[JonnyB]

Hello everyone,
I'm new to Head-Fi and also the audiophile community in general. And already I'm lost
So, I've owned a Fiio X1 with a pair of RHA T10s for a bunch of Years now and I was very pleased with both, but my lovely DAP is nearing its end(Battery life around 1.5 hours playback) and I just wanted to make a slight upgrade while still not overshooting my budget so I joined the drop of the Aune M1S on Massdrop. This DAP has a 2.5 balanced output and a normal 3.5 unbalanced output and after hours of research I know vaguely how the whole unbalanced versus balanced thing works BUT my questions are:

1.Can I use this balanced out with my current IEMs (somewhere I've read that connecting an unbalanced amp to a balanced Device it'll just fry the amplifier)
2.How
3. Does it benefit the sound at all with my setup

Sorry for bothering you and thanks to anyone helping me with my issue.

 

[Dulalala]

1. No you can't. Balanced has 4 poles while your IEM likely has 3 poles.
2. Y̶o̶u̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶d̶a̶p̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶b̶u̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶n̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶l̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶s̶o̶m̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶e̶n̶e̶f̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶a̶l̶a̶n̶c̶e̶d̶ ̶c̶o̶n̶n̶e̶c̶t̶i̶o̶n̶.̶ I'd recommend you just use the single ended output... It's not like IEM really use all that much power anyways.
3. Balanced is a rather controversial thing. Some people claim it improves the sound while others claim it has no audible benefits. What balanced does from a technical stand point is deliver more power and lowers noise.

Edit: Didn't know you can't do balanced to single ended. Sorry for wrong info.

 

[JonnyB]

Thank you very much for the quick and understandable answer, you've really helped me out!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

1.Can I use this balanced out with my current IEMs (somewhere I've read that connecting an unbalanced amp to a balanced Device it'll just fry the amplifier)
2.How

If your IEMs have a removable cable you need to buy a cable that is designed for balanced operation. In some cases stock cables just need to have the plug cut off and you install the balanced plug, wiring it as L+. L-. R-, R+, instead of the usual L+, GND, R+.

Note that you have to double check the wiring for each DAP (or amps) because there is no industry standard.

3. Does it benefit the sound at all with my setup

I wouldn't really bet on it, but if you can get the balanced cable cheap, then you have two cables now and use the SE as back up since it will work with more devices (note that you can use the balanced cable with an adapter for SE outputs).

 

[JonnyB]

Okey, thanks. Maybe I'll do that with my next Headphones

 

[buke9]

Do not use an adapter to go from 2.5 balanced to 3.5 unless it is also balanced as you will damage the player. You can go from single ended to balanced but not balanced to single ended. Period.

 

[JonnyB]

Do not use an adapter to go from 2.5 balanced to 3.5 unless it is also balanced as you will damage the player. You can go from single ended to balanced but not balanced to single ended. Period.

Jep that's what I've read somewhere else too, though I didn't really understand why it would damage the amp instead of just sounding bad

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Jep that's what I've read somewhere else too, though I didn't really understand why it would damage the amp instead of just sounding bad

Look at my previous post. Balanced circuits run L+, L-, R-, R+ on separate paths on the board, SE circuits run L+, shared GND, R+. If the headphone cable at any point joins up, depending on which one it is there doesn't matter, you'll short the circuit.

By contrast if your headphone cable is wired for balanced operation to the plug, provided the converter has the correct pin assignments to put L- and R- on the shared GND on the SE output, then it won't mess up the SE circuit. Again, you have to take into account how the balanced output is wired for every cable you use because there might be some variation even if they both use the same 2.5mm 4-pole TRRS plug, not to mention all the other options out there (the 6-pole Hirose that Ibasso used since the connection from balanced DAC to balanced amp needs six, and the more common square 4-pole).

 

[JonnyB]

Look at my previous post. Balanced circuits run L+, L-, R-, R+ on separate paths on the board, SE circuits run L+, shared GND, R+. If the headphone cable at any point joins up, depending on which one it is there doesn't matter, you'll short the circuit.

By contrast if your headphone cable is wired for balanced operation to the plug, provided the converter has the correct pin assignments to put L- and R- on the shared GND on the SE output, then it won't mess up the SE circuit. Again, you have to take into account how the balanced output is wired for every cable you use because there might be some variation even if they both use the same 2.5mm 4-pole TRRS plug, not to mention all the other options out there (the 6-pole Hirose that Ibasso used since the connection from balanced DAC to balanced amp needs six, and the more common square 4-pole).

Okay, now I get it. So probably the cheapest way to get the "benefit" of balanced headphones is to get an affordable IEM with removable cables and just get balanced cables like from Toxic Cables (probably mod them myself because I don't have 350 Bucks lying around). Thank you, a lot you've really helped me out with this whole issue.

 

[Dulalala]

Okay, now I get it. So probably the cheapest way to get the "benefit" of balanced headphones is to get an affordable IEM with removable cables and just get balanced cables like from Toxic Cables (probably mod them myself because I don't have 350 Bucks lying around). Thank you, a lot you've really helped me out with this whole issue.

Fiio sells an IEM (Model: F5) for about $80 that comes with a single ended and balanced cable so if you really want to try and see if balanced is better or not you could get that.

 

[JonnyB]

Fiio sells an IEM (Model: F5) for about $80 that comes with a single ended and balanced cable so if you really want to try and see if balanced is better or not you could get that.

They look nice and fiio usually doesn't sell trash so maybe I will check them out when my T10s are nearing their end, till then I'll use them with the normal unbalanced jack cause up till now I was allways very satisfied with them.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Okay, now I get it. So probably the cheapest way to get the "benefit" of balanced headphones is to get an affordable IEM with removable cables and just get balanced cables like from Toxic Cables (probably mod them myself because I don't have 350 Bucks lying around). Thank you, a lot you've really helped me out with this whole issue.

I'd much rather spend money on better IEMs than blow money on expensive cables (much less spend more on the IEM than the cables). If you can mod them, I'd buy even a spare stock cable or whatever cheap one you can get that doesn't compromise ergonomics (then again you won't be sure of the latter until you have them) as long as they run four conductors right up to the plug and then just have the L- and R- soldered into the GND pin (ex the Sennheiser HD600/650/580 cables; and I think Shure and Westone cables) and just solder on a TRRS or whatever balanced plug you need.

 

[JonnyB]

I'd much rather spend money on better IEMs than blow money on expensive cables (much less spend more on the IEM than the cables). If you can mod them, I'd buy even a spare stock cable or whatever cheap one you can get that doesn't compromise ergonomics (then again you won't be sure of the latter until you have them) as long as they run four conductors right up to the plug and then just have the L- and R- soldered into the GND pin (ex the Sennheiser HD600/650/580 cables; and I think Shure and Westone cables) and just solder on a TRRS or whatever balanced plug you need.

Well, it probably would be worth the try, if I botched it I could just buy another spare cable and mod that one. And who knows, maybe the Aune M1S doesn't sound noticeably better on the balanced output than the regular one. I'll just have to try.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Well, it probably would be worth the try, if I botched it I could just buy another spare cable and mod that one. And who knows, maybe the Aune M1S doesn't sound noticeably better on the balanced output than the regular one. I'll just have to try.

I didn't say "don't try," I meant "spend more money on the IEM now or a bit later and then get the balanced cable much, much later."

 

[JonnyB]

I didn't say "don't try," I meant "spend more money on the IEM now or a bit later and then get the balanced cable much, much later."

Yeah, you're probably right. Sorry for the poor phrasing on my last post, for now, I'll just write it on my list of stuff I wanna do with my setup and wait till my current headphones aren't up for the job anymore.