[johan851]

I know this forum is geared towards the headphone crowd, but I know there have got to be some speaker guys out there. Anywho, I need a subwoofer. I think. I'll start with my setup:

MPC/FLAC/CD --> AV710 --> Yamaha RX-V393 --> Harman Kardon HKB6's.

Receiver here: http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/prod...ht/rxv393.html
HKB6's here: http://www.harmankardon.com/product_...ump=ps&#active

I really enjoy these speakers, but would like something to sort of fill out the bottom end. They start rolling off considerably once you get down past 45-50Hz or so until the bass all but disappears at about 35Hz. The highs and mids sound very nice, though.

I know that musically, having a stand-alone sub isn't the best idea...ideally I should have some good, full range floor standing speakers, but they're a little out of my budget. I got these new for $75 on ebay (they usually go for $300ish, I think) and I got the receiver inexpensively as well, so I'm trying to stay cheap.

I use them primarily for music, and I listen to a range of classical, jazz, alternative, and classic rock. Generally nothing harder - not a hip hop/rap "in da club pumpin my tunes" kinda guy. I'll occasionally employ it for movies when I want that extra awesome effect. It'd be nice if I could fry the cheap logitech system that the hip hoppa over across the hall has too...

Anyway, with all of that said, what subwoofer would you guys recommend? I was looking at the Omni S8, which got great reviews here:
http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/mirage_omni_s8.htm
but the frequency response is only down to 27Hz. Would that be enough? It's in my price range too, which is nice. Also, my reciever has me a little confused...it has a single output labeled "subwoofer" which I believe lowpasses to 150Hz. Would I need a surround sound input to use it?

I know that was long, but if you made it here, I appreciate you reading.

Oh, yes, budget ~$200, less is good, Omni S8 is right in that range.

*Edit* I noticed that the Omni doesn't have speaker outputs, which would be really nice...if I could lowpass/highpass my sub and speakers at the same frequency that would be great given my interest in a balanced frequency response.

 

[XxATOLxX]

Hi,

I think you should also consider Onix Audio's X-Sub. Its a little over 200 including shipping. I'm considering also getting one of these sometime next month to add to my stereo setup.

http://www.av123.com/products_produc...s&product=12.1

 

[PeeeMeS]

I'm not a big sub-woofer buff...

But I do have the Omni S8
It's got good enough Bass for you to forget that's it's a small little sub, and yet it's small enough to use portably.

I think the best value would be buying the 12'' subwoofer drivers with the best sound quality you can find for 190$ and building an enclosure for it with the rest of the $.


Size is the Omni's huge benefit; it screams "Use me as a portable"
I've already started doing the preparations to using it portably:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=164799


So I think one of the bonuses of Omni S8 is the portability factor. If you ever want to use your sub as a portable bass unit to aid your headphones you'll be set

 

[warpdriver]

I have the S8 and it's a great little sub. My measured room response has it dropping off quickly at 30Hz, so 27Hz is a bit optimistic in a typical room.

But it sounds very musical, much more so than any other sub in its price range.

When buying a sub, size matters. A small enclosure with a small driver is not going to get you deep bass unless you pull some serious tricks at great cost.

But fortunately, most music does not demand anything that goes lower than 30Hz unless you listen to pipe organs. So in your case the S8 should fill in the bottom octaves enough for music.

 

[johan851]

^ What about my canons in the 1812 overture?

Quote:

Hi, I think you should also consider Onix Audio's X-Sub. Its a little over 200 including shipping. I'm considering also getting one of these sometime next month to add to my stereo setup. http://www.av123.com/products_produc...product=12 .1

I'll be honest - I don't like the look of that sub. Frequency response is only to 29Hz, it's downward firing...the design just looks a little sloppy. Feel free to correct me though, I'm open to suggestion.

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johan851 ^ What about my canons in the 1812 overture?

You'll have to pony up more cash then.

Buying a $200 sub is like shopping for headphones around $10. The more interesting stuff doesn't happen until you get to $400+

Note: Getting good bass is all about placement, in a small room, you'll end up with a roller coaster frequency reponse curve typically. So in a way, having a sub is better for achieving good results than two floorstanding speakers because you have more options for placement.

 

[xluben]

I've been eyeing up this sub:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/pr...00%20Subwoofer

Specs down to 23Hz! and it's only $165 shipped!

It seems like a GREAT deal to me. I am amazed how a 10" sub can go that deep.

But if you stretch your budget you could get this one:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/pr...00%20Subwoofer

It is about $275 shipped and has a frequency response down to 21Hz.

But they are both downward firing, and it seems you have something against that design. And I don't know how accurate those FR numbers are, I think they're just manufacturer specs.

My sub is a cheap 200 watt, 12" made by RCA and it doesn't have much response below 40Hz. I listen to Rap/Rock and I'm pretty sure I'm not missing much info in the low end (but it's very loose), but if you like classical it may extend deeper. My Dayton BR-1's actually go down to 43Hz, which is almost as low as my sub, but I like a little extra thump in my music, so I still use the sub. I guess my point is, I wouldn't worry too much about getting down to 20Hz if you're only spending $200 on a sub.

 

[johan851]

Quote:

Buying a $200 sub is like shopping for headphones around $10. The more interesting stuff doesn't happen until you get to $400+

So, in your opinion, is a sub at this price range even worth buying? I'm all about bang for the buck, and I definitely recognize that in a lot of areas you need to make a significant investment if you want decent returns. I wouldn't shop for headphones in the $10 range. Would a bigger sub be worth saving longer for?

xluben - have you found any reviews on those subs you're mentioning? I'm having a little trouble finding any on google...

 

[ooheadsoo]

This is worth building: http://www.gr-research.com/drivers/sub_pr.htm

It will bust your budget just a smidge, but this is pretty top notch sound.

 

[familyman]

http://www.reliableaudiovideo.com/VE...8912C2976.aspx


















OH 200, i though he said 11,999! silly me.

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johan851 So, in your opinion, is a sub at this price range even worth buying? I'm all about bang for the buck, and I definitely recognize that in a lot of areas you need to make a significant investment if you want decent returns. I wouldn't shop for headphones in the $10 range. Would a bigger sub be worth saving longer for?

It's all dependent on the application.

A general answer yes, it's worth buying, just like a KSC75 is worth buying, but true extension (anything below 30Hz), and deep clean bass is going to cost more...a lot more. But in a small room, the S8 will definitely "fill in" the bass around 30 to 50Hz for your application, but if you want anything below 25Hz, then you'll pay, a lot more. If you want to watch movies in a typical basement or living room, I'd recommend moving up to a $400 class sub.

The S8 is one of the better small subs around, it's tight, and clean.

Again keep in mind you can have a $2000 sub and it will sound awful if you place it in the wrong spot. Standing waves can make the best sub boomy sounding.

If you want something that will grow with you, moving up to a Mirage S12 is highly worhwhile, that will produce bass down to 22 Hz with authority, and can be the foundation of a kick ass HT system (both in volume, deepness, and tight clean bass)

 

[johan851]

Quote:

This is worth building: http://www.gr-research.com/drivers/sub_pr.htm It will bust your budget just a smidge, but this is pretty top notch sound.

I'd be up for building a sub, but not while I'm here at college. I don't have the tools, workspace, or time to really make something like that. If I was at home in my garage, it would probably be a different matter...

Quote:

If you want something that will grow with you, moving up to a Mirage S12 is highly worhwhile, that will produce bass down to 22 Hz with authority, and can be the foundation of a kick ass HT system (both in volume, deepness, and tight clean bass)

Is the S12 just as musical as the S8? And forgive my lack of knowledge regarding these things, but is it true that a smaller sub is going to be more agile when it comes to music reproduction?

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by johan851 Is the S12 just as musical as the S8? And forgive my lack of knowledge regarding these things, but is it true that a smaller sub is going to be more agile when it comes to music reproduction?

If anything, if you ask it to produce bass in the low 30Hz range, it will sound more musical because it's distorting less, and working better within its performance parameters. The Group Delay of the sub is very good, meaning it's going to sound "agile"

The S12 sounds great, very musical, but however, since it puts out deeper bass, it may aggravate even more acoustical problems with your room.

 

[darkless]

I've considered getting an SVS PB10-ISD:
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10isd.cfm

Anyone who've tried that one, or any of the SVS subs in particular? I know it's been receiving a LOT of good press in various Scandinavian speaker/AV forums.

 

[johan851]

Quote:

If anything, if you ask it to produce bass in the low 30Hz range, it will sound more musical because it's distorting less, and working better within its performance parameters. The Group Delay of the sub is very good, meaning it's going to sound "agile"

Ok, that makes a lot of sense. I was talking with a friend about this today also, and he said pretty much the same thing. I thought that maybe a larger cone would be harder to move and thus slower, or something...but that's really not the case. Just air movement. Sweet.
Quote:

The S12 sounds great, very musical, but however, since it puts out deeper bass, it may aggravate even more acoustical problems with your room.

Meaning placement is of higher concern? Or do you mean that I'm more likely to hit resonant frequencies of objects in my room and make more rattling?

The way it's looking now it makes sense to save up a little and pick up the S12. No sense in getting the S8 and then wanting more later, right?