[Odinphile]

No issues so far. Have it set on High Gain and it can get plenty loud. No distortion or clipping that I can hear. For reference, my average listening is around 74 dB (ghetto-measured with iPhone mic & app placed at the earcup opening while generating a 500 Hz tone), so I guess it's fine so far for anything + or - 20 dB from that.

Still listening to see if there's any difference, tonality-wise, between this and the AE-7. So far, it's pretty close...

Can you check the high gain and high volume with the xs and let know if they are goin into protection ?

 

[Vatnos]

As its been pointed out I haven't heard the XS but a picture is emerging. I recently hooked up with two speaker audiophiles that I hung out with in the 80's - and we drifted apart. They had similar tastes to mine back then, and both have gone into headphone in the past few years - one has an Ananda - but likes his LCD-4 much more (me too). They react to the Ananda the same as I do. I think its the background in live music and analogue - because the younger more digital oriented folks line up the other way. OTOH, they tried to pour holy water on me for using EQ - but admitted it helped.

I do like the HEX a lot, its one of my 4 keepers out of 15 the past 6 years. The lack of detail in the highs is a bigger issue than the lack of impact at the bottom - and vexingly I can't fix it with mods and EQ.

As always - your ears, and your timing should and will tell the tale.

There was no single issue with the HEX for me. The treble could've had a bit more sparkle, the bass could've had a bit more impact, the mids were slightly uneven so on some tracks they'd sound as good as anything I'd ever heard and on others there'd seem to be a veil. There was a 12k peak (on mine) that I needed an amp with some rolloff on the top octave to tame, which meant I couldn't run it on a brighter amp to get more air up top. I think I could even hear the ortho wall sometimes (maybe 1% of the time). At the end of the day the detail was there. The mids, low treble, and upper bass were as good as anything. The quirks were evenly spaced throughout and they were small enough that I could accept the image I was getting and feel pretty content with it. There was an old-school analog hifi style to its presentation and I grew very emotionally attached to it. I'm kinda counting on the tubes to make the Ananda work but we shall see.

 

[TalonFyre]

Can you check the high gain and high volume with the xs and let know if they are goin into protection ?

High Gain, -17 dB on volume pot (90 dB measured at cup), added PEQ with 10 dB low shelf at 100 Hz. Played the following:

Doom (Original Game Soundtrack) - Bfg Division
Daft Punk - Give Life Back to Music
Billie Eilish - bury a friend
REOL - Hibikase
Stereo Dive Foundation - PULSE

Handled everything just fine; no going into protection, no distortion or clipping that I can hear (at least for as long I could stand the volume).

I don't usually bump the bass up this much, but I have to admit...kind of fun and rumbly

 

[cycloverid]

High Gain, -17 dB on volume pot (90 dB measured at cup), added PEQ with 10 dB low shelf at 100 Hz. Played the following:

Doom (Original Game Soundtrack) - Bfg Division
Daft Punk - Give Life Back to Music
Billie Eilish - bury a friend
REOL - Hibikase
Stereo Dive Foundation - PULSE

Handled everything just fine; no going into protection, no distortion or clipping that I can hear (at least for as long I could stand the volume).

I don't usually bump the bass up this much, but I have to admit...kind of fun and rumbly

I love adding a lot of bass to planars, and am pretty much a basshead by most audiophile standards. For me though, I target my 10db a little more towards the sub bass so not too much is being added to the upper bass. But yeah, I'm adding 10db as well heh... I'll also add this sounds a bit much on certain tracks, but fun nonetheless.

 

[cycloverid]

Ah Interesting, Andrew/Resolve put his initial impressions/review for the XS up on headphones.com

https://forum.headphones.com/t/hifiman-edition-xs/16492

He seems to like them quite a bit, comparing them favorably to the Ananda. His graphs look a little tamer in the treble when compared to the other one we've seen (but the Ananda measures very similarly on his setup, so maybe this is basically the same as we've seen). Detail, unfortunately he says is solid but not meaningfully better than the Sundara (though he didn't exactly say this was behind the Ananda - 'close enough' were his words). His EQ is VERY similar to mine minus the bass shelves...

 

[powerwog]

Glad I could I help. If you have the time, please do share your impressions as well, when you get them. I'd be interested to hear more perspectives from those who have listened to and are deciding between the two.

Hey, I got my XS like a week or so ago. Here are my thoughts:
- the soundstage sounds noticeably but not drastically smaller compared to Ananda. It's definitely closer to Sundara's and thankfully pretty much where I wanted it to be in terms of size
- the left to right imaging doesn't seem as good as on the ananda, but it's still good nonetheless.
- they sound nice without EQ, but I think they definitely benefit from EQ, especially in the bass department.
- comfort wise they are more comfortable than the Ananda. The Ananda's headband gave it an odd clamp force that made it prone to causing jaw irritation and just general discomfort that couldn't be solved without basically doing a HD6x0 clamp-relieving trick on the headband. This out of the box felt more comfortable to use with no issues of clamp force at all. I do understand it's loose for some, but it's perfect for me.

I do agree with what I believe was your assessment about the differences. It's about 20%. I may say even 30%. I like both equally but I'm honestly not sure which to keep. It's going to be a hard one.

 

[jasswolf]

Ah Interesting, Andrew/Resolve put his initial impressions/review for the XS up on headphones.com

https://forum.headphones.com/t/hifiman-edition-xs/16492

He seems to like them quite a bit, comparing them favorably to the Ananda. His graphs look a little tamer in the treble when compared to the other one we've seen (but the Ananda measures very similarly on his setup, so maybe this is basically the same as we've seen). Detail, unfortunately he says is solid but not meaningfully better than the Sundara (though he didn't exactly say this was behind the Ananda - 'close enough' were his words). His EQ is VERY similar to mine minus the bass shelves...

His graph is using a slightly modified Harman, the other graphs are more dialled down between 2-5 kHz.

That's your opinion. A lot of people don't agree with it.

To be very clear, I see myself as standing pretty much in the middle of this argument.

How would an engineer go about making these parts and implementations without measurements for real world usage? No way this stuff is as loosely understood on the manufacturing side as is the common wisdom in here...

Okay, getting off topic. I feel like there should be a thread for this heh

They use their ears, and their experience and theoretical understanding of electrical engineering and acoustics. They definitely are drilling down on it, but even common sense tells you that they don't have a direct measurement method from one driver implementation to the next that can reveal a great deal about how that driver is performing.

In time, a machine learning based tool - one that is essentially taught the individual tones and then the tracks - will assess these implementations and provide real world performance data. Effectively, they will perform like a pair of ears, but by being an automated process they will help produce high-end parts for low-end prices.

 

[cycloverid]

His graph is using a slightly modified Harman, the other graphs are more dialled down between 2-5 kHz.

To be very clear, I see myself as standing pretty much in the middle of this argument.


They use their ears, and their experience and theoretical understanding of electrical engineering and acoustics. They definitely are drilling down on it, but even common sense tells you that they don't have a direct measurement method from one driver implementation to the next that can reveal a great deal about how that driver is performing.

In time, a machine learning based tool - one that is essentially taught the individual tones and then the tracks - will assess these implementations and provide real world performance data. Effectively, they will perform like a pair of ears, but by being an automated process they will help produce high-end parts for low-end prices.

I do very much look forward to the insights brought about from machine learning / neural networks trained on audio data (outside of the more important stuff like health/biotech/automation of course!). It's really frustrating how many audio concepts are beyond our ability to get more concrete measurements. Will certainly help dispel a lot of myths while turbo charging the refinement of audio technnology. I guess I'd only be concerned if I was an audio reviewer or related field, though this technology will come for all our jobs eventually...

I don't really follow this stuff too closely, but strange to see Resolve start using the 2018 Harman (i think?) with higher treble and the bass shelf, it didn't occur to me.

 

[Odinphile]

Ah Interesting, Andrew/Resolve put his initial impressions/review for the XS up on headphones.com

https://forum.headphones.com/t/hifiman-edition-xs/16492

He seems to like them quite a bit, comparing them favorably to the Ananda. His graphs look a little tamer in the treble when compared to the other one we've seen (but the Ananda measures very similarly on his setup, so maybe this is basically the same as we've seen). Detail, unfortunately he says is solid but not meaningfully better than the Sundara (though he didn't exactly say this was behind the Ananda - 'close enough' were his words). His EQ is VERY similar to mine minus the bass shelves...

Thanks for this cycloverid ...I am starting to think these are definitely not worth over the Sundaras. I was informed these were a step up over the Sundaras but I am starting to think less of it with measurements and detail. I think the the egg headphone design have a certain negative characteristic when it comes to distortion as well like in the ASR measurement of the Anandas. Anyone care to give more thoughts around this ?

I hope higher power amp/ dac should get rid of the sibilance I am getting with my mediocre set up.. This fact has been cemented by the guy who reviewed the XS w. SMSL amp ...I am fan of DnB and these come off near sibilant to me!

 

[cycloverid]

Thanks for this cycloverid ...I am starting to think these are definitely not worth over the Sundaras. I was informed these were a step up over the Sundaras but I am starting to think less of it with measurements and detail. I think the the egg headphone design have a certain negative characteristic when it comes to distortion as well like in the ASR measurement of the Anandas. Anyone care to give more thoughts around this ?

I hope higher power amp/ dac should get rid of the sibilance I am getting with my mediocre set up.. This fact has been cemented by the guy who reviewed the XS w. SMSL amp ...I am fan of DnB and these come off near sibilant to me!

Sibilance is one possible side effect of an unpowered headphone. If you have a better amp on the way or planned, I'd probably just sit tight before you make a final decision.

That said, these are a bit bright. These would probably have a bit too much treble at 4.8khz, 8khz, and 12khz for many people (2-3db). I personally like them a lot better with EQ, and if you don't use EQ this might remain a problem. Any reason you're against EQ'ing?

I find these a solid upgrade over the Sundara - but in stock tuning alone, I'd choose the Sundara over the XS.

 

[jasswolf]

Thanks for this cycloverid ...I am starting to think these are definitely not worth over the Sundaras. I was informed these were a step up over the Sundaras but I am starting to think less of it with measurements and detail. I think the the egg headphone design have a certain negative characteristic when it comes to distortion as well like in the ASR measurement of the Anandas. Anyone care to give more thoughts around this ?

I hope higher power amp/ dac should get rid of the sibilance I am getting with my mediocre set up.. This fact has been cemented by the guy who reviewed the XS w. SMSL amp ...I am fan of DnB and these come off near sibilant to me!

Sibilance is one possible side effect of an unpowered headphone. If you have a better amp on the way or planned, I'd probably just sit tight before you make a final decision.

That said, these are a bit bright. These would probably have a bit too much treble at 4.8khz, 8khz, and 12khz for many people (2-3db). I personally like them a lot better with EQ, and if you don't use EQ this might remain a problem. Any reason you're against EQ'ing?

I find these a solid upgrade over the Sundara - but in stock tuning alone, I'd choose the Sundara over the XS.

This is mostly where I land as well on Sundara vs XS. Resolve has to defend the Sundara a bit vigorously after getting a lot of traction for pointing out the pad revision, and the Sundara's imaging can fall away, especially if it's not well paired in terms of DAC and amp.

The XS is a nice slightly u-shaped open back that delivers detail, but I don't agree on the international price, and am very happy I scooped it up for an effective $360 USD pre-tax. At $400, this would be a benchmark headphone.

 

[Xerosnake90]

Thanks for this cycloverid ...I am starting to think these are definitely not worth over the Sundaras. I was informed these were a step up over the Sundaras but I am starting to think less of it with measurements and detail. I think the the egg headphone design have a certain negative characteristic when it comes to distortion as well like in the ASR measurement of the Anandas. Anyone care to give more thoughts around this ?

I hope higher power amp/ dac should get rid of the sibilance I am getting with my mediocre set up.. This fact has been cemented by the guy who reviewed the XS w. SMSL amp ...I am fan of DnB and these come off near sibilant to me!

I personally stay away from ASR and "measurements" when it comes to audio. I think to say the XS aren't worth it over Sundara is incorrect, however you may not prefer the XS and that's fine. The problem with "measurements" is that while you may find something unbearable in sibilance, others will have no problem. While I may find the 99 classics muddy there are plenty out there that love and prioritize the bass.

That being said they are sibilant at times and that's something you'll have with the XS and above. The Ananda, Arya, He1000 are all in the same family and have plenty of detail, great imaging and open Soundstage. The XS are more tamed than the Ananda but only slightly so if that's too much for you I'd recommend you stay away from the other Hifiman I have mentioned. The XS are very similar to the Ananda while doing some things slightly better and some things differently (I don't want to say worse) . I find the Ananda have slightly better technicalities (speed, decay, Soundstage and imaging) while the XS presents music and vocals a bit more coherent, intimate and relaxed.

 

[Odinphile]

I personally stay away from ASR and "measurements" when it comes to audio. I think to say the XS aren't worth it over Sundara is incorrect, however you may not prefer the XS and that's fine. The problem with "measurements" is that while you may find something unbearable in sibilance, others will have no problem. While I may find the 99 classics muddy there are plenty out there that love and prioritize the bass.

That being said they are sibilant at times and that's something you'll have with the XS and above. The Ananda, Arya, He1000 are all in the same family and have plenty of detail, great imaging and open Soundstage. The XS are more tamed than the Ananda but only slightly so if that's too much for you I'd recommend you stay away from the other Hifiman I have mentioned. The XS are very similar to the Ananda while doing some things slightly better and some things differently (I don't want to say worse) . I find the Ananda have slightly better technicalities (speed, decay, Soundstage and imaging) while the XS presents music and vocals a bit more coherent, intimate and relaxed.

I am not going to invest in any can for sure and my return period with the XS are over. So that's that.

Of course comparing the XS to Sundara might be incorrect or limited because I have just not heard the latter but measurements do represent 'something' and at the moment that is all I have to refer and Cycloverid's advices - his listening seems to be very much similar to what I hear with the XS.

I am a treble head if a label can't be avoided.. I highly praise Sony MDR SA 5000, I love TWFK knowles BA and I love the Hifiman RE 272 and love E-stat headphones - have heard some that measure very very good. Given my experience, the topic of sibilance has a more concrete ground to agreement or disagreement than a statement like "listening is subjective' would imply. I would rather say Listening is subjective but sibilance not so much or subjective to some degree.

 

[Odinphile]

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[bagwell359]

Open back planars (esp with no screen) usually can use a boost down low. But I'm one of those old fogey

Don't mean anything negative towards you guys but measurements kinda mean jackschitt. It's good to have more power for Planars for sure

Funny hobby. You get into it because of the feeling/meaning of the music. Then most try to apply some logic to the selecton process. But at the end it's back to subjective land. My first WOW moment - a perfect ultra low distortion Crown DC-150 amp vs a well used Mac MC-3500. The Mac with its "crappy" THD smoked the metallic Crown.