[hifimanrookie]

I wonder why LCD-X and LCD-XC immediately got put into summit fi subforum cuz they don't meet your 2nd criteria   .  I can't think of a reason yet beside the price tags.  I hope to listen to them at the next meet.

Price AND probably branding..audeze and stax is standard considered summit fi by our moderators as far i can see it.. Whether u agree with it or not.. I get a feeling its all personal taste and pricing what moderators decide to put them in summit fi or not.

I myself know the he500 when being driven by the right amp can be a real killer phone.. I loved that phone..
For me..the he500 is high end.. It was once..when its pricetag was 899euro... It was so good people were choosing the he500 above the he6.., and its rumored that the price reduction of the he500 was only to protect the he6 sales back then...but its never proven... But it did make the moderators act to kick it out of summit fi...could that be the reason? As the phone didnt get worse..

 

[Okamoto]

Let me say it differently...a GTR Is considered extremely value for money compared to its competitors..eventhough it costs more then 100,000usd..ofcourse a hyundai is more value for money..moneywise..

Its all about compared to its competitors... If we would comparing value for money..just for the sake of money..then a 5euro bud u buy at a supermarket would be the winner handsdown..no matter how much headaches u get from it....
But in the end its the feeling u get having it...i am now jumping up and down waiting for my new amp..i didnt have this feeling when i was waiting for my 337 or my matrix mstage

We are all different..one wants and can pay for expesive stuff..others dont or dont want...

5 euro bud you mean... budweiser? 5 EURO?

Ouch. And I thought that beer was overpriced here in Brazil...

And yeah, I get what you mean. But I think there's a limit for everything, and past that limit, some things just doesn't seem very reasonable. But that's just me.

Btw, for all the americans reading this. I envy you for having the best Lager in the world:

 

[Tony1110]

5 euro bud you mean... budweiser? 5 EURO?


Ouch. And I thought that beer was overpriced here in Brazil...


And yeah, I get what you mean. But I think there's a limit for everything, and past that limit, some things just doesn't seem very reasonable. But that's just me.


Btw, for all the americans reading this. I envy you for having the best Lager in the world:

Which reminds me: It's New Year's Day and I'm off out to get rat*****.

 

[koiloco]

Price AND probably branding..audeze and stax is standard considered summit fi by our moderators as far i can see it.. Whether u agree with it or not.. I get a feeling its all personal taste and pricing what moderators decide to put them in summit fi or not.

I myself know the he500 when being driven by the right amp can be a real killer phone.. I loved that phone..
For me..the he500 is high end.. It was once..when its pricetag was 899euro... It was so good people were choosing the he500 above the he6.., and its rumored that the price reduction of the he500 was only to protect the he6 sales back then...but its never proven... But it did make the moderators act to kick it out of summit fi...could that be the reason? As the phone didnt get worse..

Now, that's a procurement specialist's talk.  

 

[hifimanrookie]

Now, be careful.  Defending your unknown, high $ amp that nobody including yourself has even listened to is ok but do not start going after other amps in the manner of your post.
You do sound like you are grasping onto everything starting from your builder's reputation, how much components in side the amp.... to sincerely hope that your investment will pay off.
TBH, nobody would know if the amp doesn't turn out the way you want it.  For you, you can easily and psychologically convince yourself into believing "this is the best amp ever" after paying that much.  Nothing against you buddy, I really hope it will work out for you too.  Knowing you and your 337 long enough and speaking from the experience,  there's no way this new amp can be anything but "the best"

Also, there's no need to be a procurement specialist to understand the mass production vs. profit margin.  It's quite common sense for many people.  It's simple math really.

Happy new year and chill out before we all get somewhere we shouldn't be in our conversation.

I completely agre with u..i used the wrong words..my apologies..i never said its best amp...it will sound good..but proably not best u can get...but for me it will be endgame headphone material..but next year (2015) i will be having a speaker rig in my new house.

Concerning u mentioning my 337 again:
...i got a thank u pm from the new owner of my 337 and he is using it with his he500 and hd800(he says his he6 is a bit to much..lolz).. And he says he loves it very much and that it sounds above expectations... he even likes pairing it with his hd800 more then his violectric...did i brainwash him or is that amp really a hidden gem (like i always said) .of which almost no one believes how good it reallly is?
am glad this headfi member knows now

 

[Okamoto]

Which reminds me: It's New Year's Day and I'm off out to get rat*****.

If I put one more drop of alcohol in my mouth, my liver will jump out of my body and run away.

 

[jerg]

  I wonder why LCD-X and LCD-XC immediately got put into summit fi subforum cuz they don't meet your 2nd criteria  

.  I can't think of a reason yet beside the price tags.  I hope to listen to them at the next meet.

Yeah if the price of the cans are prohibitively high already, it overrides the criterion about prohibitively expensive upstream setup for qualifying summit-fi.
 
 
 

Price AND probably branding..audeze and stax is standard considered summit fi by our moderators as far i can see it.. Whether u agree with it or not.. I get a feeling its all personal taste and pricing what moderators decide to put them in summit fi or not.

I myself know the he500 when being driven by the right amp can be a real killer phone.. I loved that phone..
For me..the he500 is high end.. It was once..when its pricetag was 899euro... It was so good people were choosing the he500 above the he6.., and its rumored that the price reduction of the he500 was only to protect the he6 sales back then...but its never proven... But it did make the moderators act to kick it out of summit fi...could that be the reason? As the phone didnt get worse..

Not exactly, LCD2 threads were moved out of summit-fi on the same day HE500s were.

 

[bhazard]

 
20k is expensive even for a speaker amp. You can get some great speakers for half that price.

About Orpheus: http://www.head-fi.org/t/697285/fs-sennheiser-he90-orpheus-electrostatic-headphone

Also: http://www.htforum.com/vb/showthread.php/165415-Sennheiser-Orpheus-HE90-HeadAmp-Aristaeus?highlight=orpheus

R$ 28,000 =~ U$12,000

 
As someone who works with and has set up professional amplifiers at major amphitheaters for years, builds speakers, and measures speakers for fun,  I know Rookie is getting screwed a good $15,000+ on that $20,000 amp. I have two speakers pushing 400w each (overkill) + two 18" subwoofers bridged at 1800W all off the same amplifier, which cost me $450. Frequency response and distortion figures showed minimal (if any) differences compared to the Emotiva XPA-5 and Krell Evolution 402e ($12,000). The biggest measured changes actually came from switching to Trinnov EQ/Remap modes via my receiver per each amp, not the amps in general. It also took close to 115db to see any differences... which if you haven't sat in a small room at 115db for long, is intolerable.
 
If you truly believe you can't get that performance or design from an amp built for $15,000 less, than go right ahead and purchase it. Who am I to tell anyone how to spend their money?

 

[ThurstonX]

So... back in topic, guys?


Anyone modded the He-500 headband with those cushions from the Sennheiser HD650?

 
I saw your post!!!  

 
Haven't tried the HD 650 pads, as I'm not convinced I'm keeping mine, but I did just modify my super cheap headband pad (wow! price went way up) to be shorter (trimmed off the two snaps on the ends) and substituted thinner foam (not the spongy kind that's in there).  Haven't had much head time with it yet, but I've got a little more room on the sliding parts, and the fit seems better.  It's a compromise between the stock headband, which gives me the best fit, and having a little extra padding, but not too much.  Looking for the Goldilocks Zone, but then, aren't we all 

 
Carry on with Summit Fi.  It's fun to read about stuff I'll never own.

 

[StanD]

Regarding headphones and headphone amps, DACs: We'd think that a high end, call that expensive, product is all profit, These sell at low quantities compared to the more moderately priced similar products. The cost of engineering and production setup has to be spread across far less sales, so the prices gets inflated relative to products that sell in larger volume. Fancy enclosures for amps and DACs are not cheap to setup for or manufacture, the molding of plastic components or forming of metal components for headphones might even be more expensive to get done. Now it's up to you to ask yourself is that product worth the price and how does it factor into the law of diminishing returns. Make your value judgement.

 

[hifimanrookie]

As someone who works with and has set up professional amplifiers at major amphitheaters for years, builds speakers, and measures speakers for fun,  I know Rookie is getting screwed a good $15,000+ on that $20,000 amp. I have two speakers pushing 400w each (overkill) + two 18" subwoofers bridged at 1800W all off the same amplifier, which cost me $450. Frequency response and distortion figures showed minimal (if any) differences compared to the Emotiva XPA-5 and Krell Evolution 402e ($12,000). The biggest measured changes actually came from switching to Trinnov EQ/Remap modes via my receiver per each amp, not the amps in general. It also took close to 115db to see any differences... which if you haven't sat in a small room at 115db for long, is intolerable.

If you truly believe you can't get that performance or design from an amp built for $15,000 less, than go right ahead and purchase it. Who am I to tell anyone how to spend their money?

lolz..i hear u..but my amp is not costing 20,000usd... It will cost 1/4 of that..my amp is just based on that speakeramp..a light version of the NSL.
But honestly..i have a few friends having multi 10.000 worth of speaker rigs..and they do sound far far far far far far far far far better then my humble onkyo rig with humble quality tannoy speakers...

So i say..if u have the money and that expensive rig gives u a good feeling..buy it..no matter how stupid that investment will be..if we always would look at what value ur stuff would give u..every high end brand..no matter in what market..cars, bikes, weapons, watches, audio, instruments, fashion etc. Would go bankrupt and our lives would be less colorfull..

When i visit those friends i enjoy listening to their rigs..eventhough i do know its completely over the top having ur speakers being bi-amped by its own seperated monoblocks..connected by rca cables worth of a small second hand car..with lp player that looks like its alienmade and weights a ton..lolz....but i close my eyes and hear bliss..ofcourse i will never have the money to buy that stuff having a very expensive daughter of 11 and a fashion addict as a wife .

so unless my next job will be into 6 figures salary i wont be buying that...so realistic am i..so this is my dream amp... Even my watch is not that expensive

 

[themad]

I saw your post!!!  

Haven't tried the HD 650 pads, as I'm not convinced I'm keeping mine, but I did just modify my super cheap headband pad (wow! price went way up) to be shorter (trimmed off the two snaps on the ends) and substituted thinner foam (not the spongy kind that's in there).  Haven't had much head time with it yet, but I've got a little more room on the sliding parts, and the fit seems better.  It's a compromise between the stock headband, which gives me the best fit, and having a little extra padding, but not too much.  Looking for the Goldilocks Zone, but then, aren't we all 

Carry on with Summit Fi.  It's fun to read about stuff I'll never own.

I bought that same cushion (and yes, it was way cheaper!) but like you I'm not completely satisfied with its stock form.
I just have to find the Sennheiser pad on eBay, since I don't live in the USA.

Would you mind posting photos of your mod when you can? And of course some impressions after you spend some more time with it.

 

[hifimanrookie]

Regarding headphones and headphone amps, DACs: We'd think that a high end, call that expensive, product is all profit, These sell at low quantities compared to the more moderately priced similar products. The cost of engineering and production setup has to be spread across far less sales, so the prices gets inflated relative to products that sell in larger volume. Fancy enclosures for amps and DACs are not cheap to setup for or manufacture, the molding of plastic components or forming of metal components for headphones might even be more expensive to get done. Now it's up to you to ask yourself is that product worth the price and how does it factor into the law of diminishing returns. Make your value judgement.

This is so well said!!! Agree completely..

 

[bhazard]

This is so well said!!! Agree completely..

At 1/4th the price, that's much more reasonable and in line with what i listed (almost to the tee). Should be incredible, and we would definitely want some impressions.
 
I have my jergpads on the way, and a Geek Pulse X to power the HE-500 in the future. 

 

[StanD]

  Regarding headphones and headphone amps, DACs: We'd think that a high end, call that expensive, product is all profit, These sell at low quantities compared to the more moderately priced similar products. The cost of engineering and production setup has to be spread across far less sales, so the prices gets inflated relative to products that sell in larger volume. Fancy enclosures for amps and DACs are not cheap to setup for or manufacture, the molding of plastic components or forming of metal components for headphones might even be more expensive to get done. Now it's up to you to ask yourself is that product worth the price and how does it factor into the law of diminishing returns. Make your value judgement.

 
 

This is so well said!!! Agree completely..

Sometimes I make sense.