[DarginMahkum]

*The way I see it, the R8 is two devices. One mode is full size headphones only (balanced). The second mode is IEMs (unbalanced). I don't think there's an IEM on the market that needs more driving power on unbalanced (save for LCDi4).

This needs to be the banner of this thread!

 

[Doctortre2481]

Just to have clarification, without downplaying it, about the topic of "hissing" since I sense some confusion. R8 has balanced 4.4mm output with 1W of whooping power and single ended 3.5mm output with 300mW of output. Either one will work fine with full size headphones and majority of IEMs. But with some sensitive IEMs, like Campfire stuff or Odin (or some other Empire iems), you will hear background waterfall type of hissing/noise when connected to BAL and Turbo is on. When you turn turbo off, there will be less background waterfall noise, and if you switch to a less powerful 3.5mm - it is a lot less noticeable and in some cases disappears.

The problem is often in design of these sensitive iems (type of drivers and crossover) and how the amplifier output stage of DAPs handles it. PLUS, the type of music you are listening to has a big contributing factor. While listening to EDM, Top40, pop/rock, r'n'b, etc. with more layered sounds/instruments, you won't hear that background waterfall type of hissing. But when listening to classical music where you have less busy arrangement with one or two instruments playing at a time, it is more noticeable. And of course, our ear sensitive and hearing level also a big contributing factor where some people don't even hear it from BAL output due to their tinnitus, etc.

So, it would be misleading to make a blanket statement "R8 is hissing", because it only happens with some sensitive IEMs when connected to BAL output. The same with many other DAPs, where, for example, only a few don't hiss with Campfire audio IEMs, while majority do.

Any hiss with the legend x balanced output ?

 

[tawmizzzz]

Any hiss with the legend x balanced output ?

I’ll be able to chip in on Tuesday if this hasn’t been answered by then

Edit: @Shecky504 has both LX and R8 I believe

 

[twister6]

Here we go!!! Hopefully, I will be able to answer many questions in my detailed review of Hiby R8 I just posted here. Enjoy the read!

 

[Shecky504]

I’ll be able to chip in on Tuesday if this hasn’t been answered by then

Edit: @Shecky504 has both LX and R8 I believe

When using the LX in balanced output with turbo mode enabled and high gain, if I listen for hiss I can hear it but it's not something I usually notice when listening to music. As has been said before you will not hear it with most music but it becomes more apparent with classical. Many recordings already contain hiss though so mostly what I'm hearing is part of the recording and not some extra hiss.

 

[Facta]

Here we go!!! Hopefully, I will be able to answer many questions in my detailed review of Hiby R8 I just posted here. Enjoy the read!

You actually dedicated a bullet point to 'hissing or not' to nip in the bud the possible misconception that 'R8 hisses' as a rule. Exhaustive work as usual from you and maybe the first R8 review out there that's actually useful.

 

[aaf evo]

You actually dedicated a bullet point to 'hissing or not' to nip in the bud the possible misconception that 'R8 hisses' as a rule. Exhaustive work as usual from you and maybe the first R8 review out there that's actually useful.

I’m not sure if that was directed to me or not as I have been the one making noise (no pun intended) about the hissing. I was very clear it was with the erlkonig only which is a sensitive IEM and that most of it was gone on the 3.5mm port.

 

[Facta]

I’m not sure if that was directed to me or not as I have been the one making noise (no pun intended) about the hissing. I was very clear it was with the erlkonig only which is a sensitive IEM and that most of it was gone on the 3.5mm port.

Certainly not directed at you. Quite a few potential buyers of R8 and its thread members are possessed by the fear of hissing. Have a great weekend.

 

[kp297]

Thanks @twister6 for your review! I’ve been doing some ‘hissing’ tests myself and have come to similar conclusions. My reference is the DMP Z1, and keep in mind I’m a picky customer. Just ask Andrew from Musicteck haha!

My testing for classical was done mostly using Leif Ove Andsnes’ album Chopin Ballades & Nocturnes unless otherwise noted. This album is well recorded and from my experience, an excellent album to weed out poor performing gear.

The fear of hissing is JUSTIFIED, but is over stated. It varies greatly with what gear you use. I think the R8 should be advertised as a two in one device. You have a desktop grade amplifier intended for full size headphones and portable amplifier intended for IEMs, and you have the option to boost voltage on each mode. I am seeking to help clarify the hiss issues we’ve noticed on the R8. Twister has done a great job addressing it in his review and hopefully I can add some insight to this issue as well.

Odin

• 4.4 mm is flat out unusable, don’t bother
• 3.5 Turbo- ok for electronic/rock/anything loudish
• 3.5 Non Turbo- this is where it’s at for classical

Elaborating on 4.4mm
Hiss is so distracting, I’ve actually changed my cable retermination request of the Stormbreaker from 4.4mm to 3.5mm. ‘Nuff said.

Elaborating on 3.5mm Turbo
The sonic benefits of Turbo on Odin’s isn’t easily distinguishable for classical. I struggled to hear a difference, even on technical recordings such as Mengjie Han - Evocacion.

Elaborating on 3.5mm Non Turbo
So yes, there is a slight hiss. It’s not black like the DMP Z1. But it’s so low it took quite a bit of effort to weed it out and more importantly if you are listening to Andsnes’ Chopin, the background noise of the recording itself will completely take over the hiss of the R8. I’ve spent about an hour listening to just the first track multiple times (particularly 7:01 timecode), playing during muting, playing and less than whisper volume, and at regular volume. I can conclude non turbo 3.5mm will MOST likely be excellent for those using Odin’s. It becomes quite difficult, almost impossible to suss out the recordings background hiss vs the devices hiss. I am confident in stating Odin on 3.5mm Non Turbo isn’t an issue. I actually got a mild headache after this evaluation session, so I stopped listening for a couple of hours.

Dunu Luna
Similar story here, I didn’t spend nearly as much time as I did with the Odin’s but 3.5mm non turbo seems the way to go for classical listening. Turbo mode doesn't provide any detectable sonic benefit here.

I know what some may be thinking, ‘what a waste not using balanced’. This may be true for SOME devices, but not true for R8. Audibly, no difference. I’m now listening to Suye Park’s Paganini - Caprices for solo violin, Op. 1 Nos. 1 and examining violin decay for Track 5. DMP Z1, a significant audible difference between 4.4mm and 3.5mm. On R8, both circuits are very well designed and I can’t find a sonic benefit here. The only reason I would use balanced is for greater power delivery for desktop headphones.

R8 proves, once again, unbalanced and balanced can deliver the same audio quality, but differ only in power delivery. I wonder, would it be possible to make a turbo mode that increases voltage which doesn't affect hissing level? If anyone with circuit design experience/knowledge could shed light on this, I would love to hear it. Also if anyone at Hiby could explain the audio circuit design process and why this particular implementation was chosen, that would be cool too.

TLDR: Balanced doesn't mean better. It just means more power. And that doesn't mean better performance. It just means more power.

Edit: I had an epic piano experience with Odin on R8, you can check out my posting here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/emp...merly-earwerkz.786335/page-1666#post-15858281

 

[Doctortre2481]

When using the LX in balanced output with turbo mode enabled and high gain, if I listen for hiss I can hear it but it's not something I usually notice when listening to music. As has been said before you will not hear it with most music but it becomes more apparent with classical. Many recordings already contain hiss though so mostly what I'm hearing is part of the recording and not some extra hiss.

hmmm twister said no hiss I guess ill have to test it myself.

 

[gLer]

Thanks @twister6 for your review! I’ve been doing some ‘hissing’ tests myself and have come to similar conclusions. My reference is the DMP Z1, and keep in mind I’m a picky customer. Just ask Andrew from Musicteck haha!

My testing for classical was done mostly using Leif Ove Andsnes’ album Chopin Ballades & Nocturnes unless otherwise noted. This album is well recorded and from my experience, an excellent album to weed out poor performing gear.

The fear of hissing is JUSTIFIED, but is over stated. It varies greatly with what gear you use. I think the R8 should be advertised as a two in one device. You have a desktop grade amplifier intended for full size headphones and portable amplifier intended for IEMs, and you have the option to boost voltage on each mode. I am seeking to help clarify the hiss issues we’ve noticed on the R8. Twister has done a great job addressing it in his review and hopefully I can add some insight to this issue as well.

Odin

• 4.4 mm is flat out unusable, don’t bother
• 3.5 Turbo- ok for electronic/rock/anything loudish
• 3.5 Non Turbo- this is where it’s at for classical

Elaborating on 4.4mm
Hiss is so distracting, I’ve actually changed my cable retermination request of the Stormbreaker from 4.4mm to 3.5mm. ‘Nuff said.

Elaborating on 3.5mm Turbo
The sonic benefits of Turbo on Odin’s isn’t easily distinguishable for classical. I struggled to hear a difference, even on technical recordings such as Mengjie Han - Evocacion.

Elaborating on 3.5mm Non Turbo
So yes, there is a slight hiss. It’s not black like the DMP Z1. But it’s so low it took quite a bit of effort to weed it out and more importantly if you are listening to Andsnes’ Chopin, the background noise of the recording itself will completely take over the hiss of the R8. I’ve spent about an hour listening to just the first track multiple times (particularly 7:01 timecode), playing during muting, playing and less than whisper volume, and at regular volume. I can conclude non turbo 3.5mm will MOST likely be excellent for those using Odin’s. It becomes quite difficult, almost impossible to suss out the recordings background hiss vs the devices hiss. I am confident in stating Odin on 3.5mm Non Turbo isn’t an issue. I actually got a mild headache after this evaluation session, so I stopped listening for a couple of hours.

Dunu Luna
Similar story here, I didn’t spend nearly as much time as I did with the Odin’s but 3.5mm non turbo seems the way to go for classical listening. Turbo mode doesn't provide any detectable sonic benefit here.

I know what some may be thinking, ‘what a waste not using balanced’. This may be true for SOME devices, but not true for R8. Audibly, no difference. I’m now listening to Suye Park’s Paganini - Caprices for solo violin, Op. 1 Nos. 1 and examining violin decay for Track 5. DMP Z1, a significant audible difference between 4.4mm and 3.5mm. On R8, both circuits are very well designed and I can’t find a sonic benefit here. The only reason I would use balanced is for greater power delivery for desktop headphones.

R8 proves, once again, unbalanced and balanced can deliver the same audio quality, but differ only in power delivery. I wonder, would it be possible to make a turbo mode that increases voltage which doesn't affect hissing level? If anyone with circuit design experience/knowledge could shed light on this, I would love to hear it. Also if anyone at Hiby could explain the audio circuit design process and why this particular implementation was chosen, that would be cool too.

TLDR: Balanced doesn't mean better. It just means more power. And that doesn't mean better performance. It just means more power.

Edit: I had an epic piano experience with Odin on R8, you can check out my posting here https://www.head-fi.org/threads/emp...merly-earwerkz.786335/page-1666#post-15858281

Good points. The corollary of course is the IEM, and that's where synergy comes in. I've never had a hiss issue with any of my 64 Audio IEMs on any source - even a 9W Audio-gd desktop amp - so it's very much about the pairing. If you're invested into super sensitive IEMs like Odin or Elkronig (and naturally the Campfire crew) then I guess you have to be very selective with your sources. But I also believe there are advantages to a well implemented balanced circuit and I wouldn't dismiss it outright for IEMs that don't have hissing fits.

 

[normie610]

Here we go!!! Hopefully, I will be able to answer many questions in my detailed review of Hiby R8 I just posted here. Enjoy the read!

Thanks man!

May I ask what adapter did you use when using the Elysium out of 4.4mm? Or is your Elysium cable already terminated with 4.4mm?

 

[normie610]

Can somebody here please explain what is the main cause of hissing on IEMs? Is it purely the impedance and sensitivity measurement (e.g. 16 ohm, 117 db) or does it also depend on the driver type and crossover network used?

I’m asking since when I see the impedance and sensitivity of Ely and Erlky, both are shown to be almost identical, and yet @aaf evo experienced hissing w/ Erlky whereas @twister6 didn’t have any hissing with Elysium.

Thanks in advance guys.

 

[arijitroy2]

@DarginMahkum So I think i have made up my mind in getting the D9200 whenever the R8 lands hopefully next week! This headphone is a bit of an underdog, not a lot of people use or know it!
Can you tell me how does jazz and indie/acoustical based songs sound on this combo? Thanks!

 

[KevP]

Any hiss with the legend x balanced output ?

Not for me. But I’m not so sensitive to it.