX-1980 outputs In the 10+ WATTS range into the 50 ohm HE-6. It uses a 150 ohm resistor off the main power amp in the headphone out. There isn't a headphone on earth it couldn't drive to beyond insane levels.

That's an extreme example since it outputs 270 wpc into 8 ohms. But even my 75 wpc Marantz 2275 is delivering several WATTS to the HE-6...much more that most headphone amps.

 

[ardgedee]

The only dedicated headphone amps that I've experienced making the HE-6 really sing are the Beta22, Woo WA5-LE, and Ray Samuel's prototype Dark Star. The HE-6 has sounded good on other headphone amps, but they've been nowhere near to helping the HE-6 deliver the dynamics and control that it's capable of.
 
By comparison, my HK670 receiver drives the HE-6 easily through the headphone jacks, with plenty of power to spare (although the phones sound even better straight off the speaker taps). The sound wasn't up to that of the world-class amps listed above, but it was closer to those heights than I'd been able to accomplish with a variety of good to very-good headphone amps.
 
Keep in mind that your average well-powered single-purpose headphone amp is at best delivering 2 watts into 50 ohms impedance. The Schiit Lyr has been getting attention primarily because it's a moderately-priced amp capable of more than double that. A classic 1970s receiver with a simple resistor network between the speaker amplifier and the headphone jack might be pushing over 10 watts into 50 ohms.
 
I want to say more about this soon; there were a few HE-6s floating around the Michigan meetup last weekend and we got to compare our experiences driving them off a broad range of amps and source material.

 

[Hisssss Royal Hignesssss]

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[Skylab]

Agreed. With my Pioneer or Marantz or Sansui receivers I can't get to 9:00 with headphones.

 

[dukja]

We don't need to beat the dead horse here again.  At this moment, everyone who read 10% of this thread should know that HE-6 needs power. 

 
It might be more beneficial to discuss the experience of mating HE-6 with various amps: exotic headphone amp, integrated, pre+power amp, or vintage amp. 
 
We know it needs power, but it is even more interesting to find QUALITY power to drive HE-6 to the infinity and beyond.  I feel guilty to drive my HE-6 with a less than $200 old Rotel and it competes well with T1 + ~$1k Phoenix.  And I have been quite satisfied with Rotel ATM, which is a good thing from financial and future upgrade perspective.
 
What I would like to find out is the scaling up roadmap of HE-6 with various amp.  It should be far more interesting than hearing that just go straight for WA5, which does not fall in to my budget plan.

 
@argedee
 
Please do share your finding at the meet.  Thanks!!

 

[Wedge]

I think the Apex P/V pairs nicely with the HE-6.  The Apex P/V, IMO is a pretty transparent amplifier, so in this case you will hear the tube choice and the cans more than anything else.  So it depends on what you are looking for in terms of sound, but I don't feel that this combo is lacking in power, although some will say on paper it does.  I really just don't get the feeling it is.  But sure you could just go straight for the WA-5  

 

[Hisssss Royal Hignesssss]

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[grokit]

The HiFiMAN HE series of headphones (with the exception of the more efficient HE-500) are the only headphones that I know of that come stock with 4-pin XLR balanced termination besides the K1000, and the HE-6 and K1000 have very similar amping requirements when used side by side. The K1000 came stock from AKG with a speaker tap adapter, and HiFiMAN sells one called the HE Adapter.

 

[dukja]

One thing I cannot find is the output spec of Apex P/V.  Anybody would enlighten me?  Thanks!
 
Quote:

I think the Apex P/V pairs nicely with the HE-6.  The Apex P/V, IMO is a pretty transparent amplifier, so in this case you will hear the tube choice and the cans more than anything else.  So it depends on what you are looking for in terms of sound, but I don't feel that this combo is lacking in power, although some will say on paper it does.  I really just don't get the feeling it is.  But sure you could just go straight for the WA-5  

My next tentative plan is to get some quality power amp to go with Phoenix, which seems to be an excellent pre-amp by some headfier here.
 

 

[dukja]

Thank you for your sharing.  And for the record, I wasn't saying that you are repeating.  Take it easy.

 
Just curious, are you using HE-6 with any amp?
 
Quote:

 
Although I do not believe in worthwhile audible differences between well designed amplifiers , and certainly don't buy into the "HE-6 needs at least ...... Watts to reach it's full potential" story. (The main reason I don't usually post much here, sorry I'd rather trust the numbers than my ears) my post was not intended to beat dead animals of any species.
I was simply a bit alarmed by several stories (your's being one of them) of people hooking them up to the headphone outputs of integrated amplifiers, and cranking up the volume to 11:00 o-clock, which with many if not most amplfiers could very well be max power if used with a high voltage source.
Maybe you are using a source with much lower output voltage, in which case everything is fine, but if you are using a CD player/DAC/Soundcard that puts out 2 volt, 11:00 o-clock for normal listening is probably dangerously close to the amp clipping, potentially harming your headphones. (I have more experience with loudspeakers, I don't know if headphones are just as sensitive to a clipping amp as a tweeter is, but it's still something to keep in mind)
 
I also think the use of speaker outputs is a very risky affair, particularly on vintage amplifiers, since there can be several reasons why an otherwise perfectly silent amplifier can cause loud distorted noise, probably destroying the HE-6 immediately. I once had an almost new Denon amp cause a very loud bang over my loudspeakers because a lightbulb from a lamp connected to the same wall socket blew (It never did this again afterwards). Age, DC offset, and several other common malfunctions can also cause an older amplifier to develop loud "switch on/off" bangs almost over night, and the buzz of a loose/shorted interconnect could probably also blow your HE-6 with such extreme wattages .
 
So, just a word of warning to all you amp-tweakers, no harm (and certainly no repetetive discussion) intended.