AudioBear
Headphoneus Supremus
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Or is this a revealing insight into the difference between high and low gain of the HA-1?
Hifiman Edition X
- Thread starter Jozurr
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B-60
100+ Head-Fier
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Could be. Didn't detect it with my other phones though and B-60 is having a similar experience but with a different amp.
AudioBear
Headphoneus Supremus
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my bad! I thought you did detect the difference with other phones.
I didn't think he was hating on these headphones.
They are not perfect, and not perfect for everyone.
My biggest gripe is their terrible cables and the fact that they don't properly fit people with small heads. This wasn't an issue for me. But was for my wife. She is upset about that. The HEK however, does fit her barely
B-60
100+ Head-Fier
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Just enjoying Pointer sisters that was cut right from Vinyl to RR,HEX do not mind old electronics , in fact most of the time sounds better then from a lot of new and hot of the press amps and portables.
any one still using R to R?
There's so much headroom that I just do not want to go back to CD's, just nice combo!
any one still using R to R?
There's so much headroom that I just do not want to go back to CD's, just nice combo!
oh I see.. I thought black background is something like a dead silent back ground... So care to share what is and isn't a black background?
I REALLY appreciate the way the HEX fits. With just about all phones except Sennheisers, even at the largest setting, the ear pad does not quite cover the bottom of my ear properly which is very uncomfortable and I always wish for just one extra click. My previous most comfortable phone was the Senn HD700 but the HEX is even better. Works great with glasses also.
Dr No
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Listened to the EdX and HE1000. Sensitivity on EdX is not sufficient for use with iphone only. Preferred the sound signature of X vs HE1000. HE1000 was a bit too bright.
My overall conclusion is that I love my JH16ProFP!!!
My overall conclusion is that I love my JH16ProFP!!!
tuna47
500+ Head-Fier
I also use the Lyr bifrost to drive hex they sound much better with a good amp ok with fiio but miss the mark
I wonder if maybe some good things going on with tubes and hex
I wonder if maybe some good things going on with tubes and hex
grizzlybeast
My name is grizzlybeast and I'm an audioholic.
I have to correct myself on the any headphone will sound quite when no music is playing part but the majority of gear should sound very quiet when no music is playing.
It is but it can't be only tested when music is quiet because transparency is interrupted by the music playing or revealed by the music. It is simply the lack of extra noise, distortion, or reverberation left over after a transient responds that gives the sense that the notes are emerging from an ether of nothing. A fast decay can help this but then you have distortion to deal with. Then you have noise floor. Then you have the headphones transparency, or the amps transparency. Or the cleanliness of the power going into your gear that can give murk up the sound. I could be mistaken by what reviewers mean when they say this but when I listened for this black background I simply listened when music was playing to get the sense of the music notes emerging from nothing and going into nothing.
The difference could best be described like talking into an untreated room vs a treated room. Or speaking into a microphone and hearing yourself vs speaking in a treated room w/no mic. You can sense all of the digital artifacts around your voice through play back as if your voice has some indescribable cloud around it. Even at low volumes where you can't hear the system hiss you know something is there around your voice. Or when you speak in a treated room your voice abruptly stops and dies right after it hits your ears with no effect of being clouded by reverberations.
The hex has a little distortion, a decay that is not quick, and a lack of total transparency that makes it seem like the notes come from nothing. The LCD2.1 has a longer decay but less distortion and stronger transients that help the sounds feel like they protrude from the background further.
It is but it can't be only tested when music is quiet because transparency is interrupted by the music playing or revealed by the music. It is simply the lack of extra noise, distortion, or reverberation left over after a transient responds that gives the sense that the notes are emerging from an ether of nothing. A fast decay can help this but then you have distortion to deal with. Then you have noise floor. Then you have the headphones transparency, or the amps transparency. Or the cleanliness of the power going into your gear that can give murk up the sound. I could be mistaken by what reviewers mean when they say this but when I listened for this black background I simply listened when music was playing to get the sense of the music notes emerging from nothing and going into nothing.
The difference could best be described like talking into an untreated room vs a treated room. Or speaking into a microphone and hearing yourself vs speaking in a treated room w/no mic. You can sense all of the digital artifacts around your voice through play back as if your voice has some indescribable cloud around it. Even at low volumes where you can't hear the system hiss you know something is there around your voice. Or when you speak in a treated room your voice abruptly stops and dies right after it hits your ears with no effect of being clouded by reverberations.
The hex has a little distortion, a decay that is not quick, and a lack of total transparency that makes it seem like the notes come from nothing. The LCD2.1 has a longer decay but less distortion and stronger transients that help the sounds feel like they protrude from the background further.
cute
Headphoneus Supremus
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The Edition X with my Kenzie Tube Amp has a totally black background, sound just appears, especially vocals, but the Amp is advertised as having that feature!
Excellent description, I think we meant almost the same thing after all.
A good black background for me means absolutely dead quiet, no noise, no hissing, electrical noise etc. with volume up all the way. I short cut the test by playing a track before the music comes into play, over many testing, I almost filter out which amps hiss with which headphones so I would not even bother moving to check when Music is playing if it did not pass the test, because the sound will not leap out of nowhere if there are hiss or noise to begin with. If this test is passed, then we are talking about other factors like you mention like transients, attack, that helps propel the music out of darkness.
The HEX does have this perception of music leaping out of no where with AK240, pico slim and even better with DACPORT.
Thanks to the HFM audition program, I was fortunate to be one of the chosen few to check out the X and as agreed here's my take/review of this fine headphone.
I listen out of a Pioneer Spec system - a 1978 unit that was top of the line at the time. It's fed with multiple sources - an iPhone5 running EQ10 app or Pandora via a NuForce iDo DAC (an excellent little unit that uses the Apple TV remote (to start and stop tracks, advance tracks as needed), a Pioneer PDR609 CD player/recorder and a vintage Pioneer PL-S50 turntable. All three sources were used in the evaluation.
Presentation - lovely packaging and presentation - the box, internals and way the headphones are presented to you is quite nicely done. Much like the HE-6, it comes in a sturdy box (sturdy enough) with cut out foam that fits quite well. Like how well the foam fits and the removable cover that hides the cables is well executed.
Fit and finish - no complaints here on this pair. I have read numerous other reviews where the headphone finish was marginal but haven't noticed anything that seems out of place with the loaner I received from Grizzlybeast. One side of the plastic (!) gimbals is a bit loose so I guess you could deduct some points for lack of impeccable finish but overall they were pretty nicely put together - but for $1800 they should be, right? Not a big fan of all the use of plastic but it does cut down on the weight so there is that. They clamp nice and tight, a positive to my liking. However, for my head I was at the smallest setting...............even with a ball cap on. So that's gotta be a negative for ladies or someone with a smaller head. Also, when I took it one click down, my ears touched the dust cover - not good. Not enough depth on the pads in my opinion. And that "flybridge" squarish metal band - honestly I think they look ridiculous on the head. Had my wife put them on..............and laughed out loud at them. I know, when they are on the head it doesn't matter but I like a good looking headphone. A note about the pads - I noticed them feeling a bit "scratchy" to my ears along with the depth issue.
The system driving the X............
Sound - I listened to them along with my ENIGMAcoustics Dharma, Sennheiser HD800 and Denon LA7000 for comparison purposes during my time auditioning them. They are excellent sounding headphones overall but against this lineup they would rank last. Here's why -
Bass - yes, I'm a basshead at heart but what I'd now call an audiophile basshead, loving the deep sounds of the audio spectrum but with the clarity and cleanliness that allow you to feel the thump without the muddiness of my earlier days with headphones like the Sony XB500, my entry into the basshead world. The X has good bass but I'd call it, as others have said, "soft" compared to all the other headphones. Yes, even the HD800, out of this Spec system, has exceptional bass that is precise and hard hitting. The X had enough rumble to satisfy me so I'd say it's quite adequate with the low end.
Mids - an excellent headphone for vocal music. Kem is one of my test artists and his deep, strong voice is well presented with the X. Better than the Denon's, which are considered "V shaped" which I love and which is my favorite sound signature (own the D2000, D5000 as well as my fully modded LA7000).
Treble - again, the X seems "rolled off" or soft on the highs. All three of the other headphones have outstanding treble response with the Dharma being the king of this grouping, with it's electret tweeter. No real complaints with the X, just not as good as the other three.
Soundstage/imaging - lots of guys liked the wide, expansive soundstage but for me, comparing it to the king of soundstage (HD800) and the Dharma (which has excellent width) it was only so-so.
The X, though I read a lot of guys saying they are good out of portable sources, really seemed to like the power of the Spec system (which boasts 250wpc) and I volume matched it with the Dharma and it took more volume knob than the Dharma. Interesting.
Value - no way would I pay $1800 for the X. Compared to the Dharma ($1099) and the HD800 (I paid $990 via Amazon), it just isn't the quality of sound or construction to even consider being hundreds of dollars more than my other top end headphones. It's an excellent headphone and to folks stepping up from mid-tier offerings, it's probably noticeably better than most but when you own three other headphones that are clearly preferred to my ears, it's not a value proposition.
I appreciate being on the audition tour (thank you HFM!) and was hoping for a "HE-6 replacement" or at least a headphone that wowed me like the HE-6 did. This did not. I love the HE-6 (sold about 6 months ago) as well as still owning and loving the HE-400 (full open grill mod, Lohb headband pad, Audeze Vegan pads) which I drive out of the speaker taps of the Spec system and consider an outstanding headphone. I'd go so far as to say I prefer the HE-400 to the X due to the incredible bass it brings. So I like HFM products a lot and have heard most of their offerings - was on the audition tour for the HE-400i (did not like it near as much as the HE-400) and HE-560 (which I spent a month with comparing it head to head with the HE-6 which trounced it big time). I'm still waiting for the HE-6 replacement..............
I listen out of a Pioneer Spec system - a 1978 unit that was top of the line at the time. It's fed with multiple sources - an iPhone5 running EQ10 app or Pandora via a NuForce iDo DAC (an excellent little unit that uses the Apple TV remote (to start and stop tracks, advance tracks as needed), a Pioneer PDR609 CD player/recorder and a vintage Pioneer PL-S50 turntable. All three sources were used in the evaluation.
Presentation - lovely packaging and presentation - the box, internals and way the headphones are presented to you is quite nicely done. Much like the HE-6, it comes in a sturdy box (sturdy enough) with cut out foam that fits quite well. Like how well the foam fits and the removable cover that hides the cables is well executed.
Fit and finish - no complaints here on this pair. I have read numerous other reviews where the headphone finish was marginal but haven't noticed anything that seems out of place with the loaner I received from Grizzlybeast. One side of the plastic (!) gimbals is a bit loose so I guess you could deduct some points for lack of impeccable finish but overall they were pretty nicely put together - but for $1800 they should be, right? Not a big fan of all the use of plastic but it does cut down on the weight so there is that. They clamp nice and tight, a positive to my liking. However, for my head I was at the smallest setting...............even with a ball cap on. So that's gotta be a negative for ladies or someone with a smaller head. Also, when I took it one click down, my ears touched the dust cover - not good. Not enough depth on the pads in my opinion. And that "flybridge" squarish metal band - honestly I think they look ridiculous on the head. Had my wife put them on..............and laughed out loud at them. I know, when they are on the head it doesn't matter but I like a good looking headphone. A note about the pads - I noticed them feeling a bit "scratchy" to my ears along with the depth issue.
The system driving the X............
Sound - I listened to them along with my ENIGMAcoustics Dharma, Sennheiser HD800 and Denon LA7000 for comparison purposes during my time auditioning them. They are excellent sounding headphones overall but against this lineup they would rank last. Here's why -
Bass - yes, I'm a basshead at heart but what I'd now call an audiophile basshead, loving the deep sounds of the audio spectrum but with the clarity and cleanliness that allow you to feel the thump without the muddiness of my earlier days with headphones like the Sony XB500, my entry into the basshead world. The X has good bass but I'd call it, as others have said, "soft" compared to all the other headphones. Yes, even the HD800, out of this Spec system, has exceptional bass that is precise and hard hitting. The X had enough rumble to satisfy me so I'd say it's quite adequate with the low end.
Mids - an excellent headphone for vocal music. Kem is one of my test artists and his deep, strong voice is well presented with the X. Better than the Denon's, which are considered "V shaped" which I love and which is my favorite sound signature (own the D2000, D5000 as well as my fully modded LA7000).
Treble - again, the X seems "rolled off" or soft on the highs. All three of the other headphones have outstanding treble response with the Dharma being the king of this grouping, with it's electret tweeter. No real complaints with the X, just not as good as the other three.
Soundstage/imaging - lots of guys liked the wide, expansive soundstage but for me, comparing it to the king of soundstage (HD800) and the Dharma (which has excellent width) it was only so-so.
The X, though I read a lot of guys saying they are good out of portable sources, really seemed to like the power of the Spec system (which boasts 250wpc) and I volume matched it with the Dharma and it took more volume knob than the Dharma. Interesting.
Value - no way would I pay $1800 for the X. Compared to the Dharma ($1099) and the HD800 (I paid $990 via Amazon), it just isn't the quality of sound or construction to even consider being hundreds of dollars more than my other top end headphones. It's an excellent headphone and to folks stepping up from mid-tier offerings, it's probably noticeably better than most but when you own three other headphones that are clearly preferred to my ears, it's not a value proposition.
I appreciate being on the audition tour (thank you HFM!) and was hoping for a "HE-6 replacement" or at least a headphone that wowed me like the HE-6 did. This did not. I love the HE-6 (sold about 6 months ago) as well as still owning and loving the HE-400 (full open grill mod, Lohb headband pad, Audeze Vegan pads) which I drive out of the speaker taps of the Spec system and consider an outstanding headphone. I'd go so far as to say I prefer the HE-400 to the X due to the incredible bass it brings. So I like HFM products a lot and have heard most of their offerings - was on the audition tour for the HE-400i (did not like it near as much as the HE-400) and HE-560 (which I spent a month with comparing it head to head with the HE-6 which trounced it big time). I'm still waiting for the HE-6 replacement..............
^ I can definitely see how somebody who enjoys the HD800 treble and bass presentation would not be knocked out by the HEX. They are about as different as two high quality phones can get.
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