[Author]

Thanks. That was the wrong word choice. I know I’ll be looking for a different sound signature - less clinical- than what an 800 would provide. My understanding is that planars are warmer sounding. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Monsterzero]

HD800s are quite analytical, but not all dynamic headphones sound like the HD800.
Some planars are warmer than others, the same as dynamic headphones. The real difference in planar vs. dynamic is the bass presentation, and transient speed.

You might read this...I tend to agree with what is written here on the topic.

https://www.headphones.com/blogs/ne...part,them immediately recognizable as planars.

 

[go_vtec]

..I enjoy all genres except for most rap and all death metal. I’ll eventually scale up to something like an 800s (classical/jazz) and something boomier like planar for more bass heavy music.

I appreciate your help.

I assume you meant "fuller" or "tighter" sounding planar . As far as the amps you mentioned, Mjolnir will no doubtfully sound more articulate and a tad bit fuller with high-end planar headphones and HD800S over latest Lyr as an amp.

With HD650/HD660S, there will be a tiny bit of perceived differences, but it will be very difficult to notice for a newbie depending on types of music and sources you will be using. Mjolnir is a middle of the road approach where you want the dynamic and speed of solid state amp and some hint of tubyness as a hybrid amp.

YMMV, but a typical high end user will actually get both high end solid state amp and Output transformerless (OTL) tube amp to get fully tube sound. FYI, an OTL amp is a type of vacuum tube amplifier, which omits an output transformer for the purpose of greater linearity and fidelity and excellent to drive high impedance cans like Senn HD800S or HD650. Cost of these types of amps can run anywhere between few hundreds to few thousands. A good powerful solid state amp can be fairly affordable, such as THX 789, and can be had for around $300. When you start looking for a slightly warmer or more musical amp, that add a hint of coloration to the amplified sounds, that is when you get to browse through many fully solid state options or some form of hybrid tube amplifiers or OTL tube amps.

Is hybrid is what you are looking for now? Or are you looking to buy a statement system that could scale with your future purchases? If latter and you have a wallet for it, then of couse Lyr will be better investment. Topology of Lyr and Mjolnir are significantly different but for mere morals or newbies, these will sound virtually same with only a little bit of perceived differences on HD650 or even less noticeable on HD660S. If you are a trained musician or mixing sound engineer, you are trained by your occupation to hear these tiny differences in sonic signatures on their initial impact, transient, decay, coloration, echo, spaciness, soundstage, speed, and overall tonal balance on these amps. However, for most of newbies, if they were to be blind folded and play the same source with these two amps, they will be hard pressed to tell the differences until they have certain reference songs and really get used to these songs' sonic signatures on a reasonably decent system with HD800S for months. Now, if you were to just change the amp on this virtual setup with HD800S (high end dynamic headphones or any good planar), you will perceive some differences when you fully turn up the volume and use the right source/music. I'm not trying to be judgmental here on you or any other newbies seeking answers, but trying to save you some $$$ and buyer's remorse over an expensive amp purchase without knowing what headphones you will get first.

Frankly, if someone was to ask me, YMMV, I would suggest to figure out your total budget for the system, then spend about 50-70% of your total budget on the headphones, then spend the rest of your money on DAC/AMP. However, it will be a lot easier and less costly to experiment with amps after you learn more about what these sonic characteristics are first on a modest system, then start audition the future system options to decide to select one. I know the COIVD-19 stopped most of head-fi meets and demo from the dealers, but things will eventually improve and it will be a lot safer and less costly to wait to hear the amps, than make the purchase based on words of mouths. A mid level planar headphones will most likely to be Hifiman or Audeze brand at around $1K. A good pair of dynamic headphones will be around to that price, such as Focal Clear or Senn HD800S/HD8XX.

Now the question is what is your planned budget for the total system and do you really want to buy planar or high end dynamic headphones? If not, buy more "affordable" but really good amp like Lyr and put more money towards the better headphones. Both amps you mentioned have sufficient musical talents and powers to drive virtually any headphones. When you start considering $2K+ cans, I would recommend considering to upgrade your Lyr to the highend amp such as Mjolnir and others.

 

[Author]

I assume you meant "fuller" or "tighter" sounding planar . As far as the amps you mentioned, Mjolnir will no doubtfully sound more articulate and a tad bit fuller with high-end planar headphones and HD800S over latest Lyr as an amp.

With HD650/HD660S, there will be a tiny bit of perceived differences, but it will be very difficult to notice for a newbie depending on types of music and sources you will be using. Mjolnir is a middle of the road approach where you want the dynamic and speed of solid state amp and some hint of tubyness as a hybrid amp.

YMMV, but a typical high end user will actually get both high end solid state amp and Output transformerless (OTL) tube amp to get fully tube sound. FYI, an OTL amp is a type of vacuum tube amplifier, which omits an output transformer for the purpose of greater linearity and fidelity and excellent to drive high impedance cans like Senn HD800S or HD650. Cost of these types of amps can run anywhere between few hundreds to few thousands. A good powerful solid state amp can be fairly affordable, such as THX 789, and can be had for around $300. When you start looking for a slightly warmer or more musical amp, that add a hint of coloration to the amplified sounds, that is when you get to browse through many fully solid state options or some form of hybrid tube amplifiers or OTL tube amps.

Is hybrid is what you are looking for now? Or are you looking to buy a statement system that could scale with your future purchases? If latter and you have a wallet for it, then of couse Lyr will be better investment. Topology of Lyr and Mjolnir are significantly different but for mere morals or newbies, these will sound virtually same with only a little bit of perceived differences on HD650 or even less noticeable on HD660S. If you are a trained musician or mixing sound engineer, you are trained by your occupation to hear these tiny differences in sonic signatures on their initial impact, transient, decay, coloration, echo, spaciness, soundstage, speed, and overall tonal balance on these amps. However, for most of newbies, if they were to be blind folded and play the same source with these two amps, they will be hard pressed to tell the differences until they have certain reference songs and really get used to these songs' sonic signatures on a reasonably decent system with HD800S for months. Now, if you were to just change the amp on this virtual setup with HD800S (high end dynamic headphones or any good planar), you will perceive some differences when you fully turn up the volume and use the right source/music. I'm not trying to be judgmental here on you or any other newbies seeking answers, but trying to save you some $$$ and buyer's remorse over an expensive amp purchase without knowing what headphones you will get first.

Frankly, if someone was to ask me, YMMV, I would suggest to figure out your total budget for the system, then spend about 50-70% of your total budget on the headphones, then spend the rest of your money on DAC/AMP. However, it will be a lot easier and less costly to experiment with amps after you learn more about what these sonic characteristics are first on a modest system, then start audition the future system options to decide to select one. I know the COIVD-19 stopped most of head-fi meets and demo from the dealers, but things will eventually improve and it will be a lot safer and less costly to wait to hear the amps, than make the purchase based on words of mouths. A mid level planar headphones will most likely to be Hifiman or Audeze brand at around $1K. A good pair of dynamic headphones will be around to that price, such as Focal Clear or Senn HD800S/HD8XX.

Now the question is what is your planned budget for the total system and do you really want to buy planar or high end dynamic headphones? If not, buy more "affordable" but really good amp like Lyr and put more money towards the better headphones. Both amps you mentioned have sufficient musical talents and powers to drive virtually any headphones. When you start considering $2K+ cans, I would recommend considering to upgrade your Lyr to the highend amp such as Mjolnir and others.

Just what I was looking for. So much there. Thank you for the excellent write-up. You've confirmed my line of thinking on some issues, and you've also provided excellent guidance as I determine next steps. My primary concern is buying something that will scale up nicely -- as you said, what drew me to the Lyr was the DAC/AMP combination (still a couple hundred less than the Mjolnir). What is interesting about this is, for example, there is a portable device, the new (if hideous looking) iFi Diablo, which is priced comparably. Not a storied company like Schitt.

As I read about the Mjolnir earlier, I came to realize it's trying, at least to some extent, to meet the needs of both audiences (Planar and Dynamic). Your comments reassured me on that front -- and it's why I'm interested in the device. Unlike the Lyr, there's no DAC, but when I understand DAC technology a bit better, and my ears become a bit more experienced, I'll likely purchase one. As you suspect, my ears aren't tuned to easily hear the differences you've described, at least not beyond basic understanding of signatures like warm vs. analytical, resolution, and sound stage.

I don't mind spending the money for peace of mind. I want equipment that gives me a good middle-of-the-road experience for headphones in the $1000 plus (give or take) range. My next purchases will likely be the 8XX, a planar, and a good closed-back. And I want an amp that will give me an honest taste of both the 800 and a planar. If I lean toward one sound over the other, I might splurge on more high-end equipment. So I'm leaning toward the Mjolnir -- as much as I like the idea of a DAC being part of the Lyr, I figure I'll get a better taste of both worlds with the more expensive Mjolnir.

You were spot on with many of your assumptions. Again -- thank you. If you have more thoughts, feel free to share.

 

[go_vtec]

I guess if you don't want to second guess your amp and get sufficient power to drive virtually any headphones, Mjolnir may be way to go. I do have to warn you that Mjolnir doesn't really sound too warm, and it doesn't add tons of tube coloration like some OTL amps. It sounds a hint more tube-like than Lyr to my ears, but both amps do sound more like a good balanced solid state amp with just a hint of tube coloration/warmth. This trait will be slightly more noticeable on high impedance reference cans like HD8xx/HD800S where these headphones are also known to show the most of colorations on its source/amp chain.

 

[Author]

I guess if you don't want to second guess your amp and get sufficient power to drive virtually any headphones, Mjolnir may be way to go. I do have to warn you that Mjolnir doesn't really sound too warm, and it doesn't add tons of tube coloration like some OTL amps. It sounds a hint more tube-like than Lyr to my ears, but both amps do sound more like a good balanced solid state amp with just a hint of tube coloration/warmth. This trait will be slightly more noticeable on high impedance reference cans like HD8xx/HD800S where these headphones are also known to show the most of colorations on its source/amp chain.

I can get my hands on a Darkvoice tube amp eventually (it’s a family member’s). Do you think that’s worth hooking up?

 

[go_vtec]

If you want to experience an OTL amp with HD650 to get an idea what tube amp sounds like, the Darkvoice will certainly serve that purpose. FYI, Mjolnir will sound substantially more dynamic with more smooth high extension and less grainy than Darkvoice.

 

[barrypew]

I get what people are saying about the Magnius and Modius combo, but I have both those headphones, and I think a lot of these recommendations are overkill. Unless you plan on going higher end with headphones in the future, I would go with the magni/modi setup. They drive the Moondrops and HD6xx really well. I also like them with the Hifiman 4xx, which I think is a fun (and different enough) headphone to add to that collection.
That Magni/Modi would be $200 vs the $400 for what you were looking at. And then add a Vali 3 to the top of the stack. You'll have tubes and great volume control. To get more fun add the Loki for the EQ. Then you can reliably listen to a ton of variety of music, and the stack will power what you have really well.
Just some opinions from an owner of those products.

P.S. I also have the Asgard 3 and Modi Multibit, which is most of my real current setup. But I kind wish I would have stuck with the Magni because I loved it.