[fredpb]

I have been disappointed lately in my HD600 Sennheisers. They sound superb except, to me, no very low end bass at all. I have Sony MDR7506's too. They have the bass, but not the articulation at mid and high freqs that the HD600's do.

I had a Creek OBH11 amp. Got rid of that, and now have a Headroom Supreme amp, which sounds better.

Then I finally "broke in" the HD600's, but playing them for about 100 hours with light jazz music at a loud volume. That helped.

But I am still unhappy about the lack of very low end bass of the HD600's. Now the come close to the 7506's. Also, with complex music, a lot of orchestra and low end bass, the bass that the HD600's have seem to get "lost" somewhere.

I am searching for perfection I know. Why not?

I can still return my Supreme amp for an MG Head tube amp but am not convinced now that it would help.

After more research, I am now looking into Sony MDR7509s or MDRV900s, and Beyer DT770 Pro, DT990 Pro, or perhaps the more expensive Beyer's.

ANY comments on my quest would be appreciated! Especially about the comparison between the Beyers and the HD600's.
Should I dump the HD600s for Beyers? I prefer full range sound to extravagant detail. Classical music for me is not complete unless I hear the low end of the sound.

 

[r3cc0s]

i don't think it's lacking bass
the 7506 is closed
and I belive due to resonance and give more bass
but it's still controled

it's i guess the traid off for having open cans

The 600 with the supreme should have the perfect amount of bass
I'm suprised you would want more

I guess the Beyer line 770 has more...

um... Grado Rs-1 or 2 has more mid-bass

um....
3000 I think has more bass as well

 

[MacDEF]

The Supreme should be pretty good, but a Cosmic, Home, or Max will give the HD600 better bass

Seriously, out of a Max, the bass on the HD600 is deep and tight. It doesn't extend *quite* as far as the V6 (hardly any headphones do), but it's better than any other full-size headphone I've heard.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally posted by fredpb After more research, I am now looking into Sony MDR7509s or MDRV900s, and Beyer DT770 Pro, DT990 Pro, or perhaps the more expensive Beyer's.

fredpb, the MDR-7509s and the MDR-V900s generally aren't worth the price, IMHO. They cost anywhere from $140 to $250 (in U.S. dollars, from U.S. resellers), but they aren't worth more than $50 to $60, as far as their sound quality goes. They have overboosted mid-bass response with strangely (despite their boominess) little low bass to speak of. The upper midrange is "cold" (i.e. recessed), as well. And what's WORST about the MDR-7509/V900 is that the articulation at mid- and high frequencies is much worse than even your MDR-7506's, with all sorts of echoey, honky and tinny resonances further screwing up their sound! At this price point you're WAY better off looking at the Beyer DT250 series for closed headphones (either the 80-ohm or the 250-ohm version; while the 80-ohm version sounds good with a portable but better with an amp, the 250-ohm version sounds mediocre from a portable and much better with an amp).

Unfortunately, there is NO headphone that will give you the bass that you crave and also good articulation in the mid-to-high frequencies.

 

[fredpb]

Eagle_Driver...

Thanks for the info! The Sony 900's are out then. The Beyers
would give me more "high end" sound than the Sony 7506s?
How would the Beyers sound against the HD600's?

I want to stay with the Supreme amp. I already got rid of the Creek and can't really afford the more expensive amps.
I will be replacing the HD600's with the new headphones, and selling the HD600's.

 

[Mumrik]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF The Supreme should be pretty good, but a Cosmic, Home, or Max will give the HD600 better bass

Supreme really is a funny name for an amp that isn't the top of the line...

 

[r3cc0s]

so what do you want
open can or closed?

um basic v6
warmer mid-bassed denon ahd-950
beyer 770-831 are great with a cosmo

thats all i can think of
is that audio technica 2002?

for open
you have alot of choices
like sony cd-3000
grado line 325-and up hp1

no other sennheisers unfortunately less orpheous

um.. i don't think akg's will do it for you
hrm.. I dunno if the koss 250/a

I mean you're looking at really high end stuff
if you want performance simular to the 600 with the strong bass extention of the v6 (which I think is very hard to find)

 

[r3cc0s]

oooh yea
don't get the damned v900s at all
um... **** NO

they suck
I had them
I thought I liked the sound at first
but it was like man over mid-bassed
lacked details
and warm as soup and muggy as it


they do look cool
If they could develop a neutral v6 in it's format
that would be so slick
i'd buy them immediatley

too bad only has only 4 cans I see that are good
R10 of course KING OF ALL CANS
MDR-Cd3000 a sharper not as neutral version of the R10 I think
though I never listened to the R10 and I probably won't
the 1700
and v6

 

[a1leyez0nm3]

Beyer 250s, either 80 ohm or 250 ohm, although I think the 250 ohm ones have different drivers

 

[kwkarth]

Fred,
Actually, you might want to consider the Sony CD-3000's and I just happen to have a pair for sale

(more shameless commercialism) (hey, a guy has to fund his habit somehow!)
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showth...&threadid=4559

 

[Russ Arcuri]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF Seriously, out of a Max, the bass on the HD600 is deep and tight.

That's funny... because out of a CHA 47 Altoids amp, bass with the HD580s is deep and tight too.

Surprisingly enough, the HD580's bass response out of the headphone jack of my Integra 606 CD changer is also deep and tight -- but I've talked about that on this forum enough already.

Something's going on here of late that needs to be addressed -- people seem almost to be implying that the HD580/600s aren't worth bothering with if you don't have a top-notch, high-end amp.

I'm sure a top-notch amp such as the Max will drive them very well, and wring out every last drop of performance from them. But if a $200 headphone *requires* a $1700 amplifier just to get the bass 'deep and tight,' then it's a poor excuse for a headphone in my book.

Thankfully, I've been able to drive my HD580s with relatively inexpensive gear, and I do believe I'm getting most of what they're capable of out of them. (The preceding statement only makes sense if one considers a $600 CD player or a dedicated CMOY amp "inexpensive." Remember that the typical man-on-the-street is going to think any dedicated amplifier "just for headphones" is going to be a waste of money, and why the heck pay $600 for a 6 disc CD changer when you can get a 200 disc changer for only $149 on sale?)

Anyway, in a roundabout way I think I've come to my main point: if fredpb's 600s don't sound right to him even driven by a Headroom Supreme, it occurs to me that they probably just aren't the right headphone for him. It makes more sense to me for him to look for another headphone in the $200-$400 range that might suit him better than to drop $1700 on an amp that probably won't make the HD600s sound significantly different.

As for Fred's assertion that the HD600s don't deliver enough bass, I'm not sure what to say. My CMOY amp, which was built from approximately $20 worth of parts, is capable of delivering very satisfying bass with my HD580s. Either his HD600s are defective, or we just have wildly differing opinions of what the 'correct' amount of bass is. That's okay too -- it just means he should be shopping for another set of cans rather than another amp.

None of this is to say that I wouldn't like to hear what my HD580s sound like when driven by a Max. Of course I would. But if the bass gets much stronger with it, I doubt I'll like the combo very much.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Something's going on here of late that needs to be addressed -- people seem almost to be implying that the HD580/600s aren't worth bothering with if you don't have a top-notch, high-end amp.

Russ, you know, you're right. I've been guilty of that (raises hand). I think where it comes from is that for a while there, people were criticizing the HD600 for not having enough bass, for being "dark," for being muddy, etc. All of which are things that simpy don't happen when the HD600 are being driven by a really good amp. And while the HD600 aren't as good out of a lesser amp (bass isn't as deep or tight, details aren't quite as good, etc.), you're quite right that they are *still* one of the best headphones in the world.

Maybe those of us who have heard the HD600 driven well are just overcompensating

... trying to preempt the people who criticize them based on flaws that are not flaws of the headphone, but rather flaws in the amplification?

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Add a subwoofer like kwkarth

Or add an EQ as dumbbass booster, I'd say

 

[DarkAngel]

The answer to your lack of bass concern is simple, hate to sound like a broken record but any HD600 owner must purchase Clou red or blue jaspis cable from headroom........this is mandatory upgrade! You will hear deeper/more powerful bass response, it is very noticeable improvement. (I'm surprised this was not mentioned in every response to your question)

Don't worry your supreme amp is fine, HD600 are relatively efficient and mine play plenty loud at 1/2 volume (12 o'clock position) using both Creek OBH-11se and Grado RA1. I use mine with Corda amp because of 0 ohm output which makes HD600
sound even more detailed.

Don't even think of getting another set of cans, I have many but if I could only have 1 set it would be Senn HD600/Clou Red for general listening of all types.

BUT.......If I listened almost exclUsively to classical I would go for Sony CD3000, extremely detailed and revealing for diaphram design, but needs good source material (like classical) or a warm sounding amp for other material.

 

[bootman]

Yes, give the clous a try. Headroom has a generous return policy so you don't really have anything to loose but time.
Let us know if you are going to go in this direction.
(plus its much cheaper than a max!

)