[RickG]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vertigo-1 I hope that's just a list and not the order they consider the headphones to fall into from best to worst, because yeaaaah...uh huh...I'll bet the HD-495s and the DT-250-80s are better than the CD3000... And how in the world could the Stax Omegas not fall in there when the Orpheus is in there, along with HD-495s of all headphones?

Hi Vert. The following is a direct quote from the HeadRoom site:

"You’re probably wondering what the “top ten” headphones used in our reference headphone composite were. As chosen by the HeadRoom staff for the purposes of our measurements, they were: the Sennheiser Orpheus, HD600, HD580, and HD495; the Beyer DT250-80 and the DT831's AKG K1000 and K501; the Grado RS1; the Sony CD3000; and the Stax Omega. You may notice that the list actually contains 11 headphones. That’s because we decided to measure 11 so that we could throw one out. We knew that we might run into a headphone that measured oddly even though it sounded amazing. Such a phenomenon is a very common topic of discussion in high-end audio; at times you find a product that is pleasing to listen to, but has far from ideal technical performance. In the list above we found that the Stax Omega was the odd man out. This headphone is a world class performer in terms of the positive experience reported by listeners, but when we measured it we found an unusual artifact in the bass: a very large upward spike and then a rapid drop. Though these headphones are frequently criticized for not having enough bass, we certainly don’t perceive them to sound like the curve looks. We decided not to use the Stax Omega data in the standard on grounds of it being out of the ordinary, even though they certainly belong on the list of best-of-the-best headphones."

 

[MacDEF]

LOL, there's yer answer

I think they just grouped them by manufacturer in the listing.

 

[mwb]

A place called Sound Emporium has Sennheiser HD600s new for $259 - does anybody have experience with this company?

 

[Audio-Me]

Sennheiser HD600 should be on top of any top ten headphone list.

mwb - I just bought one from them last week. Awesome service, they have an actually person walk you through the entire process. Using Paypal, I got my package in two days after I ordered it! =) *hint, complete the transaction(order/payment) before 12pm EST and you will get 2nd day delivery.
I paid $253 total through direct order by email. Insured shipping was only $4 because USPS(my favorite delivery service)priority mail was free.
Highly recommended. =)

 

[RickG]

I think MEIER-AUDIO sells the 600's for a little less. However, they wouldn't arrive as fast.

http://www.meier-audio.com/

 

[Neruda]

Quote:

Originally posted by Audio&Me Sennheiser HD600 are the best sounding headphones in the world!

yeah, maybe if you're a basshead!

*runs*

 

[RickG]

Quote:

Originally posted by Neruda yeah, maybe if you're a basshead! *runs*

LOL,.....awe shucks, Neruda.....play nice with your little friends...

 

[kwkarth]

Hahaha Neruda, you crack me up!!

Actually, I've been reading this thread and am somewhat puzzled as to why there has been almost no mention of AKG -K1000's or K501's?

Please don’t burden me with any more HD-600 rhetoric.

MWB,
Yes, the 600’s are nice cans and they sound better with the better amps available like the Headroom Max. If however you would like to consider a couple things that are anathema to HD-600 fans, then read on;

Option one:
The most sonically engaging setup that I’ve heard in head-fidom.
AKG K1000 + SAC K1000 amp + good external subwoofer w/x-over set @ around 45Hz. If set up properly, you’ll have the entire sonic spectrum at your feet and in your ears. You’ll have the extreme neutrality of the K1000 with their imaging plus the visceral impact of the external sub. When set up properly, the sub is barely noticeable to those around you and perfectly fills in below 50Hz.

Option Two:
The AKG-K501 powered by the Headroom Max or the SAC K1000 adapted for driving conventional cans. While you’ll be missing the lowest octave, (20Hz-40Hz) everything else will be in very lifelike perspective with gobs of imaging and detail. The 501’s actually do a better job at high spl’s than the 1000’s do. The 1000’s sound to me like they become a wee bit glassy/steely when you turn them up too loud.

Option Three:
Etymotic ER4-P w/ S adaptor or ER4-S powered by the Headroom Max or SAC K1000.

All three are very satisfying musical experiences. I listen to live acoustic orchestral music regularly and nothing else comes as close to portraying the live performance as these three aforementioned options.

The downside of option 1 is the fact that you have more sound audible to roommates than with the other options, but it is not at an objectionable level and it certainly would not wake baby up in the next room. The upside is that you could hear the baby stir if that’s what you wanted while you were listening.

Option two is a simpler setup with wider dynamic range, but missing 20Hz-40Hz. Very satisfying with just about everything except organ music or the bottom keys on a Bosendorfer grand.

Option three gives the whole spectrum, but not quite the imaging and it completely isolates you from the outside world. You will be profoundly deaf to the outside while wearing the Ety’s and this can be good or bad depending upon your needs at the time.

I’ve opted for all three so I have all the bases covered. You may choose to do the same.

These are my opinions, some of which can be backed up by objective measurements and some of which are purely subjective preferences.

Happy listening!!

 

[Audio-Me]

I'm no basstard!
*drops bomb*

 

[Neruda]

Quote:

Originally posted by RickG LOL,.....awe shucks, Neruda.....play nice with your little friends...

aw, do i HAVE to?

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by kwkarth The AKG-K501 powered by the Headroom Max or the SAC K1000 adapted for driving conventional cans. While you’ll be missing the lowest octave, (20Hz-40Hz)

kwkarth's suggestions are very good. I think most people would be in heaven with either of those systems.

But...I... just... can't... seem... to... stop... typing... this... clarification.... (OK I give up trying to resist

) <beatdeadhorse> while the the 501 are "missing" everything below 40Hz (as in, they cannot even produce it), they are also lacking in response from around 40 to around 80 compared to the other "hi-end" cans. So if you listen to music that has a lot of those frequencies, you may be disappointed.</beatdeadhorse> If you don't, then they are an excellent choice.

P.S. Neruda, before you jump on me here

notice how I was very clear in the above statement to state what is empirically true -- they are lacking "compared to other hi-end cans." This way, people can judge for themselves what they like.



Quote:

Originally posted by Neruda yeah, maybe if you're a basshead!

http://homepage.mac.com/macdef/What.gif

hehe... just wanted to use that cool smiley I found

 

[kwkarth]

MacDef!
Cmmon man, you're driving me nuts with the innacuracies here!!

I can hear 20Hz on my 501's quite easily. It's 12db down from 100Hz absolute. The FACTS prove that out. Go check the graphs yourself. No, actually, here, let me do it for you...

Now, take a look at the relative response to the top ten...

The 501's are only 3db down at 20Hz relative to the top ten average. Quit skewing the facts will ya!! If you don't straighten up, I'm gonna change your handle to MacDeaf!

Thanks,
kevin

 

[Neruda]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF http://homepage.mac.com/macdef/What.gif

sorry mac, it was just a joke

 

[MacDEF]

Neruda: I know you were joking -- like I said, I just wanted to use that icon I found

Kev:

LOL, you're right about me exaggerating -- guilty as charged. I'm feeling the need to compensate for your position, which I feel is just as tenous, graphs or no graphs.

First, so that you don't think I'm on drugs

, of COURSE you can *hear* something below 40Hz -- even my own graph showed that (the one from my own experiment on bass rolloff)!

Anyone who looks at my graph can see that they do indeed *produce* bass below 40Hz.



Now, if we want to talk about the reality of the K501, it's somewhere in between my exaggeration that they can't even produce 40Hz and your contention that they have only a slight roll off...

My graph shows how they *really* compare to other good headphones that actually have bass extension, in real-world conditions, properly driven:

At around 80Hz, all four are pretty comparable. However, at that point the roll-off of the 501 is a bit more severe than the others. At around 60Hz, the rolloff of the others stays pretty constant, while the 501's rolloff begins to accelerate. By they time you get to 40Hz, the other cans are down slightly, while the 501s are down dramatically. Etc. This is what happens in the real world. It also reflects my personal listening experiences -- you know, listening to music

As for the graphs you posted, it's pretty well accepted around here that while the HeadRoom graphs are good for showing the *general* shape of a headphone's FR, they are not very accurate for each individual frequency. Think about it -- the K501 graph shows a HUMP between 60 and 750 Hz! Anyone who has ever heard these things knows that isn't accurate. It also shows them to have a sizeable recession between 2k and 5k, and a drastic dip at around 8k. Do you really find those parts of the graph to be accurate? I sure don't. They sound pretty smooth in those regions to me.

And keep in mind something else (forgetting for a moment that the non-normalized graph isn't extremely accurate) -- as you pointed out, the "normalized" graph shows them down -3dB @ 50Hz and -5dB @ 20Hz relative to the "top ten" headphones. As I've pointed out before, ALL headphones roll off in the lower bass. Every single one. So that -3 or -5 dB rolloff isn't the actual rolloff, but the rolloff, compared to other headphones which *already* roll off. Even worse, the "normalized" graph is relative to a composite that includes the K501 themselves and the K1000, which cancels out 1/5 of the "relativeness." If you were to normalize the K501 to a graph of the other 8 headphones, all of which already roll off, but which have better low bass performance, the K501's "normalized" graph would look much worse.


Graphs aside, what I DO know is what I hear -- I've heard lots of the "top" headphones, and the K501 are worse in the low bass than most of them. I listen to organ, to piano, to some electronic stuff, to lots of music with low bass. I also know what it sounds like live. The K501, while doing a great job in the mids and highs, and even in the upper bass, simply don't make the low end sound like it should. While other "best" headphones roll off as well, none do it as severely as the K501. I mean it when I say that some low notes that are produce quite well -- at close to the loudness they should be at, with the body and control they should have -- by HD600s or Etys or V6 or some of the other good cans I've heard, are barely audible on the K501. And, again, doing tone sweeps on my varoius headphones, the roll-offs are easy to detect -- the K501s simply begins much higher.

Finally, reading over threads about and reviews of the K501, the majority of people who have listened to them -- and these are Head-Fi'ers with lots of experience, reviewers from magazines I trust, etc. -- agree that they are weak at the bottom.

Again (and this is the horse that is *really* dead

), none of the above is to say, or even imply, that they are bad headphones, or even "less good" than any other headphone on the whole. It is simply to say that people should be aware of their limitations (some might even say "limitation," singular). As Xander put it, the K501 are like listening to amazing bookshelf/compact speakers -- they don't produce the lowest notes, but they do everything else very well. People who buy compact speakers do so knowing they don't produce the low end. People buying headphones should know their real-world performance, so that they know what they're getting into. Lots of people wouldn't even notice the K501 rolloff (obviously, judging by how many people claim it doesn't exist

), and will be ecstatic with them.

 

[Vertigo-1]

That white spot on MacDEF's robot is starting to look like a beard from MacDEF getting tired and old from all these AKG discussions...