[exsomnis]

They still do make binaural recordings. Dr.Chesky has done some albums recorded binaurally but I find that they only serve to make it seem like the sound field is slightly larger than your head. They also don't convey life-size like voices and instruments. Novel but not convincing.

The other thing about headphones are the positional cues. Move your head up and down and the soundstage is strapped to your head, moving with it. So if you turned 180 degrees or were in a handstand upside down, the soundstage would follow you. Instead of how it would really sound in real life, where the band is in a fixed position and turning 180 degrees means that the band is playing behind you.

VR does address this, but there is yet to be a headphone only application that is focused on high fidelity.

 

[theveterans]

They still do make binaural recordings. Dr.Chesky has done some albums recorded binaurally but I find that they only serve to make it seem like the sound field is slightly larger than your head. They also don't convey life-size like voices and instruments. Novel but not convincing.

The other thing about headphones are the positional cues. Move your head up and down and the soundstage is strapped to your head, moving with it. So if you turned 180 degrees or were in a handstand upside down, the soundstage would follow you. Instead of how it would really sound in real life, where the band is in a fixed position and turning 180 degrees means that the band is playing behind you.

VR does address this, but there is yet to be a headphone only application that is focused on high fidelity.

 
This is why I don't prefer headphone listening. That chest pounding beats always put me to the groove. I just can't get used to headphone imaging except for gaming.

 

[5genez]

Was designed for headphones... This also sounds great on speakers.... 
 

​

 

[jibzilla]

Most people say that after a certain point, high end headphones stop making sense and money is better spent on speakers.

But the hard truth to face is -- speakers aren't nearly as resolving as high end headphones, and getting than the center image from loudspeakers takes an optimal room geometry that most people don't have. My speakers sound like veiled trash next to my HE-6, TH900 and Utopia.

 
I have sort of come full circle when it comes to headphones and speakers. I was able to audition several $10-30k speaker setups at a friend of mines audio store and trying out $1-300 headphones when Amazon would let you try them for nothing. I could never really find any nitpicks with the $30k setups but they were way out of my price range. His $10k setups were amazing in their own right but I cold always find some fatal flaw and that was my max budget and back then way more than max budet. Saw that at $10k you could really afford the best of the best headphone wise and decided to go down that road. In the mean time I tried a bunch of powered speakers for my dj setup and bought a pair of adam a7x and sub8.
 
Several years latter I have tried most modern day flagship headphones and totl headphone amps and was really pleased with 2 headphones but found even they had pretty big nitpicks over the long haul. While I was buying, selling and going to meets I was also demoing TT's. My fiend who owned the audio store never had and Japan equipment for demo. It was mostly American and European and mostly cd player/dac as well. Took some advise from a member on Audio Kharma and bought and sold a few vintage japan TT's. I have never had such a good experience audio wise by a country mile. All of them blew me away till I got my current TT which works out perfect space and feature set wise and was just the icing on the cake.
 
Now I have an itch for vintage japan speakers that needs to be scratched. I'm holding on to my hd800 but I think that is it. Not sure what I will get yet. The adam's are amazing for what they are. Whatever I get will have some stiff competition.

 

[penmarker]

IMO, it is unwise to say something is worse than the other when your situation is not ideal for TOTL performance such as room geometry or non-binaural source recording.
Both a Toyota and a Pagani will get you to the grocery store, but Toyota has more trunk space. That doesn't make the Pagani garbage.
 
Like I said, different horses different courses.
 
Very best.

 

[mrtim6]

I have sort of come full circle when it comes to headphones and speakers. I was able to audition several $10-30k speaker setups at a friend of mines audio store and trying out $1-300 headphones when Amazon would let you try them for nothing. I could never really find any nitpicks with the $30k setups but they were way out of my price range. His $10k setups were amazing in their own right but I cold always find some fatal flaw and that was my max budget and back then way more than max budet. Saw that at $10k you could really afford the best of the best headphone wise and decided to go down that road. In the mean time I tried a bunch of powered speakers for my dj setup and bought a pair of adam a7x and sub8.

Several years latter I have tried most modern day flagship headphones and totl headphone amps and was really pleased with 2 headphones but found even they had pretty big nitpicks over the long haul. While I was buying, selling and going to meets I was also demoing TT's. My fiend who owned the audio store never had and Japan equipment for demo. It was mostly American and European and mostly cd player/dac as well. Took some advise from a member on Audio Kharma and bought and sold a few vintage japan TT's. I have never had such a good experience audio wise by a country mile. All of them blew me away till I got my current TT which works out perfect space and feature set wise and was just the icing on the cake.

Now I have an itch for vintage japan speakers that needs to be scratched. I'm holding on to my hd800 but I think that is it. Not sure what I will get yet. The adam's are amazing for what they are. Whatever I get will have some stiff competition.

I'm a massive fan of TOTL vintage Japanese Hifi gear. The interesting thing is most of the Japan Only gear is unknown in the west.

My current 3 hifi setups are:

Living room Yamaha A-S3000 integrated amp & Yamaha CD-3000 SACD/Streamer player (not vintage part of Yamaha 125 year anniversary) into Diatone DS-5000 4 way vintage (made 1982) speakers. Absolutely magnificent- really believe these can match the best currently available. Only downside is they are extremely rare even in Japan. I bought mine from hifido- who sent them to me in Sydney Australia in a wooden crate! Now the postage was expensive as each speaker weighs 87kg!

Listening room: Yamaha GT-2000 turntable (1982) - probably the best direct drive turntable EVER at it's retail and current price. Not I'm not say best DD turntable ever. I believe the GT however would not be embarrassed sonically in the company of any turntable.

Phono stage vintage Klyne 7PX - this is vintage American made not Japanese
Sony TA-E88B pre-amp (1977) see:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
Into Sony TA-N7 VFET Power amp (1977)
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N7B.html

This system is amazing really musically satisfying.

My HD800s or my TH900s or even my Pioneer SEM1 really can't match either of these systems in terms of feeling the music, despite being excellent headphones.

 

[jibzilla]

I'm a massive fan of TOTL vintage Japanese Hifi gear. The interesting thing is most of the Japan Only gear is unknown in the west.

My current 3 hifi setups are:

Living room Yamaha A-S3000 integrated amp & Yamaha CD-3000 SACD/Streamer player (not vintage part of Yamaha 125 year anniversary) into Diatone DS-5000 4 way vintage (made 1982) speakers. Absolutely magnificent- really believe these can match the best currently available. Only downside is they are extremely rare even in Japan. I bought mine from hifido- who sent them to me in Sydney Australia in a wooden crate! Now the postage was expensive as each speaker weighs 87kg!

Listening room: Yamaha GT-2000 turntable (1982) - probably the best direct drive turntable EVER at it's retail and current price. Not I'm not say best DD turntable ever. I believe the GT however would not be embarrassed sonically in the company of any turntable.

Phono stage vintage Klyne 7PX - this is vintage American made not Japanese
Sony TA-E88B pre-amp (1977) see:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-E88B.html
Into Sony TA-N7 VFET Power amp (1977)
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-TA-N7B.html

This system is amazing really musically satisfying.

My HD800s or my TH900s or even my Pioneer SEM1 really can't match either of these systems in terms of feeling the music, despite being excellent headphones.

 
GT2000 and DS-5000!

 That is some nice kit sir. Do you know Theophile? He is a fairly frequent poster on A.K. and turned me on to the GT2000 and also lives in Sydney. He has powered monitors like I do though. He did well in the KRK Expose. His Expose's and my Adam's were the only powered speakers I enjoyed out of 30 different models, and no middle ground what so ever like I found with headphones. I think he is getting the vintage japan speaker itch too though.  
 
I have compared the GT2000 to a Brinkmann Bardo with 009/kgsshv to boot. I liked the Bardo a bit better but they also had a phono pre/cart advantage. At least for me the vintage japan tt's have literally a 3x advantage over anything modern day. The engineering and attention to detail is unreal. Sadly the GT2000 was too "Gigantic and Tremendous" for my small space. I do have a kp-9010 that is just a dream come true and a decent chunk of what the GT2000 is. DS-5000's are in the same boat at 87kg. buuuuuuuut
 
I just put in a bid on some mint ds-3000's!!! In their original boxes just like my kp-9010! Maybe if vintage headphones like the R10, Original Omega's, k-1000, and he-90 still came mint in their original packaging at the same price as when they were released I'd stick with headphones. Can you imagine that? It's true with vintage japan TT's and Speakers. I got my kp-9010 for $1k shipped and if my bid holds out ds-3000's for $2k shipped. Just about the same price as when they were released in the late 80's.

 

[mrtim6]

Hi Jibzilla,

Yes I have spoken to Theo - he lives in Queensland not Sydney so we are not neighbors.

He is very knowledgable regarding the GT-2000

The DS-3000 should be a fantastic speaker for the money I really love the DS-5000 more than my Yamaha NS-2000s.

Interesting your comparison between TTs - your right the GT Is a massive TT!

 

[jibzilla]

Hi Jibzilla,

Yes I have spoken to Theo - he lives in Queensland not Sydney so we are not neighbors.

He is very knowledgable regarding the GT-2000

The DS-3000 should be a fantastic speaker for the money I really love the DS-5000 more than my Yamaha NS-2000s.

Interesting your comparison between TTs - your right the GT Is a massive TT!

 
There are lots of factors when comparing TT's so maybe comparing is not the best thing to do. Still because allot of the items I was looking at have not been affected by inflation and were made when music was at it's peak I still stand by my 3x better than modern day. Some people do not like over engineered stuff and I can respect that. I personally love it.
 
Found out I will not get the ds-3000's for $2k shipped. The shipping alone is $2k. Still $4k for something that was $2600 in 1984 isn't too bad. I have heard from another vintage japan fan that Diatone was the way to go over Yamaha and has slipped under the radar.
 
Shipping is brutal though. If there is any downside it's that you have to spend $1k for TT for shipping and transformer (acupwr) total: $400 and $4k for speakers for brutal shipping total: $2k to make the transaction worth it.

 

[mrtim6]

Yeah if you're buying from Hifido shipping is expensive- however they really know how to pack & ship a speaker. I recently received my 50th anniversary Diatone 610MB full range speakers. The packaging was second to none- absolutely superb.

My DS-5000 were shipped in a crate with padded crossbeam in place bubble wrap & polystyrene for extra protection- it took me a day to cut the speakers out of the crate!

I think the 1984 DS-3000 would be great value even with the shipping cost, as I doubt you will find a speaker that good at that price IMO.

 

[jibzilla]

Yeah if you're buying from Hifido shipping is expensive- however they really know how to pack & ship a speaker. I recently received my 50th anniversary Diatone 610MB full range speakers. The packaging was second to none- absolutely superb.

My DS-5000 were shipped in a crate with padded crossbeam in place bubble wrap & polystyrene for extra protection- it took me a day to cut the speakers out of the crate!

I think the 1984 DS-3000 would be great value even with the shipping cost, as I doubt you will find a speaker that good at that price IMO.

 
I have not dealt with hifido.jp yet. I have always been able to find better deals on yahoo japan and the same impeccable shipping, packaging and product condition. I passed on this deal though cause the shipping was so high and am waiting for hifido and audiounion to respond to me about their shipping rates. Sounds like it's sky high no matter who I choose. As a hazmat certified operator though I'm shocked that speakers are hazmat. From what I have been told it's cause of the big ass magnets.
 
At the same time it is that kind of packaging that will ensure I get my speakers in one piece. I just need to take a moment and think about it. 

 

[groovyd]

  Was designed for headphones... This also sounds great on speakers.... 
 

​

interesting... with my mini maggies speakers his basement room is infront of me but behind me with my LCD-X. infact the entire thing is behind me with the headphones but otherwise with very precise left right imaging.

 

[canali]

one thing i am finding is, for my budget, neither system is perfect.
just got some Focal Alpha 50s as my desktop monitors on stands.
(untreated room...i do have the sonarworks app i'm trying for free for 21 days as below...)
http://www.sonarworks.com/systemwide/download-2?utm_source=Sonarworks+Trial+Sign-ups&utm_campaign=eef9ffecd0-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_03_23&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a1eb48c1bb-eef9ffecd0-285882413&mc_cid=eef9ffecd0&mc_eid=f90e57c7b1
 
love that live sound out of my Focals...but then i miss the detail resolution that my iems/cans can provide, too.
...so when i try my cans i suddenly miss that larger sound and more real bass impact of speakers.
so there are pros and cons to both systems.... guess it is best to have both.
 
can't wait 'til we can move the sound out of our heads into resembling live speakers
''Of headphones to come'' (written by Ty for Stereophile a few months back)
http://www.stereophile.com/content/headphones-come#fSyFFulcaYQuewwi.97
 
Ty and Guttenberg discuss this issue far better than I can.
enjoy
 
NOTE: the 'innerfidelity' article was written a few yrs ago in 2013 ..really before
we saw some of the premium earphones/cans
that we do see today as a growing trend (focal utopia, sony z1r, etc)

Across the Great Divide: Can We Love Headphones & Speakers Equally

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/across-great-divide-can-we-love-headphones-speakers-equally#QaFGuEtyYEQkwMsS.9
 
''What's more accurate: speakers or headphones?''
https://www.cnet.com/news/whats-more-accurate-speakers-or-headphones/

 

[5genez]

  love that live sound out of my Focals...but then i miss the detail resolution that my iems/cans can provide, too.
...so when i try my cans i suddenly miss that larger sound and more real bass impact of speakers.
so there are pros and cons to both systems.... guess it is best to have both.
 

You might want to try this and be in for a big surprise...  At times what I hear listening nearfield sound frighteningly close to being alive.
 
https://www.amazon.com/BBE-Desktop-Maximizer-Unbalanced-Connections/dp/B00FRLB87Q

 
Sadly.. Its a last run on the model for now.   Get it while you can.  I have been using one in my system since the late eighties.  Its gone through many updates.   Its uses a chip inside manufactured by the same company that makes the Muses chips.   
 
If you decide to get one, please let me know so I can give you a few tips at getting the best sound out of it.  What it does is correct some of the major anomalies that speakers cause to the sound. Too many people just cranked them up without knowing what they were doing and failed to get the true benefits.  I will tell you what I learned over the years.  
 
Another option is the dual mono version that is rack mount size...  Many musicians use them. https://www.amazon.com/BBE-Sound-482i-Sonic-Maximizer/dp/B0002FDKIW

 

[canali]

  You might want to try this and be in for a big surprise...  At times what I hear listening nearfield sound frighteningly close to being alive.
 
https://www.amazon.com/BBE-Desktop-Maximizer-Unbalanced-Connections/dp/B00FRLB87Q
 
Sadly.. Its a last run on the model for now.   Get it while you can.  I have been using one in my system since the late eighties.  Its gone through many updates.   Its uses a chip inside manufactured by the same company that makes the Muses chips.   
 
If you decide to get one, please let me know so I can give you a few tips at getting the best sound out of it.  What it does is correct some of the major anomalies that speakers cause to the sound. Too many people just cranked them up without knowing what they were doing and failed to get the true benefits.  I will tell you what I learned over the years.  
 
Another option is the dual mono version that is rack mount size...  Many musicians use them. https://www.amazon.com/BBE-Sound-482i-Sonic-Maximizer/dp/B0002FDKIW
 

 
so this piece of equipment won't interfere how i setup or use my DAC or microrendu thru my laptop/desktop (which i'm using as my ''NAS'')?
i'm in canada...amazon.com won't ship the first product to me me...and the cdn link amazon.ca doesn't have it in stock....drag...
 
but the 2nd one 'sonic maximizer' does show in stock and will ship...
 
i just first want to do more research into them and if they'll fit my needs.
laptop/microrendu/roon ready/ to DAC to speakers or cans... with music on laptop.