Help me choose a used turntable.

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_h /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have renovated quite a few lenco's, some featured on the above site and I can say resolutely that although they are fabulous, they do not come anywhere near the emt tables, after market arms and all. Mine had Naim Aro's installed, this is a favorite arm of mine but again the emt offerings are leagues ahead. I would rather invest my money in a 1200 and some of the Sound-HiFi mods; You get so much deck for your money - even stock, the quartz lock is rock solid etc. etc.

It is hard to compare the potential merits of different good decks because so much depends on the condition and what is actually done. The Technics 1200MK2 is the king when it comes to speed accuracy and stability and with the upgraded power supply, this deck is most likely quieter than most all of the rim drives. It resembles the precision of digital sources. I am skeptical that it has the dynamics and detail retrieval of the best rim drives but maybe with a better plinth and platter bearings it could possible equal them.

 

[mark_h]

Technics SL1200 SL1210 -* SL-1210 SL1200* SP-25 SP25 SP-15 modifications

A good source for upgrades, check the bearings toward the bottom of the page.

I agree absolutely with your comments about the idlers, they represent a reference but not as standard, you have to invest the time and effort.

 

[19lexicon78]

heard different models emt.
came to the conclusion
i prefer the 950 for it's detail. i think the DD's are best in this area. classical is perfect for a DD
the idlers for more punch/feel = jazz/rock

iow i want both...

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_h /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have renovated quite a few lenco's, some featured on the above site and I can say resolutely that although they are fabulous, they do not come anywhere near the emt tables, after market arms and all. Mine had Naim Aro's installed, this is a favorite arm of mine but again the emt offerings are leagues ahead. I would rather invest my money in a 1200 and some of the Sound-HiFi mods; You get so much deck for your money - even stock, the quartz lock is rock solid etc. etc.

Interesting enough, there is a report of a shootout between a Lenco 75 and an EMT 927 at the Audiogon analog forum posted 4/2. The Lenco 75 was rebuilt by Jean Nantais and came out a bit light weight by his standards. He claims that this was not one of his best efforts. Lenco 75s are heavily supported with high quality aftermarket parts and I am not sure I would dismiss a properly rebuilt Lenco as something less than any EMT. Properly rebuilding a Lenco to those standards would take a lot of work and money though. Most of the people reading this would probably be tickled pink with a Technics 1200 featuring a nice tonearm for far less effort.

 

[Pltinum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockinCannoisseur /img/forum/go_quote.gif wow you had an interesting adventure no? good luck with the tt. im curious to hear how it sounds when u get it set up. cheers

Well, the vinyl sounds great. However I only have old dusty records (most of them). The noise on those records really annoys! However when I put a new/clean/... one on I just love the sound, alot better then digital to my ears! Some of my records are in pretty bad condition however (school library sold some for 50cents a piece, I'm not checking condition for that price). Others are from the 60's, 70's and havent even left their sleeves yet.

Just made my DIY turntable mat today out of rubber and cork (although it's a bit thick). Hope that's an improvement as well. (hope it gets rid of some background noise)
So next DIY project is a cleaning machine, so I can enjoy all my records! And then my money is pretty much gone (or at least the money I want to spend atm.)
The background noise and hiss really bothers me, but I'm not judging too much untill I've cleaned my records thoroughly. (some have alot of noise due to the old recording I guess, you can't expect vinyl from the early 60's to sound great?)

This project says I'm not putting any money in a dac (even though my computer makes so much noise, I can't listen to it anymore), and putting all my future money in my vinyl. Next on the list will be a combo purchase of rega rb250, new cartridge (undecided, but got loads of time), and new phonopreamp (also undecided, maybe DIY). Don't know my budget for then, hope it will be enough.

edit: remember: this is my first time hearing vinyl (bit exaggerated, but it comes pretty close) . I'm from the digital era!

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pltinum /img/forum/go_quote.gif So next DIY project is a cleaning machine, so I can enjoy all my records! And then my money is pretty much gone (or at least the money I want to spend atm.) The background noise and hiss really bothers me, but I'm not judging too much untill I've cleaned my records thoroughly. (some have alot of noise due to the old recording I guess, you can't expect vinyl from the early 60's to sound great?)

The Knosti Disco Antitstat is good, and this KAB EV-1 RECORD CLEANER is the cheapest proper vacuum based RCM. Also check local record stores as some have a cleaning service with a professional machine.

In general record quality went down hill in the '70s because of the oil crisis then causing widespread recycling of vinyl and thinner pressings. The late 80s weren't great either as pressing quality definitely declined when the major record companies attempted to phase out vinyl with the rise of CD.
'50s and '60s pressings are generally very good on the whole if you can find records in good nick.

cleaning makes a huge difference but so does setting up you deck properly and tweaking the VTA etc which you'll accomplish with the mat you mentioned.

 

[Pltinum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Knosti Disco Antitstat is good, and this KAB EV-1 RECORD CLEANER is the cheapest proper vacuum based RCM. Also check local record stores as some have a cleaning service with a professional machine. In general record quality went down hill in the '70s because of the oil crisis then causing widespread recycling of vinyl and thinner pressings. The late 80s weren't great either as pressing quality definitely declined when the major record companies attempted to phase out vinyl with the rise of CD. '50s and '60s pressings are generally very good on the whole if you can find records in good nick. cleaning makes a huge difference but so does setting up you deck properly and tweaking the VTA etc which you'll accomplish with the mat you mentioned.

Thanks for the tip again. I saw one here for €95 (new), hope I can get one used though.. Don't know if DIY is that much worse though, the system seems pretty self-evident. It would however safe some hassle if I just bought a record cleaner.. And is a cleaner look..

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pltinum /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the tip again. I saw one here for €95 (new), hope I can get one used though.. Don't know if DIY is that much worse though, the system seems pretty self-evident. It would however safe some hassle if I just bought a record cleaner.. And is a cleaner look..

They don't often come up used for a whole lot less than new, in my experience, and the amount of wear and tear on the motor means you end up replacing all the parts anyway.

I bought a 2nd hand Nitty Gritty because it was a rare one which also does CDs and isn't made anymore. The original owner paid around 750UKP for it and I've probably spend more than the difference I saved by buying it 2nd hand on upgrades and replacements over the years since.

It's one of the best things I've ever bought though in terms of the difference it makes to the sound, much more so than an exotic moving coil cart for instance.

That KAB one uses the same Nitty Gritty pads etc with a domestic hoover so it's a good deal. Vacuuming makes all the difference really.

There is another one which I think is maybe a Dutch or German machine called an Okki Nokki, which might be worth looking out for as it used to be a lot cheaper than a Moth or any of the English or American ones...

If you have a lot of old 2nd hand records it's a worthwhile investment, maybe even before an arm upgrade. The old Lenco arm isn't all that bad at all if it's in good order. Have you checked the V-Blocks?

 

[Pltinum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool /img/forum/go_quote.gif They don't often come up used for a whole lot less than new, in my experience, and the amount of wear and tear on the motor means you end up replacing all the parts anyway. I bought a 2nd hand Nitty Gritty because it was a rare one which also does CDs and isn't made anymore. The original owner paid around 750UKP for it and I've probably spend more than the difference I saved by buying it 2nd hand on upgrades and replacements over the years since. It's one of the best things I've ever bought though in terms of the difference it makes to the sound, much more so than an exotic moving coil cart for instance. That KAB one uses the same Nitty Gritty pads etc with a domestic hoover so it's a good deal. Vacuuming makes all the difference really. There is another one which I think is maybe a Dutch or German machine called an Okki Nokki, which might be worth looking out for as it used to be a lot cheaper than a Moth or any of the English or American ones... If you have a lot of old 2nd hand records it's a worthwhile investment, maybe even before an arm upgrade. The old Lenco arm isn't all that bad at all if it's in good order. Have you checked the V-Blocks?

No I haven't, just thought I would upgrade the arm in a 'short' while..
Small question: Do better (read: more expensive) record cleaners, clean better? Or are they just more convenient. Because I just don't know why they would do a better job. If so DIYing would really save up some money for other upgrades/records/... Otherwise I will look at a decent record cleaner. Found the Okki Nokki at about €410 with shipping..

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pltinum /img/forum/go_quote.gif No I haven't, just thought I would upgrade the arm in a 'short' while.. Small question: Do better (read: more expensive) record cleaners, clean better? Or are they just more convenient. Because I just don't know why they would do a better job. If so DIYing would really save up some money for other upgrades/records/... Otherwise I will look at a decent record cleaner. Found the Okki Nokki at about €410 with shipping..

The basic ones upto around 1000 Euros like the Moth, Okki Nokki, VPI, Nitty Gritty etc.. all share a similar enough design in that they use a buffer pad of some sort to spread liquid over the surface of the record and then vacuum it off again which is what separates them from just hand cleaning.

Differences in cost are mainly down to convenience although here are also differences in design. The Nitty Gritty for instance only touches the label of the record which means you are less likely to cross contaminate sides you've already treated with dirt from the platter. On the downside though you can't exert any force on the record to scrub it which is often necessary, in the way you can with the other designs.

An other major difference between machines at this level and the more expensive pro machines like the Keith Monks or Loricraft, is how noisy they are and how long you can leave the motor running before it overheats.

Also the design of these pro machines is significantly different using a fine thread to deep clean the grooves rather than relying on the fibres of a brush to penetrate the to the bottom.

€410 is a lot more expensive than the Okki Nokki used to be. The Kab KV-1 is the best value by a long shot then.

 

[Pltinum]

I meant the vacuum designs. Probably just going to buy the kab then..