[sahmen]

Interesting comparison and it's closer than you might have expected, at least in this guy's opinion.

I also find this assessment to be mostly spot on and to match my own impressions, save for one or two characteristics that are strictly dependent on subjective preferences. The only point which could be debatable concerns his mention of an occasional slight upper-mids "shoutiness" of the Arya,(from the 11:00 minute point going..) which he considers to be "amp-dependent" and for which he suggests lower-powered amps as some kind of a solution... I found that to be a little debatable since I have used both Arya V3 and Susvara on my Niimbus US4, which is a powerful amp, without detecting any extra "shoutiness" on the Arya V3. I have also paired the Arya with the new Cayin RU6, which no-one would accuse of having excessive power, but I did not detect any difference in the level of "shoutiness" there on the Arya as compared with the Arya/Niimbus pairing

Mind you, I am not quarreling with the "shoutiness" he heard, and which I didn't, as that could be a legitimate matter of subjective preferences (although I also find myself to be quite treble sensitive). What I find debatable is his suggestion that this alleged "shoutiness" might necessarily be "amp-dependent" and that a lower-powered amp might solve or diminish it... The question is this: what about the influence of DACs, which a surprising number of such reviews completely ignore in their evaluations. Why can't that "shoutiness" or lack thereof be DAC-dependent (or even cable dependent)?

I have my Niimbus US4 paired with a Sonnet Morpheus, which has a NOS R-2R architecture, a characteristic which it shares with the Cayin RU6, except that the latter can function in either OS or NOS mode mode depending on the user's preference... Might it not be possible that I do not hear any of the alleged upper-mid "shoutiness" of the Arya V3 because I have only listened to it on amps that are paired with R-2R DACs? This issue cannot be completely clarified as long as reviewers of headphones refuse to take the influence of DACs into account (I wouldn't even bring in the role of cables, for the sake of brevity, but I hope my point is clear)

This is not an oversight for which only Michael is accountable. I actually have to give him props for taking amps into consideration--which is something many reviewers never do, unless they are forced to by amp-picky headphones like the Susvara, which would make omission of any mention of an amp almost a crime.

With all that said, Michael is always fun to listen to, and he seems to put a lot of work into making his videos sound and appear that way.

 

[cycloverid]

I don't "get" folks EQing to a "target" that a group of folks (expert or not) came up with as being "preferred." Seems to me that those who shoot for the same/similar targets are robbing individual and unique HPs of the things that make them unique - and are trying to make them sound generic and homogenized. I could see this in a studio to gain a general reference over different HPs - to get the mixing/mastering right - but not in casual/listening pleasure. Like a "one size fits all" way of thinking/listening .

I take a more objective view on this hobby. I want to see the measurement data and consensus data (Harman targets) as tools for understanding what I have and enjoy. Consensus data is like an evolving 'meta' that I can use and monitor my own personal deviation preferences (like with bass). An example is that I felt somewhat validated when the 2018 Harman target became far closer to my own personal preference prior to that data. Many audiophiles on the other hand have long been opponents of bass shelves. But this is clearly changing. It's really fun and interesting to play with EQ and see how this might evolve, or where I'm simply wrong and change my mind later.

As a 3d artist, I specifically don't want my monitor to deviate much from a certain color gamut (even for just personal enjoyment) - and likewise with my headphones I don't want them to deviate much from the Harman data. There are plenty of other physical factors that determine the quality of a monitor or headphone - contrast ratio or sound stage characteristics for example. These can't be altered in the color space in monitors or with EQ in headphones. This is what makes a device special for me personally.

It's the classic objectivist vs subjectivist argument. Both can be wrong in different ways, but I think the objectivist view is a far more scientific approach, which makes the most sense to me personally. Subjectivist headphone users are far more prone to believe in headphone burn-in, magic cables that transform headphones, or buying very expensive equipment to get far better sound. Individual experiences and perspectives can be very unreliable for a myriad of reasons.

In the end though, we're all here to just enjoy sound though and there absolutely isn't a perfectly correct truth in this hobby. It can be interesting to get different perspectives, regardless of how much I agree or disagree.

 

[cgb3]

I don't "get" folks EQing to a "target" that a group of folks (expert or not) came up with as being "preferred." Seems to me that those who shoot for the same/similar targets are robbing individual and unique HPs of the things that make them unique - and are trying to make them sound generic and homogenized. I could see this in a studio to gain a general reference over different HPs - to get the mixing/mastering right - but not in casual/listening pleasure. Like a "one size fits all" way of thinking/listening .

Where does one start? Always with a baseline. It's the same with any discipline.

How many times does the average human urinate in 24 hours? Large groups of humans were observed, and a baseline was established. Any divergence could be explained by location or physical condition.

The Harmon Target/Curve: https://audiosolace.com/harman-target-curve-explained/

 

[cgb3]

Where does one start? Always with a baseline. It's the same with any discipline.

How many times does the average human urinate in 24 hours? Large groups of humans were observed, and a baseline was established. Any divergence could be explained by location or physical condition.

The Harmon Target/Curve: https://audiosolace.com/harman-target-curve-explained/

I invariably adjust my phones EQ to my hearing. Published curves are an easy starting point.

 

[haasaaroni]

Where does one start? Always with a baseline. It's the same with any discipline.

How many times does the average human urinate in 24 hours? Large groups of humans were observed, and a baseline was established. Any divergence could be explained by location or physical condition.

The Harmon Target/Curve: https://audiosolace.com/harman-target-curve-explained/

Haha this is research I haven’t looked at before

Still, it’s worth keeping in mind that with bell curves like these (I assume that’s something both the harmone curve and “urine curve” have in common), most people are to one side or the other of the “average.” So yes, the average is a good place to start, but it should come as no surprise that it needs some tweaking to fit your hearing and preferences from there.

By the way, this comes from my 101-level understanding of statistics, so feel free to disregard!

 

[Reputator]

I take a more objective view on this hobby. I want to see the measurement data and consensus data (Harman targets) as tools for understanding what I have and enjoy. Consensus data is like an evolving 'meta' that I can use and monitor my own personal deviation preferences (like with bass). An example is that I felt somewhat validated when the 2018 Harman target became far closer to my own personal preference prior to that data. Many audiophiles on the other hand have long been opponents of bass shelves. But this is clearly changing. It's really fun and interesting to play with EQ and see how this might evolve, or where I'm simply wrong and change my mind later.

As a 3d artist, I specifically don't want my monitor to deviate much from a certain color gamut (even for just personal enjoyment) - and likewise with my headphones I don't want them to deviate much from the Harman data. There are plenty of other physical factors that determine the quality of a monitor or headphone - contrast ratio or sound stage characteristics for example. These can't be altered in the color space in monitors or with EQ in headphones. This is what makes a device special for me personally.

It's the classic objectivist vs subjectivist argument. Both can be wrong in different ways, but I think the objectivist view is a far more scientific approach, which makes the most sense to me personally. Subjectivist headphone users are far more prone to believe in headphone burn-in, magic cables that transform headphones, or buying very expensive equipment to get far better sound. Individual experiences and perspectives can be very unreliable for a myriad of reasons.

In the end though, we're all here to just enjoy sound though and there absolutely isn't a perfectly correct truth in this hobby. It can be interesting to get different perspectives, regardless of how much I agree or disagree.

You aren't conducting scientific studies with your headphones or creating audio content. Music enjoyment is inherently subjective, so "objectivism" in such an application literally doesn't exist. I don't know why some folks waste their time trying to turn audio enjoyment into some sort of ruler or metric.

 

[jonathan c]

You aren't conducting scientific studies with your headphones or creating audio content. Music enjoyment is inherently subjective, so "objectivism" in such an application literally doesn't exist. I don't know why some folks waste their time trying to turn audio enjoyment into some sort of ruler or metric.

…could it be?…music is actually more than the means to enjoy shiny audio gear …?

 

[haasaaroni]

…could it be?…music is actually more than the means to enjoy shiny audio gear …?

Gasp!

 

[cycloverid]

You aren't conducting scientific studies with your headphones or creating audio content. Music enjoyment is inherently subjective, so "objectivism" in such an application literally doesn't exist. I don't know why some folks waste their time trying to turn audio enjoyment into some sort of ruler or metric.

Would you buy or use a monitor that is tinted red? Is this even an interesting thought experiment when you insert something OTHER than headphones? If I'm playing a game or watching a movie for example, the subjective experience is NOT some 'artistic' tint the engineers applied to the monitor, it's the composition of the artist making the game or film. The device should be as neutral as possible using the most up to date science we have available to allow the artist's work to be represented as accurately as possible. As the science isn't totally settled yet, there is some wiggle room here admittedly,

You guys are really condescending! I'm all for a discussion, but these snarky remarks are really something....

 

[Tachyon88]

You aren't conducting scientific studies with your headphones or creating audio content. Music enjoyment is inherently subjective, so "objectivism" in such an application literally doesn't exist. I don't know why some folks waste their time trying to turn audio enjoyment into some sort of ruler or metric.

You have to have a tangible constant to juxtapose your experience to said mechanical device. Music enjoyment and physics goes hand in hand, its not a dichotomy.

 

[haasaaroni]

Would you buy or use a monitor that is tinted red? Is this even an interesting thought experiment when you insert something OTHER than headphones? If I'm playing a game or watching a movie for example, the subjective experience is NOT some 'artistic' tint the engineers applied to the monitor, it's the composition of the artist making the game or film. The device should be as neutral as possible using the most up to date science we have available to allow the artist's work to be represented as accurately as possible. As the science isn't totally settled yet, there is some wiggle room here admittedly,

You guys are really condescending! I'm all for a discussion, but these snarky remarks are really something....

I actually love your point. Sorry you're feeling condescended upon. This conversation can get really nuanced and detailed, and I'd rather not weigh in so much myself.

Anyway, we're both subjective and objective beings, aren't we? Science is a beautiful thing, as is religion. After all the Arya's were named after a term found quite commonly in Buddhism, but I personally use them for all my studio-monitor-like, accurate listening Go figure!

 

[ezduzit2500]

I didn't mean to open up a can of worms (a discussion is okay, let's not snipe at each other), but to simply say that I personally don't see the need to EQ every HP - unless it's lacking in one area or too excessive in another. That if I have to grossly EQ a HP for it to sound "good" or "right", I may want to look for other options. In any case, I don't really see the absolute "need" to EQ the Arya v3's - with my current chain. Straight, no chaser. Just for me, others views are also valid...

 

[Reputator]

You have to have a tangible constant to juxtapose your experience to said mechanical device. Music enjoyment and physics goes hand in hand, its not a dichotomy.

Why do you need a "constant" to compare against, in order to enjoy what you're hearing? I've never had that problem.

 

[cycloverid]

Why do you need a "constant" to compare against, in order to enjoy what you're hearing? I've never had that problem.

One answer I have for this is kind of a deep dive into human social instincts and an analysis of the 'hedonic treadmill' conundrum in life. Ignorance allows us to enjoy many things we otherwise wouldn't, but is that the goal?

The short answer is: to optimize the process of finding/building the best headphone for the most people.

 

[josh0001]

It looks like HIFIMAN has decided to take the drivers from the $2999 HE1000-V2, put them in the chassis of the Edition X-V2, call it the Arya, and charge $1599 for them. Very interesting!

http://hifiman.com/products/detail/297

Specifications:
Impedance: 35Ω
Sensitivity: 90db
Weight: 404g (14.3oz)
____________________________________________


Sept. 2021 Update:

A new version of the Arya is now available. It now comes with "Stealth Magnets" but retails for the same MSRP as the original Arya. More details can be found on HIFIMAN's webpage for them.

https://store.hifiman.com/index.php/arya.html

Great review thanks