[ooheadsoo]

Group delay becomes less and less significant as it is pushed under 50-60hz, depending on your school of thought, and while I used to be in the sealed alignment camp, I've discovered that implementation is the true key.

 

[kramer5150]

The best under $200 sub I have heard was a DIY... Adire Shiva with a parts express plate amp, and a 3/4" thick MDF cabinet. Not the prettiest to look at, but dayum... for $200 I was floored. It destroyed my $350 Boston sub.

Ive been very happy with my Triad Bronze. Its a Peerless driver pushed by a proprietary amp, in a small sealed enclosure. I am not sure if they make cheaper models... might want to look into it.

Garrett

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johan851 Meaning placement is of higher concern? Or do you mean that I'm more likely to hit resonant frequencies of objects in my room and make more rattling? The way it's looking now it makes sense to save up a little and pick up the S12. No sense in getting the S8 and then wanting more later, right?

Yup, if the sub is producing 25Hz, you'll notice problems that you wouldn't notice in a smaller sub. Not just resonance, but sometimes standing waves will load your room with boomy sounding bass. For example, you might have a huge 25Hz spike in your room. It's not the fault of the sub, just the acoustics.

BUT don't wait too long, the S12's are selling fast, and when they disappear, they might not restock (tons of people bought the S10, but they are no longer available at the 50% price)

 

[powderific]

I'm glad I read this thread as I have been looking for a sub as well. My speakers start to cut out around 60-70 hz ( they are full range Fostex 103's, which are itty bitty 4" speakers, in a zigmahornet enclosure). I love their sound, but I need something else to help out the little guys, and I've heard that they integrate very nicely with a decent sub. I was considering building one out of an Adire audio shiva, but I don't have the tools in my apartment. (I built my current speakers though, so it would be possible).

Would something like an S8 or S10 hit those somewhat higher notes acceptably? Also, I can only find S8's and s12's on the net right now, any sources for the S10?

Good topic anyhoo.

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by powderific Would something like an S8 or S10 hit those somewhat higher notes acceptably? Also, I can only find S8's and s12's on the net right now, any sources for the S10?

Definitely...any decent sub can crossover up to 100Hz no problem. It's common for people to crossover at 80Hz for home theater (the THX recommendation)

Vanns.com had the S10 for $250 but they are sold out. Like the S12, it was half price, and a honkin' amazing deal.

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkless I've considered getting an SVS PB10-ISD: http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10isd.cfm Anyone who've tried that one, or any of the SVS subs in particular? I know it's been receiving a LOT of good press in various Scandinavian speaker/AV forums.

Yes, good stuff in general. Hard to beat the sheer dB's per dollar in SVS products. I'd also recommend the Mirage S12 which will put out more dB's above 25Hz, whereas the PB10 will smack the Mirage below 25Hz.

Keep in mind that the PB10 has no crossover, you need a home theater receiver with sub output to drive it.

 

[johan851]

Quote:

BUT don't wait too long, the S12's are selling fast, and when they disappear, they might not restock (tons of people bought the S10, but they are no longer available at the 50% price)

Hmm...yeah. If that's the case, then this may have to turn into a summer DIY project or something. I can't really afford it now unless I cancel my HD595 order and shift some stuff around...

 

[powderific]

Thanks warpdriver, that's what I needed to know. It's too bad they seem to be disappearing, are there any comparable subs? The S10 looked about perfect for me. At the moment I don't need huge dB level as I live in an apartment building, but I do want something that can get nice and low and will last me a while.

 

[johan851]

After a little thought, it seemed to me that the S12 was a good buy. Does anyone know why it's backordered/preordered on the Vanns website?

I figure that this is something I'll have around for a long time, and will be a nice complement to my bookshelves, which do a wonderful job in the high/midrange. It seemed like a better investment than the HD595's, which should be around for a while. If I really want some phones in the future I'll probably pick up some MS-1's, K501's, or HD580's or something.

 

[powderific]

johan, I think that you are probably making a good decision if you go with the sub. You already have a system that you like, and the sub will probably have a huge "seat of the pants" improvement for you. The HD595's would certainly be groovy, but judging by your profile you are currently headphone amp free, so you might not have gotten the most enjoyment out of them anyway. A nice sub to compliment your bookshelf units will DEFINATELY give you great satisfaction for quite a while to come.

I am also curious as to the lack of these subwoofers, especially the S10, are they being discontinued or are they just in very high demand?

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johan851 After a little thought, it seemed to me that the S12 was a good buy. Does anyone know why it's backordered/preordered on the Vanns website?

Vanns is buying out huge quantities of the subs from Mirage, and thus is able to offer then at that great deal so they've been selling like hotcakes. They had that price for a while now (at least a month), and finally ran out. Definitely give them a call to find out what their status is, last I heard they were expecting more.

Mirage stated that they are not being discontinued which I do believe because they've only been out a year, but who knows if they have something up their sleeve.

FYI: the sister company Energy makes a nearly identical sub called the Energy 12.3 (same ribbed driver technology, amp, internal volume). It did very well in Tom Nousaine's tests scoring excellent linearity scores at max output.

 

[johan851]

Quote:

I am also curious as to the lack of these subwoofers, especially the S10, are they being discontinued or are they just in very high demand?

Indeed, I would rather have the S10, especially at the price point it was at.

I have one more concern...I'm in college, and currently living in a house with a group of guys, most of whom would not mind some real bass. But there is a couple downstairs that very well might. On top of that, almost all of my movies are ripped, and I'm not sure how good the audio quality is. Generally, I would guess ~160kbps VBR MP3. That said, is the S12 too much bass? It seems like the S8 would fill everything out enough for music (my top priority) while still giving me a little more oomph is movies. What do you think? I definitely wouldn't mind saving $200...

I also move a little bit, so portable is better.

 

[powderific]

Even a little 8" could probably resonate a good bit more than you might expect. My mom had a tiny, tiny little sub for some computer speakers I gave her that was audible throughout the house as a vague thumpiness. The advantage of the S12 in your situation would seem to be the extra range on the bottom end, and you can always just turn down the sub volume.

I think it would be very worthwhile to try finding the S10, maybe they'll get some more at Vanns. But really, it sounds like the S8 can definately hold its own. The S10 just seems like it would have a bit more longevity if you find yourself somewhere you can use it a bit more. Also, as far as size goes the S12 is 19.29 x 15.67 x 19.41 inches, height width depth. So it's not GIGANTIC or anything.

 

[warpdriver]

I think one could be very happy with a S8 to augment some bookshelf speakers for music. And if you ever get the itch to upgrade, you could maybe migrate it to a secondary system.

Is the S12 too much bass? For movies, there is no such thing. I want to be shaken out of my seat, and the S12 is certainly capable of conveying that feeling. But at the same time, it's capable of sounding very good with just music. But bass does travel through floors easily and you are right in thinking that it will travel and possibly bug the neighbours.

A common "mod" to help prevent a wood floor from resonating is to put the sub on a isolation platform (the Auralex Subdude) which dampens vibrations and keeps the bass tight.

 

[powderific]

That SubDude device looks like it would be very handy for an apartment building, I'm curious though, does it hurt the output any? Say, if I had one with the little S8, would it make it too weak?