[Dexdexter]

Thanks for weighing in, USG.

OTOH, I think that if one is predisposed not to hear any changes, then chances are pretty good that one may not hear any changes.

Me, I fall in with the burn-in crowd, and detailed the changes I heard up until well past the 200 hour mark earlier here in the thread. So, for me anyway, the difference was fairly substantial.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dw6928 /img/forum/go_quote.gif how are you? when I heard your Heed at the meet you were barely at 48 hours of run in. Mine needed 200+ to really set itself. I was not crazy about the Heed at the stage when you sold your's. Whether I got used to it or its components bedded with each other ( as is indicated by the manufacturer) it is an unending debate. One thing I can say with certainty: the Heed I listen to now and the Heed I had at 48 hours are discernibly different.

Hi dw

I want you to know I am not arguing with you and respect you as an intelligent knowledgeable HeadFier. Just trying to work my way through this issue in a logical manner.

So IMHO (and that's all it is)..... I'm going to say the same thing in a few different ways..... YMMV and I'm sure it will...

I did not sell my Heed after 48hrs. By the time I sold it, it probably had logged more than the required burn in time. The entire time it sounded the same, relative to my other 2 amps, which were able to act as a controls, enabling me to gauge whether or not any changes were occurring. At no time was I able to say that the sound signature of the Heed had changed, relative to the other 2 amps, than when I first turned it on.

It is important to note that I had not one, but two different amps to compare the Heed to, and not just my acoustic memory. Each time I listened I was able to judge the Heed's sound relative to the 2 other amps. I was able to listen for, bass, treble, soundstage, transparency and sound accuracy changes by having 2 other amps to compare it to, rather than base it on an acoustic memory.

You say, "the Heed I listen to now and the Heed I had at 48hours are discernibly different." But how many hours do you have on your Heed now? Maybe up wards of 3 or 4 thousand? How can you possibly remember accurately, what it sounded like at 48hrs.? This type of judgment call seems more to be in the psycho-acoustic realm than scientific.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall reading anywhere in this thread, that someone's Heed had less treble or base (when it was new) than their Hornet (for instance) and after many hours of burn in, now had more bass and treble than that very same Hornet.

I was able to compare the sound of the Heed, on a daily basis, with 2 other substantial amps that were acting as controls, over a 10 day, 24/7, burn in and noticed no significant changes in the sound signature of the Heed.

Now one could say that 10 days is not enough time, but surely in 240hrs you should hear something going on. Unless, perhaps, the Heed I received had already been burned in.

USG

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexdexter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for weighing in, USG. OTOH, I think that if one is predisposed not to hear any changes, then chances are pretty good that one may not hear any changes. Me, I fall in with the burn-in crowd, and detailed the changes I heard up until well past the 200 hour mark earlier here in the thread. So, for me anyway, the difference was fairly substantial.

Hi Dex

I think that same predisposition can work both ways and one could hear changes just because they are expecting them.....

Regarding the burn in crowd...

I have heard tubes burn in.

I have heard headphones burn in.

I cannot say I've heard SS amps or DACS burn in with any certainty.

I cannot say I've heard cables or power cords burn in with any certainty.

YMMV and this is purely MHO

USG

 

[oqvist]

Interesting. Well I was quite sure the bass gotten tighter but then listening yesterday (no bass day I think lol for my ears) it sounded exactly to when new... But anyway if I can detect a difference so far now I for sure have over 100h on it it´s bass that is a bit tighter. For sure they don´t sound worse then when new. I am getting quite used to it now.

But yeah I was maybe dumb I should listen to my Pimeta more in between maybe easier to spot the real changes then

Otherwise I am quite open to the burn in issue after my Ultrasone Proline 750 experience lol.

 

[Hi-Finthen]

Burn-in???

I'll just add this fact, I read Todd TVJ has done burn - in to the Meier Corda Opera for 10 days (24/7), before sending it out on tour for review by a few fellow Head-Fiers . Could just be a bench check,; Yeh, I'm sure that's why........ Hmmmm

 

[Morph201]

.... and the plot thickens..... Hmmmmmmmmm

 

[Dexdexter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think that same predisposition can work both ways and one could hear changes just because they are expecting them..... Regarding the burn in crowd... I have heard tubes burn in. I have heard headphones burn in. I cannot say I've heard SS amps or DACS burn in with any certainty. I cannot say I've heard cables or power cords burn in with any certainty. YMMV and this is purely MHO

Heh-heh, we're certainly at the "agree to disagree" juncture regarding our experiences!

My own experiences of burn-in extends (to varying degrees) to:

Headphones, phono cartridges, loudspeakers, SS monoblock power amps, SS phono stage, (2x) SS headphone amps, tube-output CD player (400 hours!), and SS preamplifier.

Of these, my Njoe Tjoeb CD player, Ultrasone PROlines, and the CanAmp have demonstrated the largest differences in refinement.

 

[leener]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi dw I was able to compare the sound of the Heed, on a daily basis, with 2 other substantial amps that were acting as controls, over a 10 day, 24/7, burn in and noticed no significant changes in the sound signature of the Heed. USG

i think it is very personal for upstateguy , and it is psychological too.
I remember once at the one famous painter’s exhibition everyone admired one painting, everyone said with admiration “cloud!”. I looked at it, I saw cloud, good work, realistic but nothing as I saw it to be so much excited about.

I visited this exhibitiion few more times, expected nothing anymore and even almost forgot about this “cloud”thing, when once I came to this painting and suddenly I saw…cloud !!! I was amazed - it was the same painting which I saw quite a few times already but now I did not see a painting but I saw cloud wich was not on the painting but lived its own life right here in this exhibition hall.

I can’t explain this… it’s just what I saw and I’ll never forget it, I just can’t. And it was not imagination – I did not force myself to see that cloud, I just did not care…
May be what upstateguy tells is a thing of this order. At least I believe him but I also believe to what I heard before burning in CanAmp and what I hear now (just like he believes himself about tube amps’,cans’ etc burning in…).

"... Unless, perhaps, the Heed I received had already been burned in..."

this could be a pretty plausible explanation too.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexdexter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Heh-heh, we're certainly at the "agree to disagree" juncture regarding our experiences! My own experiences of burn-in extends (to varying degrees) to: Headphones, phono cartridges, loudspeakers, SS monoblock power amps, SS phono stage, (2x) SS headphone amps, tube-output CD player (400 hours!), and SS preamplifier. Of these, my Njoe Tjoeb CD player, Ultrasone PROlines, and the CanAmp have demonstrated the largest differences in refinement.

Gee, I don't think we're anywhere near an agree to disagree juncture. I would have to agree with you Dex, regarding any component with moving parts... speakers, headphones, phono cartridges or with tubes.

All I'm saying is that in my limited experience, I've not heard any significant change in sound signature in the SS amps I've attempted to burn in.

I'm also suggesting that "acoustic memory" is no substitute for a direct comparison with a known sound. Think tuning fork and piano.

I am also suggesting that not only do our ears not hear the same all the time but that there is a very strong psycho-acoustic factor involved in the perception of hearing when a control is not present.

I suppose another way to do it would be to record the same 60 seconds of a test track of music directly from an amp's analog output onto your HD every day and compare them to each other when the burn in is over. If an audible change in sound signature occurs, it will be documented.

You know, Dex, come to think of it, that's actually not such a bad idea and seems relatively easy to do. All you need is a patch cable from the amp to your computer and a way of setting the amp volume and the recording volume the same each time.

humm, "A Burn In Challenge"....

USG

 

[procreate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif All I'm saying is that in my limited experience, I've not heard any significant change in sound signature in the SS amps I've attempted to burn in.

Even though you haven't experienced it yet, how do you feel about capacitors and burn-in? They surely shouldn't be moving.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by procreate /img/forum/go_quote.gif Even though you haven't experienced it yet, how do you feel about capacitors and burn-in? They surely shouldn't be moving.

Hi pro

The only thing I can comment on is that the capacitor in my Hornet was suppose to change it's sound signature when it burned in. It never changed.

The same thing occurred with my Portaphile Maxxed with blackgates. The sound signature was suppose to change with burn in. I burned it in but it never changed either.

The Heed burned in for around 240hrs before I sold it. The sound signature never changed.

I don't know what capacitors are in my GS-1 because I haven't opened it yet, but the sound signature hasn't changed in the 3 weeks I've had it.

I know they are supposed to burn in and change the sound signature. I just haven't heard it yet, that's all.

USG

 

[procreate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif The only thing I can comment on is that the capacitor in my Hornet was suppose to change it's sound signature when it burned in. It never changed.

Then the question might be: Are your ears sensitive to the change? Please bear in mind I'm not dissing you, but you have sufficient personal experience to have come to this conclusion and once again prove that people can only listen with their own ears!

Of course, there's pros and cons to this.

 

[Dexdexter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Gee, I don't think we're anywhere near an agree to disagree juncture. I would have to agree with you Dex, regarding any component with moving parts... speakers, headphones, phono cartridges or with tubes.

Hmmm, help me out...what are the moving parts in tubes vs. their SS counterparts?

 

[procreate]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dexdexter /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmmm, help me out...what are the moving parts in tubes vs. their SS counterparts?

You know the grid? It has little holes in it for the electrons to pass through. Now, if it decides that it's going to pass an electron through, it moves a tiny bit so it passes cleanly through the hole.

;^)

 

[Morph201]

It's 10:15am (EST), no posts yet.... Is everyone okay????

Maybe they're too busy bedding their amps!

[Kiddin]