[nor_spoon]

I have the Zana Deux, which is well known to be a great amp to drive and
control the HD650's, but they are still far away from being the kind of bass monsters you seem to want them to be.

You would need other headphones for that, I am sure.

And, unfortunately, I do not think $500 will get you very far in your quest.

 

[plonter]

anybody have a review link on the M^3? I get no results with the search function.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nor_spoon /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have the Zana Deux, which is well known to be a great amp to drive and control the HD650's, but they are still far away from being the kind of bass monsters you seem to want them to be. You would need other headphones for that, I am sure. And, unfortunately, I do not think $500 will get you very far in your quest.

Is my best option is to get A more upscale amp than the ones i got? (In fact,I need this amp upgrade anyway...my amps are not up to the task anymore) dont get me wrong...the bass of the HD650 is NICE indeed...but I want a little more in quantity and a little more punch to it. I don't believe that I can't have it in any way...there must be some way to improve/increase the bass a little without bury the wallet.
can you recommend another open bass heavy can?

 

[plonter]

nevermind the link..I found it.

 

[1Time]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plonter /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would rather stay under 500$ but for something really good I maybe consider to spend more. I guess that my plans for going balanced with them will get further away as now I need to spend more money. and also as i understood, balanced will not help in my situation (adding bass) So if i am gonna get a new amp, I want it to be better than my current amps.

I suggest searching the amp forum for "HD650". Here is a related thread.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Time /img/forum/go_quote.gif I suggest searching the amp forum for "HD650". Here is a related thread.

I already started looking... thank you for the link,it's great.

 

[Sennshead]

Second on the EQ thing. It doesn't seem to get discussed all that much, but most people are in agreement that it makes a big difference. As has been said, it can make ok phones good and good sound great! All phones are have frequency weaknesses and strengths...and that's why EQs exist! If you haven't read the sticky yet, there's a great one on EQing phones.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sennshead /img/forum/go_quote.gif Second on the EQ thing. It doesn't seem to get discussed all that much, but most people are in agreement that it makes a big difference. As has been said, it can make ok phones good and good sound great! All phones are have frequency weaknesses and strengths...and that's why EQs exist! If you haven't read the sticky yet, there's a great one on EQing phones.

thanks, I maybe should give it a read. In fact, until now i never felt the need to equlize. although...no matter what other says, we all can agree that it is another part in the chain (if i will add an equlizer), and the sound quality reduces a bit. I am not using my computer as source, only my cd player.

EDIT: by the way, the equlization thread is mostly related to equalization in order to make the headphoned more toward flat frequency response, and not to add more colour to it. (which i believe is the more "correct" way for equlizing)
usually ,equalization is ment for reducing unwanted frequencies and not increase wanted ones like in my case...correct me if i am wrong.

 

[plonter]

I still feel like a good warm tube can help..between my more neutral tubes and the warmer tubes like the mullard and the tungsram there is a pretty audible difference in frequency response. but that is probably for the amp section.

 

[nor_spoon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plonter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is my best option is to get A more upscale amp than the ones i got? (In fact,I need this amp upgrade anyway...my amps are not up to the task anymore) dont get me wrong...the bass of the HD650 is NICE indeed...but I want a little more in quantity and a little more punch to it. I don't believe that I can't have it in any way...there must be some way to improve/increase the bass a little without bury the wallet. can you recommend another open bass heavy can?

I think EQ would be your only solution within your budget. Even the Zana Deux does not transform the HD650's into something they aren't in the first place. They still sound like HD650's, but with tighter, more well defined bass, less veil because of the control in bass and mid-bass. Also, the soundstage is expanded.
I can not really recommend you an open bass heavy can, but I am sure others are able to.

 

[plonter]

thanks for the comments guys. I am just having a listening session with them and I am more impressed from session to session. I think they have reached the 100 hours mark already. the bass seems to improve but it lacks some serious punch.
ofcourse this improvement is with the kind help of tubes...they are supposed to be warm straight out of a cold SS amp,
aren't they?
I got to the conclusion that they are not (IMO) ideal headphones for electronic music, they have a kind of bass that is great for rock and jazz stuff etc. but NOT for electronic (too bad...I loooove trance music) . anyone thinks differently?

I will try to play with tubes for a while and see how it goes... right now, with the tung-sol the bass in nice and creamy and the highs are also impressive.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plonter /img/forum/go_quote.gif I still feel like a good warm tube can help..between my more neutral tubes and the warmer tubes like the mullard and the tungsram there is a pretty audible difference in frequency response. but that is probably for the amp section.

The problem with tubes is that they tend to slow and thicken the low end. Tubes simply aren't as fast as solid state when it comes to the low end. If you want deeper bass and more punch, a warmer tube will only thicken the sound.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif The problem with tubes is that they tend to slow and thicken the low end. Tubes simply aren't as fast as solid state when it comes to the low end. If you want deeper bass and more punch, a warmer tube will only thicken the sound.

you are absolutely right..there is nothing like the SS dynamic and puchy sound. this is their advantage over tube amps.
right now I am sacrificing some dynamic and speed for a more warm and lush sound.
but listen to this...the bass has improved by a margin...like magic.
maybe burn in...don't know. but the HD650 performance (not only in the bass region) improves from session to session remarkbly. they just blew my mind with bass in the last 3 hours. (still lacks the punch I would like)

now i can feel it! I am just in a listening session with the HD650+EF1 and a tung sol tube. the perfect sound I heard for a long time. deep tight bass and lush and creamy mids and also crispy extended highs (what rolled off highs??). the best tube I heard so far that's for sure.

probably the next upgrade would be balancing them.

 

[jUmB0]

all albums are released to market already equalized as intended. boosting or reducing frequencies is a kludge. With an EQ you are making up for deficiencies in your setup and or retooling the piece into what you expected, not what the artist intended. EQs belong in mixing and mastering applications. a dog does not belong in a fish tank, an eq does not belong in signal chains for listening. an eq will surely make a difference, u can send crazy bass to hd650s with an eq, bass that wasn't supposed to be there in the first place.

you may be seeking something physics does not allow. the hd650 will never be as efficient on the low end as closed headphones. no amount of voodoo can overcome this. amplifier voodoo can only do so much, eventually there is a point where you are altering the signal into something alien. the hd650 can only be the hd650, i love it as it is, if you accept the hd650 with no expectations the hd650 will love you back.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jUmB0 /img/forum/go_quote.gif all albums are released to market already equalized as intended. boosting or reducing frequencies is a kludge. With an EQ you are making up for deficiencies in your setup and or retooling the piece into what you expected, not what the artist intended. EQs belong in mixing and mastering applications. a dog does not belong in a fish tank, an eq does not belong in signal chains for listening. an eq will surely make a difference, u can send crazy bass to hd650s with an eq, bass that wasn't supposed to be there in the first place. you may be seeking something physics does not allow. the hd650 will never be as efficient on the low end as closed headphones. no amount of voodoo can overcome this. amplifier voodoo can only do so much, eventually there is a point where you are altering the signal into something alien. the hd650 can only be the hd650, i love it as it is, if you accept the hd650 with no expectations the hd650 will love you back.

agree. they can never sound like a closed can. but they quite amazed me in the last few hours of listening. this is the HD650 like I thought they should be when I bought them. one of the reason for me getting those is that I wanted full bass sound with an open signature, unlike the denons. overall I always prefered open cans for their sound.
I also agree about equlizing, I am pretty much against it in the listening chain, but in the end, the most important thing is the fun of listening. this is more important IMO than accuracy.

the advantage of hybrid amps is that they combine the tube sound with the SS sound and dynamics,although not as a full SS.

I am taking back what I said about the EF1, it's really amazing for its price,
you just need a good tube to get the best out of it.

I noticed that the HD650 represents the bass as it is. if there is no bass in the recording you won't hear it.
with the denons ,you hear bass even if there is no bass at all in the recording.