[nibiyabi]

Let him spend whatever he wants -- if you can afford to shoot for the stars, why take the more expensive gradual upgrade path?

 

[ericj]

Oh, he can do whatever he wants. And he'll find himself on the narrow edge of diminishing returns.

 

[uraflit]

i am a believer of the "if you think you need higher-end, get it first" idea.

no use in getting lower end gear if you have an inkling that you may upgrade later. some people are also greatly affected by placebo effect too...

 

[ericj]

Perhaps more importantly, I question the sanity of anyone who would drop $1500 on a pair of headphones without first listening to them.

Or even $300. Frankly, diminishing returns start at about $150 and show in spades by $300.

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif Perhaps more importantly, I question the sanity of anyone who would drop $1500 on a pair of headphones without first listening to them. Or even $300. Frankly, diminishing returns start at about $150 and show in spades by $300.

There are so so so so many people here who disagree with this. Where moral consensus has no value, we're all more than entitled to our own opinions. To quote a wise man, "Everything in audio is subtle and not worth it." The subtleties are not worth it unless they are worth it. It's really that simple.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superpredator /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are so so so so many people here who disagree with this.

That's just because you're used to paying too much for sennheisers.

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's just because you're used to paying too much for sennheisers.

Me specifically? Or "you're" as in anyone who disagrees with your thoughts on diminishing returns?

Not sure if you've noticed, but I don't own a single Sennheiser anymore (it wasn't really my flavor). I'm also pretty sure I didn't disclose to you what I paid for the ones I did own.

I will freely admit that I paid a relatively substantial sum for the W2002, probably more than I spent in total on all the Sennheisers I've owned. If you really want to insist that I'm not getting a decent return on my investment, I'm just going to say okay. Next time you're in my brain analyzing what I hear and what I value, please take a minute to say hi.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superpredator /img/forum/go_quote.gif Me specifically? Or "you're" as in anyone who disagrees with your thoughts on diminishing returns?

People in general. I wonder if anyone truly believes that an HD650 sounds an entire $100 better than a K601, for example.

Do my DT-770's sound 10 times better than KSC75's?

 

[nibiyabi]

That's the nature of diminishing returns. It exists everywhere. Would I pay $500 for a headphone that was twice as good as a $150 headphone? Definitely. It would probably be the best deal in audio, despite the fact that the $150 gives more "bang for the buck". The $500 headphone would beat the curve so astoundingly that it would probably have to be on par with headphones twice its price. Is a Bugatti Veyron 16.4 really one-hundred times better than a Honda Civic? No. Is a Kobe steak really five times better than high-grade US beef? Hmm, bad example. Some would probably say so.

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif People in general. I wonder if anyone truly believes that an HD650 sounds an entire $100 better than a K601, for example. Do my DT-770's sound 10 times better than KSC75's?

These can be interesting quandaries to ponder for one to two minutes, but then it gets pretty boring. If you'd care to go at it, please define the term "better" in terms of valued listening enjoyment. If you'd like to apply your definition to anyone (and everyone) other than yourself, you're going to have to take their perspectives into account. To keep things simple, I'm looking for the "better" in audio as seen by audio hobbyists and audiophiles. Ready? Set? Go.

Also, thanks for the conversation. This sure beats work.

 

[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nibiyabi /img/forum/go_quote.gif The $500 headphone would beat the curve so astoundingly that it would probably have to be on par with headphones twice its price. Is a Bugatti Veyron 16.4 really one-hundred times better than a Honda Civic? No. Is a Kobe steak really five times better than high-grade US beef? Hmm, bad example. Some would probably say so.

I have something like 20 different pairs of headphones, most of them ranging from pretty good to excellent in one way or another. The most expensive cost $130 including shipping from germany and a few beers for an operative in berlin who was instrumental in their acquisition.

For me a $500 headphone had better be a religious experience that ruins me for other headphones.

A $1500 headphone better make me believe that the female cellist is winking at me.

 

[mulveling]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif Or even $300. Frankly, diminishing returns start at about $150 and show in spades by $300.

In your opinoon

To the op, the JVC DX1000 is my favorite of the closed headphones that are less expesive and more readily available than the L3000. It also has a sound signature that seems like it would suit you. Sort of like a baby L3000, but with a slightly more distant presentation. It's a very good value at around $750 shipped.

 

[mulveling]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have something like 20 different pairs of headphones, most of them ranging from pretty good to excellent in one way or another. The most expensive cost $130 including shipping from germany and a few beers for an operative in berlin who was instrumental in their acquisition. For me a $500 headphone had better be a religious experience that ruins me for other headphones. A $1500 headphone better make me believe that the female cellist is winking at me.

So I'm getting the impression that you haven't even heard $500 headphones, much less $1500 headphones...and you're trying to argue about their value??? Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about...

 

[ericj]

Dunno. How much did DT-880's cost in 1982?

So ya got me. I'm a hard-boiled cynic and general cheap person.

Tell me which $500 headphones i should audition. I presume that they should leave any of my beyers sounding truly shabby.

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericj /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tell me which $500 headphones i should audition. I presume that they should leave any of my beyers sounding truly shabby.

This doesn't have to be the case at all. I think, for instance, that the KSC75 sounds fairly similar to the HF-1, and that it is highly listenable in its own right. But it is certainly not as refined as even the relatively unrefined HF-1. I don't think they have to be viewed in light of each other to be appreciated. The HF-1's subjective superiority makes the KSC75 no more a steaming pile than the KSC75's fantastic value turns the HF-1 into a case study for diminishing returns.