[r343]

After month with Focuspad-A + HE500 it is so much better. First experience was pleathers and sound was congested. Velours helped but Focuspad-A extended soundstage even more and added bass. Tested plenty of mid-fi cans but this is step up, would rate it in same "ballparkish" as Arya and HD800 but with warmer and more intimate presentation.

HD6xx really cant compete after A/B test in other than comfort.

 

[The Third]

I now have both the HE-500 (with velpads, unmodded) and the HE-400 hooked up to a Topping E30+ SMSL SP200. Quite sure I prefer I the HE-400. I find it speedier and having a better stage. Detail is more or less the same, though the HE-500 is a bit dry/analytical. That might be due to the pleather pads on the HE-400 vs velour on HE-500. Anyone with both thought the same?

 

[bagwell359]

I now have both the HE-500 (with velpads, unmodded) and the HE-400 hooked up to a Topping E30+ SMSL SP200. Quite sure I prefer I the HE-400. I find it speedier and having a better stage. Detail is more or less the same, though the HE-500 is a bit dry/analytical. That might be due to the pleather pads on the HE-400 vs velour on HE-500. Anyone with both thought the same?

I've been something like Johnnie Appleseed with used HE-500's since I've discovered them. I've texted and talked to probably over 50 people about them. You are the 4th with this finding. Two were found to have amps with too little power. Did I just read "326" milliwatts? If so, that's not enough. The HE-500 needs at least two watts at 38 ohms, and I'd say 4 wpc at 38 just to be sure you have enough head room. Because only damaged HE-500's or underpowered amps can make anyone think the 400 is better. I have owned the 400, 4XX, and heard the 400i quite a few times and none of them is nearly good enough to be better than a proper HE-500 - stock or modded.

Bass is key: some people have been fooled like listeners have been for 100 years by mid bass and upper bass filling in for not much bass under 80 Hz - which the 4** series all suffer from. The 500 is always good to 30 Hz - as in nearly flat, and I've seen a couple that get to 20 flat too. If the 500 bass sounds weak to you it's the amp.

 

[zeromacro]

I've been something like Johnnie Appleseed with used HE-500's since I've discovered them. I've texted and talked to probably over 50 people about them. You are the 4th with this finding. Two were found to have amps with too little power. Did I just read "326" milliwatts? If so, that's not enough. The HE-500 needs at least two watts at 38 ohms, and I'd say 4 wpc at 38 just to be sure you have enough head room. Because only damaged HE-500's or underpowered amps can make anyone think the 400 is better. I have owned the 400, 4XX, and heard the 400i quite a few times and none of them is nearly good enough to be better than a proper HE-500 - stock or modded.

Bass is key: some people have been fooled like listeners have been for 100 years by mid bass and bass filling in for not much bass under 80 Hz - which the 4** series all suffer from. The 500 is always good to 30 Hz - as in nearly flat, and I've seen a couple that get to 20 flat too. If the 500 bass sounds weak to you it's the amp.

Yep, I'd agree with this as well. The HE500 sounds anemic when underpowered.

 

[vlach]

Yep, I'd agree with this as well. The HE500 sounds anemic when underpowered.

+1

 

[The Third]

I've been something like Johnnie Appleseed with used HE-500's since I've discovered them. I've texted and talked to probably over 50 people about them. You are the 4th with this finding. Two were found to have amps with too little power. Did I just read "326" milliwatts? If so, that's not enough. The HE-500 needs at least two watts at 38 ohms, and I'd say 4 wpc at 38 just to be sure you have enough head room. Because only damaged HE-500's or underpowered amps can make anyone think the 400 is better. I have owned the 400, 4XX, and heard the 400i quite a few times and none of them is nearly good enough to be better than a proper HE-500 - stock or modded.

Bass is key: some people have been fooled like listeners have been for 100 years by mid bass and upper bass filling in for not much bass under 80 Hz - which the 4** series all suffer from. The 500 is always good to 30 Hz - as in nearly flat, and I've seen a couple that get to 20 flat too. If the 500 bass sounds weak to you it's the amp.

The SMSL SP200 is supposed to drive headphones at 32ohm with 3 Watts, should be enough I'd say then. I did buy my HE-500 second hand, maybe that could be a contributing factor. The HE-400 has quite the good sub-bass and control imo, nothing wrong with those can's bass at all. Likewise for the HE-500, bass is actually very well extended, neutral and impactful. My main problem so far is that I can't mentally channel the detail of the headphone as I can't get into the soundstage of the HE-500 so much, it's very intimate even though it's impactful it lacks air and the image is too small. I get a very left/right imaging impression with this unit I got. I do have to add that I connected them to Toxic copper cables if that makes any difference. I might have to give it more time or find out what's going on...

 

[sennfan83261]

I now have both the HE-500 (with velpads, unmodded) and the HE-400 hooked up to a Topping E30+ SMSL SP200. Quite sure I prefer I the HE-400. I find it speedier and having a better stage. Detail is more or less the same, though the HE-500 is a bit dry/analytical. That might be due to the pleather pads on the HE-400 vs velour on HE-500. Anyone with both thought the same?

I have found the HE-500 to be anything but dry and analytical even when been driven by a sterile amp like my THX AAA 789. They are famed for their liquid mids and their just-right treble energy. The soundstage isn't as massive as the Arya and the HD800S, but they are larger than the LCD-2 pre-fazors, which are larger than the HD6x0's. The HE-500 is one of the most energetic cans that I own (second to the HE-6) and are probably my go-to rock cans. This evening, I was listening Fuzz's latest album "III" with my LCD-2 rev. 2 pre-fazor and was getting a little bored as it sounded a bit veiled and a little lethargic on the first track "Returning." When I switched to my HE-500 (velpads being the only sound-related mod), the energy of the band returned to my grateful ears. Admittedly, I typically drive them from a speaker amp. Also, I have never listened to the HE-400 and all of the views above are just my opinion.

 

[bagwell359]

The SMSL SP200 is supposed to drive headphones at 32ohm with 3 Watts, should be enough I'd say then. I did buy my HE-500 second hand, maybe that could be a contributing factor. The HE-400 has quite the good sub-bass and control imo, nothing wrong with those can's bass at all. Likewise for the HE-500, bass is actually very well extended, neutral and impactful. My main problem so far is that I can't mentally channel the detail of the headphone as I can't get into the soundstage of the HE-500 so much, it's very intimate even though it's impactful it lacks air and the image is too small. I get a very left/right imaging impression with this unit I got. I do have to add that I connected them to Toxic copper cables if that makes any difference. I might have to give it more time or find out what's going on...

Maybe I had a bad 400, or the amp I had didn't light it up. I mixed up my "millas", thought yours was .3*.

With the rear covers off and using MrSpeakers Ether Angled I have a very wide soundstage. Any copper cable should be better than the stock - which is awful.

All I can say is keep at it, and read some reviews here to give you some hope. It was rated the most cost effective headphone among the 8 best available in 2012. It's a perennial favorite in threads concerning peoples collections past and present. It didn't get there sounding as you describe it (no affront at your abilities to hear/describe what you hear, since its well written and consistent).

 

[SilverEars]

Maybe I had a bad 400, or the amp I had didn't light it up. I mixed up my "millas", thought yours was .3*.

With the rear covers off and using MrSpeakers Ether Angled I have a very wide soundstage. Any copper cable should be better than the stock - which is awful.

All I can say is keep at it, and read some reviews here to give you some hope. It was rated the most cost effective headphone among the 8 best available in 2012. It's a perennial favorite in threads concerning peoples collections past and present. It didn't get there sounding as you describe it (no affront at your abilities to hear/describe what you hear, since its well written and consistent).

I'm starting to think your 4XX was a bad unit based on contrasting stuff people say about it.

 

[bagwell359]

I'm starting to think your 4XX was a bad unit based on contrasting stuff people say about it.

Perhaps, but there is no escaping the lack of real bass - just look at the graphs - any of them. Elevated from 110-~225 Hz. Start going down at ~105 Hz, -5 db at 40 Hz, -10 db at 20 Hz. Test CD's confirm mine behave the same as the graph in that area. Also the treble in the 4XX has a very choppy response. From 1.5 kHz up they are usually up or down 5 db or more (usually up). They are up 13.5 db at 9.2 k, and down 14 db at 18.5k (one channel), with changes in between. Most of the graphs with L-R show a lot of non tracking each other in the 2k and over area. They are not transparent. Can't complain much listening to the Who, not so hot on female vocals with lots of brass or strings.

The main point is no HFM/MD 4** can mount any challenge to a properly working HE-500 according to over 90% of the people I have talked to.

 

[The Third]

I have found the HE-500 to be anything but dry and analytical even when been driven by a sterile amp like my THX AAA 789. They are famed for their liquid mids and their just-right treble energy. They're one of the most energetic cans that I own (second to the HE-6) and are probably my go-to rock cans. This evening, I was listening Fuzz's latest album "III" with my LCD-2 rev. 2 pre-fazor and was getting a little bored as it sounded a bit veiled and a little lethargic on the first track "Returning." When I switched to my HE-500 (velpads being the only sound-related mod), the energy of the band returned to my grateful ears. Admittedly, I typically drive them from a speaker amp.

Sounds like the he-500 gives you a great experience,

Perhaps, but there is no escaping the lack of real bass - just look at the graphs - any of them. Elevated from 110-~225 Hz. Start going down at ~105 Hz, -5 db at 40 Hz, -10 db at 20 Hz. Test CD's confirm mine behave the same as the graph in that area. Also the treble in the 4XX has a very choppy response. From 1.5 kHz up they are usually up or down 5 db or more (usually up). They are up 13.5 db at 9.2 k, and down 14 db at 18.5k (one channel), with changes in between. Most of the graphs with L-R show a lot of non tracking each other in the 2k and over area. They are not transparent. Can't complain much listening to the Who, not so hot on female vocals with lots of brass or strings.

The main point is no HFM/MD 4** can mount any challenge to a properly working HE-500 according to over 90% of the people I have talked to.

I myself was referring to the OG HE-400(REV4) not any massdrop version after.

 

[SilverEars]

Perhaps, but there is no escaping the lack of real bass - just look at the graphs - any of them. Elevated from 110-~225 Hz. Start going down at ~105 Hz, -5 db at 40 Hz, -10 db at 20 Hz. Test CD's confirm mine behave the same as the graph in that area. Also the treble in the 4XX has a very choppy response. From 1.5 kHz up they are usually up or down 5 db or more (usually up). They are up 13.5 db at 9.2 k, and down 14 db at 18.5k (one channel), with changes in between. Most of the graphs with L-R show a lot of non tracking each other in the 2k and over area. They are not transparent. Can't complain much listening to the Who, not so hot on female vocals with lots of brass or strings.

The main point is no HFM/MD 4** can mount any challenge to a properly working HE-500 according to over 90% of the people I have talked to.

I think what really tipped it off was Drop's FR comparison of 4XX to 5XX. From Jude's comparison measurements on Drop, 4XX shows to have more treble extension than 5XX, and I heard the 5XX. 5XX sounds to have more treble extension than YOUR 4XX. So therefore, I'd have to conclude YOUR 4XX maybe faulty, and there are either consistency issues with units, there was revision over time, or Jude had a unicorn unit.

 

[The Third]

I think I might have discovered the issue I was having with the paring of my E30+SMSL200 with the HE-500 compared to the HE-400. I changed the digital filter from 1 (linear phase sharp roll off) to 2(linear phase slow roll off) on the Topping E30 which in turn made a great improvement in timbre and layering for the HE-500 which makes the sound much more engaging. I can now hear many more subtle cues in instruments within each layer where the HE-400 would otherwise colour too much. It's strange, normally I prefer the sharp-roll off digital filter but with the HE-500 and velpads (or velour stock) it seems the decay becomes way too fast for it's own good and ruins the impact/timbre too much for me. What also doesn't help is that my ears are really settled in with the EMU-Teak with Zebra cups, which add quite the longer decay and wood style resonances to the sound. I guess the good ol' V shape character of the HE-400 creates a better soundstage as I perceive it to be deeper and a tad wider, as the HE-500 is the more intimate of them both. I think I'd still use the HE-400 for movie soundtracks and perhaps gaming over the HE-500. With this digital filter the HE-500 is a really intimate and engaging listen though, the midrange is so detailed and extension and control on both ends are amazing. The violin in "Max Richter - the nature of daylight" never sounded so beautiful or intimate.

 

[bagwell359]

Sounds like the he-500 gives you a great experience,

I myself was referring to the OG HE-400(REV4) not any massdrop version after.

I don't know what HE-400 I had, but I had it in 2013-14 and it died after 500 hours or so (2nd hand). I credit that and the HD-600 in convincing me there could be life after melting down a very good speaker based stereo. Since then I continue to like the 600 esp on an OTL amp. My other main cans are all HFM: HE-500, HE6se, HEX v2. The HFM group I know that I rank below those include 400, 400i, 400S, 4XX, HE5se, 5LE, 560, and Sundara. Since I don't consider any of those as possible purchases anymore I may have homogenized them a bit in my memory. The 4XX is probably the worst, the 5se the most disapointing, the 560 the best.

Either 4 or 6 screw HE-6 would sit in my top group as would Arya, HEXv2, HEkse, Susvara for the record.

I'll admit my set up with the 400 outside of the front end was meh at best, and I guess a test would need to be run now to be 100% sure, but I'm 98% sure that my 500 buries any 400* regardless of mods, using a SS amp with 4+ wpc at 38 ohms

 

[bagwell359]

I think what really tipped it off was Drop's FR comparison of 4XX to 5XX. From Jude's comparison measurements on Drop, 4XX shows to have more treble extension than 5XX, and I heard the 5XX. 5XX sounds to have more treble extension than YOUR 4XX. So therefore, I'd have to conclude YOUR 4XX maybe faulty, and there are either consistency issues with units, there was revision over time, or Jude had a unicorn unit.

Just for the record it had a cheapo copper XLR cable from China, a set of Ether Angled pads, some felt and dynamat on the back side. I did note several times it didn't seem to scale. You didn't like it, I don't like it, and my son who knows a good deal took them twice, but gave them back both times.

Even if that is all true, it doesn't mean the 400 I owned, 400i and 400S I've heard is a match for the 500. The 500 is similar to a HE-6 (probably the most respected can over the past 10 years) - except the trace is aluminum not gold, and it was tuned to have richer mids. The highest slot the 400 has occupied was 3rd in the HFM line-up after the 500 and 6. Now in the HFM line it's what? Susvara, HEKse, HEKv2, Arya, 560, Ananda, Sundara. Seven. If this was 9 months ago HE6se would have made eight.