[TheSloth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruppin Thanks, I'll give audio midi a try. So, the Apple using the APX or an optical out with a good external DAC (max DAC, Benchmark(?)) as good as a dedicated redbook CD player? Or is there a point where the external transport is better? Cary 303/300? Meridian?

There's no technical superiority to a direct CD transport if the rip is perfect, except that a lot more money goes into the digital sections of dedicated CD transports than it does into things like APX or SqeezeBoxes. The optical transmitters on these products are often quite cheap and nasty, and as such can contribute to jitter. However, the APX is bit perfect, and through the Max DAC has a total measured jitter of about 200ps which is pretty darn good for any transport.

 

[threEchelon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSloth 25th April: Updated to reflect current '06 modules in post no. 22. Convertible update: Along with the new modules, Mike and I have been working on a way to get Max Modules working in the Convertible. As can be seen from the size of the opening, and proximity of the DAC board, the large Max modules would not normally fit. The solution is to place the Max Modules on double length pins, and enlarge the hole on the left hand side where the casing rises higher to allow the Module to sit down in the socket properly. Mike has just confirmed that the Module will now fit in this configuration, however they did not have the tools to make the extension necessary, so I will have a friend with appropriate facilities make the necessary modification in the next week. These modules do require a DPS, and so any tests will also have to wait until I am able to get hold of one for myself. Update, ahead of schedule:

That would be really funny if some one put the modules in nintendo cartridges or something of the sort.

 

[Luco]

I keep thinking that the Home and Max amps look like giant Nintendo 64s...

 

[TheSloth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luco I keep thinking that the Home and Max amps look like giant Nintendo 64s...

And are fortunately named in such a way as not to imply any bodily functions, unlike certain other creations from Nintendo recently...

Hmm, how to make this on topic? The DPS is a solid upgrade - it gives clarity and refinement to any module that the 'brick' lacks.

For the budget conscious however, the maximum config that the 'brick' can support from my understanding is Max Modules and Desktop DAC (tested by yours truly to work fine for extended periods of time). So, if you want the DAC for convenience more than absolute performance, and want the best of the best without the DPS, that's the way to do it.

So, my 'will it or won't it' table for the 'brick':

Desktop, Home, Max Module: works.
Desktop Module + Desktop, Home or Max DAC: works.
Home Module + Desktop DAC: works.
Home Module + Home DAC: probably works, but can't test it.
Home Module + Max DAC: pushing it, best to avoid it.
Max Module + Desktop DAC: works.
Max Module + Home DAC: NO.
Max Module + Max DAC: NO.

For the last two 'NO''s, the brick will probably work for a time, however the current draw of the DAC/Module combination will be drawing more current than the 'brick' is rated to provide (240mA). There is no protection in the amp itself were the brick to overload and send a surge through the amp circuitry.

Finally, though I have said the DPS is a solid improvement, I still think I would (for my 650's...) prefer the Max Modules w/'brick' than Home Modules w/DPS. I'll have to test that out a bit more though.

** The table above only applies to the 240mA limited 'brick' that shipped until a little way into 2007. The new replacement wall wart has no such current limitation and is capable of powering all DAC and Module combinations, even in the Desktop Balanced.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

I'm beginning to think we're going to have to make a convertable for you that will allow you to swap DACs, too. Don't hold your breath, but I'll work towards it. Your willingness to evaluate all these combinations is an extraordinary value for those who have an interest in our products. Thank, on their behalf, for such a super job.

 

[RockinOut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSloth APX refers to AirPort eXpress! I don't like APE, the other acronym. When you open Audio MIDI setup, you will see a screen that in the right bottom section has settings for Audio Output. When no output device is connected, the source will read 'internal speakers'. When you plug in your optical cable, it will add the option to select 'digital output'. Next to the format, it will by default be set to 44100hz 2ch-24 bit. To upsample, simple click on the drop down menu and set 96000hz (the highest sampling frequency the HeadRoom DAC's can handle). The only irritation with this is that whenever you plug in or unplug the output device, the sampling frequency resets to either 44100hz if you aren't doing anything, and 48000hz if you are playing a DVD. When you get your amp back, play around with it and see if you hear any differences when fliping between the various sampling rate settings. Airport Express always outputs at 44100hz, 16bit, irrespective of what sampling rate the original file is. That is not such a bad thing, as it's output is very reliable and relatively low jitter because of that.

Answered all my questions I had regarding upsampling.

I haven't visited this thread for a few months. WOW!! So much info, in so little space.

A sincere, "Thank You" for this entire thread.

Also thanks to HeadRoom for supplying the "goods."

Kneeling with arms moving up and down like Mike Meyers: "We're not worthy, we're not worthy!"

 

[TheSloth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockinOut Answered all my questions I had regarding upsampling. I haven't visited this thread for a few months. WOW!! So much info, in so little space. A sincere, "Thank You" for this entire thread. Also thanks to HeadRoom for supplying the "goods." Kneeling with arms moving up and down like Mike Meyers: "We're not worthy, we're not worthy!"

You won't belive the number of hours that went into just three posts that cover all the modules I have (well maybe you would...). Between listening to the modules, and trying to write them up in a coherent, non-verbose fashion and then getting my awful digicam to take a postable picture, a lot of effort went into it.

Therefore, it's very gratifying to see that all that work, fun as it all was, has genuinely helped someone.

Enjoy!

 

[Jamey Warren]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens I'm beginning to think we're going to have to make a convertable for you that will allow you to swap DACs, too.

I like this idea better than replacing the Desktop DAC. When your finger gets better and you're back to playing piano, you'll have to send us your convertable for some body work.

 

[TheSloth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamey I like this idea better than replacing the Desktop DAC. When your finger gets better and you're back to playing piano, you'll have to send us your convertable for some body work.

Is that going to work? Take a look at the location of the DAC board, relative to the mutant Max Module implimentation:

If it was socketed, wouldn't it be too high?

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

I'm thinking we'll just have to make a full-sized Desktop convertable to replace or suplement (

) your Desktop Portable.

 

[Jamey Warren]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens I'm thinking we'll just have to make a full-sized Desktop convertable to replace or suplement ( ) your Desktop Portable.

I think I'm going to have to agree.

 

[all2ofme]

Great news! I've got a Desktop with the Home module and Home DAC on the way (soon, hopefully) to use with my 650s. I wasn't all that keen on getting a DPS as well, so maybe I should have gone the whole hog with the Max module and a lesser DAC, but never mind

. I suppose I can always swap them out later. I've already upped some specs with Jamey on the phone before they started putting it all together...

You said also that you could hear the difference between the USB and optical outputs on your MacBook Pro - was it a one's-better-than-the-other difference? I was expecting the USB to be the way to go on my MBP when it arrives. How did you feel about the two?

Ben

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSloth The second comment was after I bought a DPS and had Home and Max Modules to play with, and found that the clean, neutral presentation of the new Max Modules gave me everything I wanted from my 650's in my current setup, with less than perfect source (the Desktop DAC is good, especially for the price, but it's not the same quality as the Max Modules). The K701 seemed to show up everything that was wrong in the high midrange which I found fatiguing. For the K701's, with my source, I prefer the Home Moules for a slightly more relaxing, tubey (only slightly) sound.

 

[TheSloth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by all2ofme Great news! I've got a Desktop with the Home module and Home DAC on the way (soon, hopefully) to use with my 650s. I wasn't all that keen on getting a DPS as well, so maybe I should have gone the whole hog with the Max module and a lesser DAC, but never mind . I suppose I can always swap them out later. I've already upped some specs with Jamey on the phone before they started putting it all together... You said also that you could hear the difference between the USB and optical outputs on your MacBook Pro - was it a one's-better-than-the-other difference? I was expecting the USB to be the way to go on my MBP when it arrives. How did you feel about the two? Ben

No, USB is not good. Check out the stereophile review of the Desktop. Jitter goes through the roof, and it injects a tiny bit if hum as well through the grounding. That's not the DAC's fault - you'll see the desktop's measurement was the best they had taken from a USB device. The MBP's optical output is bit perfect, low jitter and allows you to upsample to 24bit/96khz through flipping a few buttons in Audio MIDI setup (in utilities). Upsampling + Home DAC sort of = Max DAC!

The Home/Max DAC's are a big step up from the Desktop DAC and I wouldn't recommend downgrading them. I can't guarantee that the brick is going to work properly, but then again, in terms of current draw, a Home Module + Home DAC should = Max Module + Desktop DAC in current draw.

Home + Home = DAC Stage, class A output stage and 4 opamps in class A
Max + Desktop = DAC Stace, class A output stage and 4 opamps in class A + 2 in class A/B.

Current draw should be about the same...

 

[all2ofme]

Ahh, ok. I was expecting to get less hum with the USB. I had read the Stereophile review but assumed that the jitter was only one of the things to be taken into account.

How does the optical out get around the hum? I'll start hunting around for a good digital cable then (unless you've got any recommendations?).

Really, really looking forward to this thing actually arriving

P.S. Maybe I should be PMing you about this so as not to clutter up the thread.

 

[TheSloth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by all2ofme Ahh, ok. I was expecting to get less hum with the USB. I had read the Stereophile review but assumed that the jitter was only one of the things to be taken into account. How does the optical out get around the hum? I'll start hunting around for a good digital cable then (unless you've got any recommendations?). Really, really looking forward to this thing actually arriving P.S. Maybe I should be PMing you about this so as not to clutter up the thread.

With optical connections there is no electrical circuit - there is a receiver interpreting pulses of light, therefore no way hum (grounding issues) can be transmitted.