Help me choose a used turntable.

[RockinCannoisseur]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pltinum /img/forum/go_quote.gif UPDATE! I went to get the TT's. He was even willing to let them go for free and I could pay him if they worked (after new needle/cartridge).. Thought that was TOO nice. So just paid him 10. First I went to his house with the train. It was only 1km walk. He suggested I should just take one because I was by foot, but I said no no! I can carry that, I am strong! But it was so heavy!! It took me 30min to get to the station and I couldn't feel my arms. (I missed my train, because of this and because my previous train had 30min delay!) Then I had to switch trains at another stop, got on the wright platform. They announced a change of tracks for my train. I got onto that platform, then they said it was on the other platform again. Can't they be considered and think about my arms! At least there was a nice guy at my final stop who was willing to carry it a bit with me. At least I got em now! Now I'm gonna order all the rest. (missed half of a lesson, because of my error and! more importantly! stupid train traffic!)

wow you had an interesting adventure no? good luck with the tt. im curious to hear how it sounds when u get it set up.

cheers

 

[19lexicon78]

memepool

can you tell the difference between an emt 930/927 and a lenco.
somehow i've always wanted a lenco, but it needs all those extra parts. i'm lazy to build one.
i have an emt 950, the lenco as an idler should have a different sound.
i like the neutral sound of a dd. for jazz and rock i need some extra punch. idler would be ideal, don't have the money for a 930 or 927 at the moment. the lenco would be nice for in between.

also want to know: thorens 125 mk2 or upgraded lenco?

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19lexicon78 /img/forum/go_quote.gif memepool can you tell the difference between an emt 930/927 and a lenco. somehow i've always wanted a lenco, but it needs all those extra parts. i'm lazy to build one. i have an emt 950, the lenco as an idler should have a different sound. i like the neutral sound of a dd. for jazz and rock i need some extra punch. idler would be ideal, don't have the money for a 930 or 927 at the moment. the lenco would be nice for in between. also want to know: thorens 125 mk2 or upgraded lenco?

I don't think its easy to say how one highly upgraded vintage turntable sounds better than another. The highest quality motors and bearings in new condition will generally provide the most benefits. Idler wheel condition is also very important. Heavy platter Lencos for example taken to the highest extreme could potentially sound as good as anything available. They are so popular that top plates, better platter bearings, and probably better motors are available for anyone willing to spend the money and do the work. Tonearm selection is also unlimited if one rotates the table 90 degrees and mounts the tonearm on the plinth or mounts it on an aftermarket top plate.

 

[waterlogic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pltinum /img/forum/go_quote.gif Or should I take a gamble on a working Dual cs 508? It's pretty closeby and it's only 25 euro. Can't go that wrong with it?

If you go wrong - you can always use it for wash/cleaning your LPs at 25 - it is a bargain.

 

[19lexicon78]

ssportclay

i don't want to upgrade these TT's to the extreme. than i'll buy a 930 or better 927.
this table is for fun. no need for real critical listening, have the 950 for those moments.

which TT you get the most for less money, incl upgrades, before diminishing returns. which of the two tables: thorens or lenco is best.
the TT will be used for jazz and rock and the sound needs some punch.

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19lexicon78 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ssportclay i don't want to upgrade these TT's to the extreme. than i'll buy a 930 or better 927. this table is for fun. no need for real critical listening, have the 950 for those moments. which TT you get the most for less money, incl upgrades, before diminishing returns. which of the two tables: thorens or lenco is best. the TT will be used for jazz and rock and the sound needs some punch.

I have read reports where massively replinthed Lencos with very good tonearms easily bested any of the EMTs which resulted in some of them getting sold. My main table is a Technics 1200MK2 with an Origin Live Silver tonearm and power supply upgrades which has pretty good punch. Installing the tonearm was really easy. I like this table quite a bit better than my stock Thorens TD-160. Even though the EMTs are awesome, I have been skeptical that their tonearms are not near as good as what is available today. I suppose this is why the upgraded Lencos make such a strong showing.

 

[mark_h]

I would be surprised if any Lenco ever bettered an EMT 930, 948, 950?

Perhaps?

The thing with Lenco's is the huge amount of work involved in restoring one, building the plinth fitting the arm etc. etc.

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_h /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would be surprised if any Lenco ever bettered an EMT 930, 948, 950? Perhaps? The thing with Lenco's is the huge amount of work involved in restoring one, building the plinth fitting the arm etc. etc.

I would not suggest that Lencos are better than EMTs. The reason so many upgraded Lencos sound better than EMTs across the internet is in their execution. My thoughts why this is so is that extremely good tonearms are being installed on many of these heavy platter lencos which outclass the EMT tonearms resulting in some of these very fine EMT turntables getting sold. The Lencos are not better. They are just more versatile because I never heard of anyone installing an aftermarket tonearm on an EMT. EMT tonearms were very well made but are the the best sounding? Tonearms are much better now than they ever used to be.

 

[19lexicon78]

it won't surprise me, tone-arms of these days are the better ones. the table itself is another story. some people have an emt and use another tonearm + amp than the emt stock tonearm/amp.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19lexicon78 /img/forum/go_quote.gif memepool can you tell the difference between an emt 930/927 and a lenco. somehow i've always wanted a lenco, but it needs all those extra parts. i'm lazy to build one. i have an emt 950, the lenco as an idler should have a different sound. i like the neutral sound of a dd. for jazz and rock i need some extra punch. idler would be ideal, don't have the money for a 930 or 927 at the moment. the lenco would be nice for in between. also want to know: thorens 125 mk2 or upgraded lenco?

The EMT 928 is a close relative to the Thorens TD125 as I'm sure you're aware, but I've never heard this or any EMT in an actual Hi-Fi system only in a studio so hard to make other than vague comparisons really.

Comparing the TD125 to the Lenco L75 I'd say they sound quite different to each other though, and would think if you are coming from a DD like the 950 then the Lenco might be your first port of call.

I personally think it's a pretty impressive deck even in stock form with the Lenco arm if you fix it up. A Linn Ittok in good order or the Jelco 750 would be ideal arm upgrades and pretty much drop in replacements without any need to alter the top plate arrangement. The Thorens is more flexible in this regard having a conventional wooden armboard so it can accomodate pretty much any arm really. Both decks will benefit from a new plinth of course.

Both the Thorens and Lenco are very solidly built though so won't feel too flimsy for someone used to an EMT.

Soundwise both are also very smooth performers, the TD125 as mentioned further up is a lot more neutral sounding than the TD160, revealing it's broadcast heritage, but perhaps it lacks that absolute feeling of surefootedness in dynamics, especially in the bass that you have with an idler drive.

I suspect this could also have something to do not just with the drive mechanism but with the mass of platter. This would be easy to compare on the EMT's, where the mass on the earlier ones is all in the platter but on the 950 is in the chassis.

Since you can often get hold of Lenco's so cheaply in Europe I'd probably plumb for one of those anyway. You can always commission a new plinth from a local carpenter or furniture designer and still spend a fraction of what an idler driven EMT will cost you.

 

[19lexicon78]

thanks
nice to know the 125 sounds neutral, already have that.
the bass is what i'm looking for, bit of a punch. iow an idler..
how many kg should the plinth be, perhaps it doesn't matter?
which cart should you choose, using a linn or jelco?

what about the rb300 path?
is it usefull to spend extra $$
or a heavy plinth + linn/jelco is enough for that idler sound.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19lexicon78 /img/forum/go_quote.gif thanks nice to know the 125 sounds neutral, already have that. the bass is what i'm looking for, bit of a punch. iow an idler.. how many kg should the plinth be, perhaps it doesn't matter? which cart should you choose, using a linn or jelco? what about the rb300 path? is it usefull to spend extra $$ or a heavy plinth + linn/jelco is enough for that idler sound.

Personally I'm thinking something like a Denon DL-103 would be good. It produces great bass on my current Vestax / Rega project anyway.

If you go got the Jelco arm then it has a removable headshell so you can have a whole range for '78s / Mono etc.. That's where Lenco's really score.

All these things are endlessly debated here.

Lenco Heaven - Forum about Goldring Lenco Turntables

Welcome to LENCO HEAVEN

 

[19lexicon78]

that's a lot of reading.
jelco 12"
some plinths are expensive

 

[mark_h]

I have renovated quite a few lenco's, some featured on the above site and I can say resolutely that although they are fabulous, they do not come anywhere near the emt tables, after market arms and all. Mine had Naim Aro's installed, this is a favorite arm of mine but again the emt offerings are leagues ahead.

I would rather invest my money in a 1200 and some of the Sound-HiFi mods; You get so much deck for your money - even stock, the quartz lock is rock solid etc. etc.

 

[19lexicon78]

i'll keep the lenco as cheap as possible and in the future go for the 930