[Wedge]

I live in New Jersey too, we might be able to work something out.
 
Quote:

Tubes are too expensive for me at least. I would like to hear one though.

 

 

[dukja]

I just tried power HE-6 directly from Phoenix again.  This time I actually feel it drives HE-6 OK, at least for the midrange and treble.  The bass was still too bloated.  But that is not the point of this test.
 
I did find out the tonality (not considering bass) was more normal and the focusing is better for the mid/high.  This seems to indicate my issue with HE-6 may be due to NAD216. 
 
I may be able to get an Rotel integrated in and let's see if it helps.

 

[moodyrn]

Quote:

Some comparison of HE-6 to Beyer T1 and Stax SR-407:
 
Treble and midrange:
T1: right tone (to me); most 3D-like and best sound texture; only sounds enclosed when in comparison to HE-6; high resolution and could cause strain with poor recording
407: right tone; least "immediately" impression but it grows on you quick; most effortless and super smooth; high resolution and well extended but not sparky; absolutely no strain even with poor recording
HE-6: when just switch to it, some part of freq band is not quite right; most open in soundstage but focusing is not as good as T1; may sound dull and plain at midrange (even a little veiled or misty) while the high may sound thin; least clear among three; the stain level with poor recording is at middle.
 
Bass:
T1: tightest and impactful but least amount
407: sheer amount is amazing and is deep, but not as tight and impactful as T1
HE-6: more amount than T1 and more impactful than 407. 
 
As you can see, I need some help on the HE-6 system.

  Still, there is certain magic on HE-6 that keep motivate me to discover it.
 
My HE-6 is currently driven by Phoenix + NAD216 (125W/ch).  I can only use 3~6/99 on the volume level with balanced Ref-7 input.
 


 

I also own both the he-6 and 407. As compared to the he-6, I agree with some of your impressions. The treble on the 407 don't wow you at first, but very soon you realize how special it is. It just sounds right. The treble on the he-6 will wow you, but still will never become fatiguing and sounds very clear, very extended. I think the treble on the 407 is better integrated with the rest of the frequency band. Where we disagree  is the bass. The bass on the he-6 without a doubt have more extension. But the 407's bass actually have more slam and impact. The he-6s bass do have a tad more refinement. Overall I prefer the he-6, but the 407s are more balanced. I just find the he-6 more engaging and fun to listen too. But I absolutely adore them both. All of my comments are imo of course.

 

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

I also own both the he-6 and 407. As compared to the he-6, I agree with some of your impressions. The treble on the 407 don't wow you at first, but very soon you realize how special it is. It just sounds right. The treble on the he-6 will wow you, but still will never become fatiguing and sounds very clear, very extended. I think the treble on the 407 is better integrated with the rest of the frequency band. Where we disagree  is the bass. The bass on the he-6 without a doubt have more extension. But the 407's bass actually have more slam and impact. The he-6s bass do have a tad more refinement. Overall I prefer the he-6, but the 407s are more balanced. I just find the he-6 more engaging and fun to listen too. But I absolutely adore them both. All of my comments are imo of course.

 

Just remember, that comparison could be very different just by using different amps than what you used with each headphone.
 

 

[moodyrn]

Yes, you are right about that. Both of those headphones do scale very well with better amplification and impressions can be very different depending upon amplification used. But I have used many different amps on the he-6 and they have sounded anywhere from being thin in the bass department to having big and full bass. But even with the amps that gave them a lot of bass, my 407 have always had more slam and impact. But I still don't consider the he-6 being bass lite at all. The 407 just have more impact. The he-6 definitely wins when it comes to extension.
 
And yes, it is a myth that all electrostatics are lacking in the bass department. Some are, but most aren't. At least the ones I've listened to which are many.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Yes, you are right about that. Both of those headphones do scale very well with better amplification and impressions can be very different depending upon amplification used. But I have used many different amps on the he-6 and they have sounded anywhere from being thin in the bass department to having big and full bass. But even with the amps that gave them a lot of bass, my 407 have always had more slam and impact. But I still don't consider the he-6 being bass lite at all. The 407 just have more impact. The he-6 definitely wins when it comes to extension.
 
And yes, it is a myth that all electrostatics are lacking in the bass department. Some are, but most aren't. At least the ones I've listened to which are many.

Yeah, stats are not all bass-lite, and only a couple of vintage Stax and the HE-60 were light on bass to my ears.  I've had great bass with ESP-950, Jade, SR-Lambda normal pro and signature, Lambda Nova Signature, SR-5 Gold, SR-003, and O2.  My Lambda Nova Signature are the closest I have to your phones, and have very strong bass from my WES amp, but I think my HE-6 out of my upgraded ZDT amp still have a little more impact and slam.  And if I put the HE-6 on my HDP, DACmini, SAC, or EF5 amps then the tables would be turned.  
 
When I compared the LNS and HE-6 tonight, I also found the HE-6 to be more holographic, spacious, transparent, and extended, with an overall better feeling of being there with the musicians; but the LNS still did a very good job.  I'm sure your 407 are even better than my vintage LNS, and I'd like the try the 407/507 some day.  But as you know, if you don't pair the HE-6 with just the right amp they wont perform like they could, which can lead to a lot of bass presence but poor speed and impact.  This is why although I prefer the HE-6 I've been recommending the easier to drive HE-500 to people who inquire about them but don't have the power to drive them properly.  (as you know, being able to play them loudly doesn't mean the amp has the power to properly control the drivers)
 

 

[sillysally]

There is no headphone I have heard that will give you the sub bass of a SW.
 
When I was at AIX sound studio's in LA making my PRIR's for my A8, I was using a Stax system for my comparisons of how close headphones sound to a real reference 5.1 system with a great SW and room acoustics. Anyway I was blown away by how close there Stax system sounded to the real speaker system, that I didn't really notice the kick that a SW gives you using a real speaker system. Latter when back in my man cave, I kept thinking there was something missing.
 
Because of the Tactile RCA outs that the A8 offers, I got a Crownson Shadow Stereo Motion System: A300b Amplifier with a pair stereo TES100SS. The interesting thing about the TES100SS are that it uses a small air driven piston in each TES100SS that sounds like you are using SW's. So like a SW and the vibration it gives off to rattle your windows and everything in the room and the home the TES100SS does but only in a limited area being where you are setting . Also what I believe is happening is that the headphones are being influenced by the sound waves of the TES100SS adding the sub bass that you would hear if using real SW. Of-course this is saying you have the you have your SW Ch is set a 0 db and letting you source material add the +10 boost.
 
Now to tie this together with the HE6's, is that unlike a headphone like a HD-800 where the sound is less precise and therefor the sub bass is more spread out, the HE6's is still very precise for the sub bass.
 
note, in no way am I suggesting that the HE6 has any problem delivering the bass with very good precision and impact and speed. All I am saying is how to improve on the SW like bass for headphones, like a Stax or a HE6 type of headphone. However on bass heavy headphones like the AH-D7000 I would not recommend using this type of system for the bass, imo headphones like the AH-D7000's are bass heavy and the Crownson system adds to the overkill of bass found in headphones like the AH-D7000's.

 

[moodyrn]

Quote:

Yeah, stats are not all bass-lite, and only a couple of vintage Stax and the HE-60 were light on bass to my ears.  I've had great bass with ESP-950, Jade, SR-Lambda normal pro and signature, Lambda Nova Signature, SR-5 Gold, SR-003, and O2.  My Lambda Nova Signature are the closest I have to your phones, and have very strong bass from my WES amp, but I think my HE-6 out of my upgraded ZDT amp still have a little more impact and slam.  And if I put the HE-6 on my HDP, DACmini, SAC, or EF5 amps then the tables would be turned.  
 
When I compared the LNS and HE-6 tonight, I also found the HE-6 to be more holographic, spacious, transparent, and extended, with an overall better feeling of being there with the musicians; but the LNS still did a very good job.  I'm sure your 407 are even better than my vintage LNS, and I'd like the try the 407/507 some day.  But as you know, if you don't pair the HE-6 with just the right amp they wont perform like they could, which can lead to a lot of bass presence but poor speed and impact.  This is why although I prefer the HE-6 I've been recommending the easier to drive HE-500 to people who inquire about them but don't have the power to drive them properly.  (as you know, being able to play them loudly doesn't mean the amp has the power to properly control the drivers)
 

 

I have listened extensively to the lns, and I really enjoyed them. But the bass produced by the 407/507 is different. With the lns, the output is there but I've always found the bass a bit boomy and not as controlled as I would have liked. I also found them to be just a tad lacking in impact. You really should audition a pair of the new lambdas. The bass(and the sound as a whole) is different. It's not boomy at all, it's more refined, and much tighter as well. I'm a big fan of the vintage lambdas. I prefer most of them to even some current flagships of today, but the new stax are on another playing field. My 407 really do give my he-6 a run for their money, but I still prefer them overall. The he-6 are the most amp dependent headphones I've ever encountered. I've read so many impressions from people that didn't like them. When they described the sound, it was similar to the impressions I have when they are not amped properly. So it's probably best for many to go with the he-500
Quote:

There is no headphone I have heard that will give you the sub bass of a SW.
 
When I was at AIX sound studio's in LA making my PRIR's for my A8, I was using a Stax system for my comparisons of how close headphones sound to a real reference 5.1 system with a great SW and room acoustics. Anyway I was blown away by how close there Stax system sounded to the real speaker system, that I didn't really notice the kick that a SW gives you using a real speaker system. Latter when back in my man cave, I kept thinking there was something missing.
 
Because of the Tactile RCA outs that the A8 offers, I got a Crownson Shadow Stereo Motion System: A300b Amplifier with a pair stereo TES100SS. The interesting thing about the TES100SS are that it uses a small air driven piston in each TES100SS that sounds like you are using SW's. So like a SW and the vibration it gives off to rattle your windows and everything in the room and the home the TES100SS does but only in a limited area being where you are setting . Also what I believe is happening is that the headphones are being influenced by the sound waves of the TES100SS adding the sub bass that you would hear if using real SW. Of-course this is saying you have the you have your SW Ch is set a 0 db and letting you source material add the +10 boost.
 
Now to tie this together with the HE6's, is that unlike a headphone like a HD-800 where the sound is less precise and therefor the sub bass is more spread out, the HE6's is still very precise for the sub bass.
 
note, in no way am I suggesting that the HE6 has any problem delivering the bass with very good precision and impact and speed. All I am saying is how to improve on the SW like bass for headphones, like a Stax or a HE6 type of headphone. However on bass heavy headphones like the AH-D7000 I would not recommend using this type of system for the bass, imo headphones like the AH-D7000's are bass heavy and the Crownson system adds to the overkill of bass found in headphones like the AH-D7000's.

I have listened to bass tracks and compared the bass on my he-6 to the bass on my d7000. The thing most surprising is, I found my he-6 to actually have more extension the denons. Of course the denons have much more output. The output is even strong at their lowest frequencies. But my he-6 was able to reach notes that my denons couldn't quiet reach, and the denons have plenty of extension in their own right.
 

 

[dukja]

@moodyrn
 
Thanks a lot for your sharing and comparison on 407 and HE-6.  People at Stax thread should be interested in your 407 impression since not much has been shared there.
 
And I agree on that HE-6 is extremely amp dependent.  And I think it has potential and deserve better amp in my trial.  That was the reason why I was asking people's amping choice and the reasoning behind. 

 

[Happy Camper]

I tried a Rotel RB-1050 (70wpc 8) with the 6 but it wasn't as good as the monoblocks. I don't know if its the increased power or the dual mono but the monoblocks have a better soundstage.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

I have listened extensively to the lns, and I really enjoyed them. But the bass produced by the 407/507 is different. With the lns, the output is there but I've always found the bass a bit boomy and not as controlled as I would have liked. I also found them to be just a tad lacking in impact. You really should audition a pair of the new lambdas. The bass(and the sound as a whole) is different. It's not boomy at all, it's more refined, and much tighter as well. I'm a big fan of the vintage lambdas. I prefer most of them to even some current flagships of today, but the new stax are on another playing field. My 407 really do give my he-6 a run for their money, but I still prefer them overall. The he-6 are the most amp dependent headphones I've ever encountered. I've read so many impressions from people that didn't like them. When they described the sound, it was similar to the impressions I have when they are not amped properly. So it's probably best for many to go with the he-500

I have listened to bass tracks and compared the bass on my he-6 to the bass on my d7000. The thing most surprising is, I found my he-6 to actually have more extension the denons. Of course the denons have much more output. The output is even strong at their lowest frequencies. But my he-6 was able to reach notes that my denons couldn't quiet reach, and the denons have plenty of extension in their own right.
 

I would agree the LNS bass is definitely mushier and not as controlled as the HE-6 bass, nor the LCD-2 bass driven by the ZDT.  I finally upgraded the ZDT to partial silver output transformers, and the result is not subtle - I can finally enjoy the LCD-2 with the ZDT which now surpass the LNS from the WES.  However, the LNS still have better midrange and treble presence than the LCD-2, although that seems to result in a more intimate presentation with a shallower soundstage and a narrower image than either the HE-6 or LCD-2.  Overall the HE-6 win for me for their combination of transparency, detail, speed, extension, balance, imaging and realism; and the LCD-2 manage to sneak by the LNS because of their superior imaging and bass quality over the LNS.  What amp are you using that makes the 407 perform so well for you?  What amp do you prefer with the HE-6?

 

[moodyrn]

I'm using the T1S. I have used a srm1 mkII "c" version and a srd7 pro with a combination of ss and tube amps. I think the T1S mates very well with them. I see stax uses the 006t(which is basically the newer version of the T1 series) to go with them in their earspeaker/amp combo. I think they went this route because of how well the 407 matches with tubes. I have used many combinations with my he-6. My favorite has been my fisher integrated because of what it does for the midrange. I'm no longer using it because of the potential damage it could do to the transformers. So now I'm currently using a vintage pioneer sx1010( the original "monster" receiver). The pioneer isn't far behind the fisher, and it's one of the best solid state amps I've heard. It provides the power needed with the refinement you get from high end tube amps. I think Skylab and others are going the same route with their orthos as well. I feel confident recommending the "higher end" sx line to anyone when it comes to driving the he-6.

 

[grokit]

I got my warranty replacement HE-6 in today, a perfect specimen complete with box and accessories which was unexpected. I am very happy to have a new cable, as mine was a bit screwed up. The new pair sounds great. I really missed these headphones!
 
If anyone would like an absolutely perfect HE-6 presentation box I will send it for the cost of postage, which should be under $15 in the USA.

 

[moodyrn]

I got the same thing with my replacement. I was surprised to see the cosmetic changes which were nice. The build quality was much better than my first pair.

 

[grokit]

Mine seem the same, but the finish is better on the leather and both pads are fine this time, with the first pair I had to use one of the replacements right off the bat so QC may have gotten better. I think that the L and R markings may be easier to read. What changes did you notice?