Thanks for detail explanation.
All our sense have the same mechanism.
Reality is only one.
Perception is unique for each.
HEDD Announces HEDDphone With AMT Technology
- Thread starter bugstone
- Start date
-
- Tags
- hedd hedd audio heddphone
All our sense have the same mechanism.
Reality is only one.
Perception is unique for each.
Anyone run these (either with 1/4" headphone plug or XLR from the speaker taps) from a vintage speaker amp?
silversurfer616
1000+ Head-Fier
I use an old Rotel speaker amp which has the necessary power but does sound flat compared to my GSX-mini and WA22.
silversurfer616
1000+ Head-Fier
Rotel RA714, that’s the one I have. Drives it well but without depth in the soundstage.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2013
- Posts
- 16,616
- Likes
- 12,424
That's an old beast, but built like a tank. It's quite interesting how it looks like versus Rotel's Michi line, how much more minimalist audio is now. Stuff from a totally different planet
LCMusicLover
Headphoneus Supremus
Headphone out impedance? IIRC frequently pretty high on some ‘older’ equipment. Just a guess, obviously.That's an old beast, but built like a tank. It's quite interesting how it looks like versus Rotel's Michi line, how much more minimalist audio is now. Stuff from a totally different planet
Must say that listening to HEDDphone via the SPL Phonitor 2 fed by a Denafrips Ares II R-2R DAC via XLR balanced interconnects is absolutely fantastic. Received the Ares II today, so not sure how much more it has to give once fully opened up.
However, listening to L'Incroyable Vie Des Choses by Jacques via TIDAL HiFi is quite magical, with its massive soundstage and instrument separation.
However, listening to L'Incroyable Vie Des Choses by Jacques via TIDAL HiFi is quite magical, with its massive soundstage and instrument separation.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2013
- Posts
- 16,616
- Likes
- 12,424
Could be the case, but it's easy to measure and find out fortunately.
Superpong
Head-Fier
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2007
- Posts
- 89
- Likes
- 34
Hi need some advice here
1) The 4-pin balanced cable for Audeze can be used with Heddphone, but need to pharse conversion due to different pins layout? Am I correct?
2) My amp is Cavalli Liquid Carbon. Is its power enough to drive Heddphone or should I look for another amp with more power?
1) The 4-pin balanced cable for Audeze can be used with Heddphone, but need to pharse conversion due to different pins layout? Am I correct?
2) My amp is Cavalli Liquid Carbon. Is its power enough to drive Heddphone or should I look for another amp with more power?
Last edited:
1. No, I am using a cable for audeze LCD series and it works just fine.
2. You amp is 2.8w into 50ohms using balanced. I am using Hugo 2 to power the heddphone and it sounds perfect, power isn't an issue for the Hugo 2 from my experience. Your amp is about the same.
LCMusicLover
Headphoneus Supremus
What @Najam posted is accurate. While the polarity is reversed, it is reversed on both sides. And I've never heard any negative effects going from the stock cable to the cables I use with my ZMF Auteur. So if there's an issue, my ears can't hear it.
Also, I have an Drop Liquid Carbon and it drives my Heddphone quite well (as does my Hugo 2, same as @Najam).
HEDDphone critical review
Critical because there is so much to criticize on the HEDDphone.
The thing is so hyped here and so disappointing at my place.
And no, my specimen is not broken, both sides left and right measure exactly the same.
Remark:
I tried to like the HEDDphone, but finally failed to.
There are flawed headphones in my collection that I do like for something they can do very good.
This part is missing with the HEDDphone.
Built:
The build quality is a bad joke, even if you don't take the price of €1600 into consideration.
EVERY joint is loose and squeaks when moved, even sometimes when it's already on your head.
During the few days of use the clicks for the headband length adjust wore out, got weaker and weaker. One side is already going down full length by it's own weight now.
Probably a mechanism made from the wrong kind of plastic.
Sennheiser does use plastic too for the headband adjust clicks, but their's last forever!
Fit, Ergonomics:
The headbands and gimbal geometry is simply wrong constructed, nowhere there is enough travel and play to fit the HEDDphone to "nonstandard" heads.
This is for the longer Version 2 headband.
The lower parts of the gimbal, which serves cosmetic purpose only, comes in the way of the cable connectors, so that the earpads might not come flat on your head.
Sound:
Here's where the real problems start.
Resonating grid:
The outside cover grids are extremely resonating, you can hear that isolated when you stroke across them with your finger nail.
It's like strings mounted on an instrument's body, not just sound coupling through air, very annoying.
This resonance is clearly destroying the sound.
Imagine a one second long tonal vibration accompanying every sound.
Damping the grids by slightly putting fingers on it (at the edge outside the back opening, to avoid reflections) makes a night and day difference in the sound.
A big layer of "fog" is removed.
Sound inconsistency:
The sound is extraordinary position dependent.
Every tiny shift up, down, forward or back changes the sound colors.
If placed too high or front on the head the sound becomes more dull and nasal.
Which is especially bad, because the headband adjustment range is too small, even with the longer version headband I have.
Not usable for studio monitoring:
There's no reproducible sound one can get accommodated to, you would not know what to rely on when mixing.
Each time you place the HEDDphone on your head it sounds different.
My guess is, the sound tuning by using different sized "folds" in the A.M.T. driver causes an uneven soundfield inside the cup.
My 2nd guess, there are too many resonating chambers, reflections and diffractions inside these enormously big cups.
What, e.g., is the one and a half cm outside part of the cup, partly closed, good for - except for creating a sound resonance?
I question the construction in all this regard - I wouldn't if the result would be convincing.
Tonal balance:
Apart from this, sound character in general - independent from positional sound changes, with or without dampened grid:
There is a clearly audible midrange honk, instruments and vocals sound dull and hard at the same time.
The reason is a frequency response showing a resonance that causes a dip at 450 and a sharp peak at 730 Hz with a 5 dB jump in between.
Instrument warmth is dialed out, mid range hardness is boosted, and the transition is abrupt.
The treble sounds colored and dull too.
From 4 kHz up there is a constant up-and-down, additionally a 10 dB deep notch around 6 kHz reduces brilliance and transparency.
Damping the resonating grid makes a 2 dB difference for this notch BTW, but does not remove the problems.
In general the HEDDphone sounds like listening from an all back, last row, corner seat, in a concert hall.
If you now think, HEDDphone's dark character makes overly sharp recordings more bearable - no!
The midrange and treble irregularities cause those recordings to sound even more annoying.
With more balanced sounding 'phones a down-EQ of the treble helps on those recordings, but not with the HEDDphone.
The only positive I found:
The HEDDphone can sound more "punchy" with some contemporary pop, rock and EDM recordings.
Response to Equalizer:
Not good!
I tried to EQ out the obvious flaws but this did not work as well as it does with other 'phones, probably because the flaws' cause are acoustic resonances that don't go away with EQ.
Compared to, with a wide variety of different styles of music:
Pop, Rock, Jazz, Classic, EDM, Electro, "Audiophile",... contemporary and older.
Using different DAC's, amps and cabling, but those didn't make any difference.
Precide Ergo A.M.T:
The only other commercially available headphone with full range A.M.T. driver is the Precide Ergo A.M.T that comes for roughly €1100 list price.
Driven from a 3W amplifier and EQ'ed in the subs (it's a completely open construction that rolls off in the lower bass range, but can easily take lots of EQ there) simply eats the HEDDphone for breakfast.
In contrary to the HEDDphone the Ergo A.M.T.'s larger driver, constructed with different diaphragm material and principles, does what one would expect, delivers all the typical A.M.T. attributes in spades:
Clean and natural midrange, extreme transparency, brilliant but not offending treble, wide and deep soundstage, pinpoint instrument separation and a convincing amount of musicality.
Simply fun!
Sounds like listening from the best and most expensive seat in a concert hall - center, row 12, with a full and balanced perspective on the orchestra/band/artist.
STAX SR L-700:
Street price about €1600.
For some the, soundwise, best STAX available, needs a special high voltage amplifier for electrostatic headphones.
Owning both the more expensive SR-009 and SR-007 too I'd partly support that.
SR L-700 has modest requirements on the amp part, can be driven by anything that is built from STAX or 2nd party with ease.
The SR L-700 has the typical STAX midrange boost around 1.2 kHz that I dislike, in form of a smooth, acceptable coloration, and less sub-bass (rolloff below 40Hz).
Other than that it's simply great in every aspect, with the extra of the unbeatable electrostatic's definition.
The HEDDphone is no comparison, cannot compete.
Others:
I compared to several other headphones too, including Sennheiser HD-800S, HD-650, AUDEZE LCD-2rev2, HIFIMAN HE-4xx.
Going into detail would be too much here, but even the $160 HIFIMAN 4xx is preferable in my opinion.
Conclusion:
The HEDDphone feels like a prototype or a typical first try of a company that has not much experience with headphones, pointing in the direction what the way could be, but there are still some miles to go.
They should have beta tested with people that are more critical and more experienced.
Ergo A.M.T. shows what the Air Motion Transformer can do:
Combining advantages from the three more common principles: dynamic, planar magnetic, electrostatic.
The HEDDphones main flaw is the tonality, that might work with some recordings, but as "studio monitor" is a complete fail.
I tried to EQ out the obvious flaws but this did not work very well.
The measured frequency response (even not too nice) looks better than the thing sounds.
This is a really bad sign.
Built quality and ergonomics is the 2nd big flaw.
Strangeness:
In the title: Shelby Lynne, Just A Little Lovin', (TIDAL) at position 3:03 the vocal recording distorts, audible on EVERY system and headphones I own.
NOT on the HEDDphone.
No idea why this can be.
Final word:
Listening with headphones is very personal.
What I've written here this is my experience, which I have a lot, privately and as a recording engineer.
Your mileage may vary, and for sure it does.
Critical because there is so much to criticize on the HEDDphone.
The thing is so hyped here and so disappointing at my place.
And no, my specimen is not broken, both sides left and right measure exactly the same.
Remark:
I tried to like the HEDDphone, but finally failed to.
There are flawed headphones in my collection that I do like for something they can do very good.
This part is missing with the HEDDphone.
Built:
The build quality is a bad joke, even if you don't take the price of €1600 into consideration.
EVERY joint is loose and squeaks when moved, even sometimes when it's already on your head.
During the few days of use the clicks for the headband length adjust wore out, got weaker and weaker. One side is already going down full length by it's own weight now.
Probably a mechanism made from the wrong kind of plastic.
Sennheiser does use plastic too for the headband adjust clicks, but their's last forever!
Fit, Ergonomics:
The headbands and gimbal geometry is simply wrong constructed, nowhere there is enough travel and play to fit the HEDDphone to "nonstandard" heads.
This is for the longer Version 2 headband.
The lower parts of the gimbal, which serves cosmetic purpose only, comes in the way of the cable connectors, so that the earpads might not come flat on your head.
Sound:
Here's where the real problems start.
Resonating grid:
The outside cover grids are extremely resonating, you can hear that isolated when you stroke across them with your finger nail.
It's like strings mounted on an instrument's body, not just sound coupling through air, very annoying.
This resonance is clearly destroying the sound.
Imagine a one second long tonal vibration accompanying every sound.
Damping the grids by slightly putting fingers on it (at the edge outside the back opening, to avoid reflections) makes a night and day difference in the sound.
A big layer of "fog" is removed.
Sound inconsistency:
The sound is extraordinary position dependent.
Every tiny shift up, down, forward or back changes the sound colors.
If placed too high or front on the head the sound becomes more dull and nasal.
Which is especially bad, because the headband adjustment range is too small, even with the longer version headband I have.
Not usable for studio monitoring:
There's no reproducible sound one can get accommodated to, you would not know what to rely on when mixing.
Each time you place the HEDDphone on your head it sounds different.
My guess is, the sound tuning by using different sized "folds" in the A.M.T. driver causes an uneven soundfield inside the cup.
My 2nd guess, there are too many resonating chambers, reflections and diffractions inside these enormously big cups.
What, e.g., is the one and a half cm outside part of the cup, partly closed, good for - except for creating a sound resonance?
I question the construction in all this regard - I wouldn't if the result would be convincing.
Tonal balance:
Apart from this, sound character in general - independent from positional sound changes, with or without dampened grid:
There is a clearly audible midrange honk, instruments and vocals sound dull and hard at the same time.
The reason is a frequency response showing a resonance that causes a dip at 450 and a sharp peak at 730 Hz with a 5 dB jump in between.
Instrument warmth is dialed out, mid range hardness is boosted, and the transition is abrupt.
The treble sounds colored and dull too.
From 4 kHz up there is a constant up-and-down, additionally a 10 dB deep notch around 6 kHz reduces brilliance and transparency.
Damping the resonating grid makes a 2 dB difference for this notch BTW, but does not remove the problems.
In general the HEDDphone sounds like listening from an all back, last row, corner seat, in a concert hall.
If you now think, HEDDphone's dark character makes overly sharp recordings more bearable - no!
The midrange and treble irregularities cause those recordings to sound even more annoying.
With more balanced sounding 'phones a down-EQ of the treble helps on those recordings, but not with the HEDDphone.
The only positive I found:
The HEDDphone can sound more "punchy" with some contemporary pop, rock and EDM recordings.
Response to Equalizer:
Not good!
I tried to EQ out the obvious flaws but this did not work as well as it does with other 'phones, probably because the flaws' cause are acoustic resonances that don't go away with EQ.
Compared to, with a wide variety of different styles of music:
Pop, Rock, Jazz, Classic, EDM, Electro, "Audiophile",... contemporary and older.
Using different DAC's, amps and cabling, but those didn't make any difference.
Precide Ergo A.M.T:
The only other commercially available headphone with full range A.M.T. driver is the Precide Ergo A.M.T that comes for roughly €1100 list price.
Driven from a 3W amplifier and EQ'ed in the subs (it's a completely open construction that rolls off in the lower bass range, but can easily take lots of EQ there) simply eats the HEDDphone for breakfast.
In contrary to the HEDDphone the Ergo A.M.T.'s larger driver, constructed with different diaphragm material and principles, does what one would expect, delivers all the typical A.M.T. attributes in spades:
Clean and natural midrange, extreme transparency, brilliant but not offending treble, wide and deep soundstage, pinpoint instrument separation and a convincing amount of musicality.
Simply fun!
Sounds like listening from the best and most expensive seat in a concert hall - center, row 12, with a full and balanced perspective on the orchestra/band/artist.
STAX SR L-700:
Street price about €1600.
For some the, soundwise, best STAX available, needs a special high voltage amplifier for electrostatic headphones.
Owning both the more expensive SR-009 and SR-007 too I'd partly support that.
SR L-700 has modest requirements on the amp part, can be driven by anything that is built from STAX or 2nd party with ease.
The SR L-700 has the typical STAX midrange boost around 1.2 kHz that I dislike, in form of a smooth, acceptable coloration, and less sub-bass (rolloff below 40Hz).
Other than that it's simply great in every aspect, with the extra of the unbeatable electrostatic's definition.
The HEDDphone is no comparison, cannot compete.
Others:
I compared to several other headphones too, including Sennheiser HD-800S, HD-650, AUDEZE LCD-2rev2, HIFIMAN HE-4xx.
Going into detail would be too much here, but even the $160 HIFIMAN 4xx is preferable in my opinion.
Conclusion:
The HEDDphone feels like a prototype or a typical first try of a company that has not much experience with headphones, pointing in the direction what the way could be, but there are still some miles to go.
They should have beta tested with people that are more critical and more experienced.
Ergo A.M.T. shows what the Air Motion Transformer can do:
Combining advantages from the three more common principles: dynamic, planar magnetic, electrostatic.
The HEDDphones main flaw is the tonality, that might work with some recordings, but as "studio monitor" is a complete fail.
I tried to EQ out the obvious flaws but this did not work very well.
The measured frequency response (even not too nice) looks better than the thing sounds.
This is a really bad sign.
Built quality and ergonomics is the 2nd big flaw.
Strangeness:
In the title: Shelby Lynne, Just A Little Lovin', (TIDAL) at position 3:03 the vocal recording distorts, audible on EVERY system and headphones I own.
NOT on the HEDDphone.
No idea why this can be.
Final word:
Listening with headphones is very personal.
What I've written here this is my experience, which I have a lot, privately and as a recording engineer.
Your mileage may vary, and for sure it does.
Last edited:
LCMusicLover
Headphoneus Supremus
Apparently so.
Agree regarding creaks/squeaks. Also about the whole Head-Fi hype train thing.
Pretty much disagree about everything else. Frankly, if you think 4xx beats Hedd then our ears live in different universes.
I've never listened to the Shelby Lynne track you mentioned. But I've been listening to a lot of Emma Ruth Rundle lately, and she produces a lot of very distorted guitar (extreme example, 'The Ecstasy in Thinking of Final Exits' from Electric Guitar: One). Comes through just as much on my Hedd as on my other cans -- Utopia, HEKse, Auteur, RAD-0, Ether 2. Same is true of the 'blown out' vocal near the end of 'He Lays In the Reins' from Iron & Wine/Calexico's 'In the Reins' live EP.
Everybody's entitled to their own opinion -- your ears/my ears.
silversurfer616
1000+ Head-Fier
Well, I have the Heddphone now for 3 weeks or so and indeed it needed around 60 hours for phone/brain burn in. Now I prefer it to my Lcd4(for sale...anyone?)and Diana but I don’t use them for mixing or anything professional.
They can sound darkish but it depends on the song, they sound different with a different amp, dac even cable...the old adage holds true * crap in, crap out*.
Also of note is the volume or how loud you listen. Myself, I am a low volume listener as I do a lot of reading at the same time but they open up in all directions tremendously when you increase the volume.
I have sold my SR009S with KGST amp because I really couldn’t connect emotionally to the music with it. I can with the Heddphone and that’s all that matters to me.
They can sound darkish but it depends on the song, they sound different with a different amp, dac even cable...the old adage holds true * crap in, crap out*.
Also of note is the volume or how loud you listen. Myself, I am a low volume listener as I do a lot of reading at the same time but they open up in all directions tremendously when you increase the volume.
I have sold my SR009S with KGST amp because I really couldn’t connect emotionally to the music with it. I can with the Heddphone and that’s all that matters to me.
Users who are viewing this thread
