[dimfer]

excellent thread and very helpful - thanks.

new to headfi, so please bear with me.

looking at the product spec, what are the indicators that the headphones can be driven by a basic portable unit like Ipod, or need amps etc?

like for
1- no amp required - from what impedance to what impedance

and other factors too.

would love to see this on the initial post.

 

[Deiz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimfer /img/forum/go_quote.gif excellent thread and very helpful - thanks. new to headfi, so please bear with me. looking at the product spec, what are the indicators that the headphones can be driven by a basic portable unit like Ipod, or need amps etc? like for 1- no amp required - from what impedance to what impedance and other factors too. would love to see this on the initial post.

In terms of raw output, impedance is only half of it. Sensitivity is the other half.

Sensitivity is the output level of a pair of headphones at 1 milliwatt.

However, each headphone output will have different power - An iPod, for example, is 30 milliwatts per channel.

In order to double the SPL, power must be increased by a factor of ten. Say you have a headphone output on your computer, and it's 100 mWPC.

A pair of Sennheiser PX100s, at 1 mW will output at 114 dB. At 10 mW, they'd do 124 dB, and off the computer, they would manage 134 dB. Out of an iPod you'd be looking at about 126 dB.

Now, Sennheiser HD650s have a sensitivity of 103 dB. You might think that means they'd output 115 dB out of an iPod (1 -> 10 mW = Add 10 dB, 10 -> 30 mW, 22% of the way to doubling, add 2 dB, or so) but you'd be wrong.

The PX100s have an impedance of 32 ohms, compared to the 300 ohm impedance of HD650s. In practice, this means with an iPod, the 650s would get 5 milliwatts per channel, compared to the 30 mW the PX100s receive - Thus, the 650s would be outputting around 107 dB, roughly a quarter of the volume the PX100s would be.

 

[Geruvah]

Going to use this instead of making a thread about it. Hey! I thought I registered here 4 years ago. Ah well.

Wanting cans now for when I'm sitting in front of my computer.

-Budget: Around $250-$300. Just where is this guy getting these prices from, by the way?
-Preferably no Amp. The ones I've been finding have been too expensive. But I can see myself getting a moderately priced one in a few months.
-Music: I listen to every genre except country and rap. For the most part, I listen mainly to a broad amount of rock, electronica (that includes trance and drum n' bass) and classical.
-No travelling. No roommates. No worries about anybody else around me hearing it. I don't think I'd care if it was open air or sealed.
-I'll be listening for quite a few hours in a day's time. Everyday.

The only thing I really have to compare to is my IEM Ultimate Ears super.fi 5pros. So my experience isn't quite strong here being used to isolation.

I was thinking of the Denon D2000; I've heard you can get them around this price range...somewhere. However, modding it sounds like a common recommendation and doing such a thing is way way way over my head.

The ATH-ESW9 seemed nice but I've heard that the plastic hinges are quite fragile.

The HD-600 needs a powerful power source and though I plan to buy a new amp in the coming months, I've heard this doesn't offer a detailed sound compared to the Grado SR325 but that doesn't look quite as comfortable and I've heard of the cups falling off, not to mention that if I make a sudden move with my head, it can drop off of your ears.

Thanks for your patience, guys!

 

[Deiz]

Pricing's accumulated from a variety of sources, I imagine. eBay, Headroom, Audiocubes, etcetera. Headroom tends to have competitive pricing, and in the event they're a few dollars more expensive than the competition, I still buy from them - Why not support the company that pushed this headphone enthusiasm madness to where it is today?

A few things to consider: I know Denon had some fairly major build quality issues a while back, I'm assuming they've been rectified.

The ESW9s are supra-aural, and I personally can't use supra-aural headphones for more than a few hours or my ears get overly warm, and sore.

I haven't heard the HD600s personally, but I do love my HD650s. Far more than the Grados I've heard (Just an SR60. Unsure how indicative they are of the higher-end, given the price point difference.), but that's entirely subjective.

Honestly, it depends on your listening balance. I find the HD650s to be the best-balanced (Incidentally, they're the best, balanced, too.) headphone I've ever heard. There's nothing that they do badly, in my experience. However, lacking specialization means that if you want rock to be in your face, as if you're sitting in the front row, you'll not find that.

The Sennheiser sound seems to be plush. It's detailed, smooth, and not in the least fatiguing.

The other benefit to the HD6*0 line is they grow, hugely. Not that they sound bad out of an iPod, but when you drop a substantial amount on an amp and source, you're not headphone-limited by them.

In your position, I'd weigh my tastes - If you listen to rock predominantly, you likely want Grados. Keeping in mind that the stock pads aren't terribly comfortable, and have a tendency to break down.

Electronic music*? I find the way HD650s do drum & bass, neurofunk, etcetera to be engaging. They lack the immense wall of bass the TakeTs can provide, and they don't make the snares magical, either... But I don't think any dynamic headphone can do that. From what I've heard (and seen in frequency response graphs), HD600s have slightly less bass than the HD650s.

*Note: It's electronic music, electronica is a marketing buzzword. Stick it to the man and forget that word.

Classical's no question. Upper-end Sennheisers are perfect for classical. It allowed me to gain an appreciation for well-recorded classical I'd never had before.

I don't really know how ESW9s and D2000s perform with various genres, but based on =383&graphID[]=243&graphID[]=173&graphID[]=573]this handy graph, the ESW9 has some pretty wonky treble, and the SR325i has a big peak around 8-10 kHz. The D2000 seems to have the most bass, getting up to 0dB by 20 Hz, but I doubt you'll be disappointed with the bass of an HD600, either.

Regarding buyer's remorse, it's really not possible to tell if you like or dislike a headphone until you hear it yourself. No amount of reading comparisons and reviews can tell you your own subjective feelings toward a headphone. Thusly, I suggest you pick up whatever you choose, used. That way if you hate it, you can sell it off for the same price, losing what you paid in shipping, only, as opposed to a third of the headphone's value.

 

[Geruvah]

Augh. I should've known about that electronica vs. electronic. I should've just called it "techno" and be done with it.

Very informative post. Thanks a lot Deiz. Weighing my tastes would be difficult since some of the music I listen to even start to merge together a bit. I may have to go for an all around balance. Though I think bass isn't as huge a deal to me as those who listen to rap, so I won't need it to be powerful (so maybe DT880's...).

The 650's may be a bit out of my price range, even at headroom's B-stock, so the 600 seems to be the next one. I'll read up and hopefully will get more feedback for the D2000's comparison before I make my decision. It seems I can get it for $200 at buy.com, though if I'm willing to spend to about $300 I wonder if there's better.

 

[Deiz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geruvah /img/forum/go_quote.gif Augh. I should've known about that electronica vs. electronic. I should've just called it "techno" and be done with it. Very informative post. Thanks a lot Deiz. Weighing my tastes would be difficult since some of the music I listen to even start to merge together a bit. I may have to go for an all around balance. Though I think bass isn't as huge a deal to me as those who listen to rap, so I won't need it to be powerful (so maybe DT880's...). The 650's may be a bit out of my price range, even at headroom's B-stock, so the 600 seems to be the next one. I'll read up and hopefully will get more feedback for the D2000 before I make my decision.

HD650 listed on the B-stock page is actually more expensive than a new one. There's a $150-off coupon "HD650" bringing new HD650s down to $350. The ones on the B-stock page a) terminate in XLR3 and b) come with an adapter, so that's why they carry a price premium.

I'm not exactly sure where you can swing HD600s for $240. Headroom's got them for $320, which is not a far cry from HD650s. On eBay I can find them for $290.

If you a) do decide to go Sennheiser and b) can't find HD600s for under $260 or so, I would really recommend hanging around, posting more, and checking the for-sale forums for HD600s (Seem to go for $200-230 shipped.) and HD650s ($225-260.) once you're eligible (For-sale forum requires 30 days membership, and 50 posts.)

Due to the fragile nature of Grado pads I'm not sure I'd want to buy used. Used Denons and Audio-Technicas are a possibility, but I don't know what they sell for.

The whole not-losing-money-if-you-hate-them used advantage could prove advantageous, I think, in helping you find the sound you like.

 

[milooz]

Hey guys !

This is my first post here but i've been reading the forum for hours and hours , looking for the "perfect" headphones (in my price range of course).

First i was looking for new headphones to buy to my father who had been using HD430 for about 20 years now.

After alot of reading, i ended up buying the HD595 on ebay for 120e which i thought was a great deal.

I have been able to try them amped and was pretty amazed by the confort and sound quality.

It was the first time i tried good quality headphones and now i want to buy some for myself.

I listen mostly to rock, hip hop, and a bit of electro music. I'm looking for open cans for homelistenning which can give me the highest quality at a quite cheap price. My price range is about 80-150e. I have no amp.

I'm thinking of buying HD595 for about 120e
Or HD555 for 80e.

Some people say they are identical in sound quality, so i dont know.

I've looked on the buyers guide page on this site and found these :


1-Audio Technica ad500/700 ($100 and $130)
1-AKG 240S ($85)
1.5-Sennheiser hd555 ($95) Availalbe in 50 and 120 ohm versions.
1-Grado Sr80/sr125 ($95 and $149)
1-Alessandro MS-1
2-Goldring DR150 ($135)
2-Sennheiser hd580 ($160)
2-Sennheiser hd595 ($180) Available in 50 and 120 ohm versions
1-Grado Sr225 ($180)
2-AKG k501 ($190)
3-Beyerdynamic DT880 PRO/2005 (~$200)


On ebay, i found some of them at the same price range than the HD555 and 595.

Could you give me some help choosing between 555 and 595 ?

Or are the Audio Technica ad500/700 better for the same price ? What about some AKG ?

its really too complex to choose... i need some help


To summarise :
i listen to rock and hip hop
home listenning open cans
good confort is important
cheap price (less than 150e)
i have no amp
i dont mind buying used ones

 

[Deiz]

Off the bat, I can tell you that it's impossible to find new DT880s for $200. $250-260 is the bare minimum.


Of what you listed, the AD500 and AD700 are bass light, but if you can live with that they're good headphones.
The K240S is a nice headphone, but is woefully inefficient, so you'd be cranking an iPod up quite a bit to get listenable output.
I would not say the HD555 and HD595 are equal. The latter performs better without an amplifier, and has a smoother sound.
I'll disregard the Grados (And Alessandros, which are modified, rebranded Grados) because a) I don't listen rock and thus their sound isn't what I seek and b) the only Grado I've heard was an SR60, briefly.
I have never heard a Goldring DR150, but there are a few comparisons versus Sennheiser and Grado offerings you may want to search for.

The DT880 is likely the best headphone here, in terms of resolution, but again, I highly doubt you'll find a new one for anywhere near $200.

If you get your post count up (to 50) and stay around (for a month) you can use the for-sale forums to pick up a used DT880 for under $200, I'd wager.

 

[milooz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deiz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Off the bat, I can tell you that it's impossible to find new DT880s for $200. $250-260 is the bare minimum. Of what you listed, the AD500 and AD700 are bass light, but if you can live with that they're good headphones. The K240S is a nice headphone, but is woefully inefficient, so you'd be cranking an iPod up quite a bit to get listenable output. I would not say the HD555 and HD595 are equal. The latter performs better without an amplifier, and has a smoother sound. I'll disregard the Grados (And Alessandros, which are modified, rebranded Grados) because a) I don't listen rock and thus their sound isn't what I seek and b) the only Grado I've heard was an SR60, briefly. I have never heard a Goldring DR150, but there are a few comparisons versus Sennheiser and Grado offerings you may want to search for. The DT880 is likely the best headphone here, in terms of resolution, but again, I highly doubt you'll find a new one for anywhere near $200. If you get your post count up (to 50) and stay around (for a month) you can use the for-sale forums to pick up a used DT880 for under $200, I'd wager.

Thanks very much for the help, i appreciate.
So the DT880 are better than the HD555 and 595. But do you think its worth the price difference ? I might find used DT880 on ebay...

AD500 vs HD555 ?

AD700 vs HD595 ?

Which one would you choose on these as they are approximatly the same price and same type of cans ?
Other advices are welcome

 

[Geruvah]

I think I'm leaning toward the HD-650's now. I can see, despite just still walking in the shallow end of the pool, the slogan, "Sorry about your wallet" came from.
I think I should look at amps, too, since I know my budget with them.

 

[Deiz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milooz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks very much for the help, i appreciate. So the DT880 are better than the HD555 and 595. But do you think its worth the price difference ? I might find used DT880 on ebay... AD500 vs HD555 ? AD700 vs HD595 ? Which one would you choose on these as they are approximatly the same price and same type of cans ? Other advices are welcome

Take a look at =113&graphID[]=143&graphID[]=563&graphID[]=683]this. The HD595 is more refined, having tamer bass and smoother treble than the HD555.

On the other hand, the AD700 and AD500 are both bass light, but the AD700 has the advantage of not having a huge peak and drop-off in the treble.

If you want bass, go for the Sennheisers, at whichever price point you want. I hear the AD700s (I would avoid the AD500s.) have a rather wide soundstage, with very good imaging. Not that the Sennheisers sound congested, it's just that they don't sound quite as wide.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geruvah /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think I'm leaning toward the HD-650's now. I can see, despite just still walking in the shallow end of the pool, the slogan, "Sorry about your wallet" came from. I think I should look at amps, too, since I know my budget with them.

The nice thing about amps is you can pick your price point more easily than with headphones. A Gilmore Lite is a great piece of gear. Compact, yet some of the best sound you'll find anywhere. However, $400 (Plus around $200 if you want to buy the now-discontinued power supply used.) is nothing to sneeze at.

On the other hand, you have Chinese manufacturers, and can get bang-for-the-buck units like the Zero DAC/Amp for $100-120 plus shipping, which, while not being high-end, are still a massive improvement.

 

[lucky]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milooz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks very much for the help, i appreciate. So the DT880 are better than the HD555 and 595. But do you think its worth the price difference ? I might find used DT880 on ebay... AD500 vs HD555 ? AD700 vs HD595 ? Which one would you choose on these as they are approximatly the same price and same type of cans ? Other advices are welcome

I've had the HD555 for a few weeks and just got the AD700. I would recommend them both. The AD700 is slightly more airy and the HD555 is slightly more intimate. Bass differences are slight, though I'd give the edge to the HD555. The HD555 has a more conventional fitting system, but the AD700 is slightly more comfortable. Overall, both are a good value.

 

[Randomness Personified]

O.K., so I'm a typical newb, and have a couple questions.

I've been looking at the Senn HD380 Pro's and wondered if anybody had tested them or how they compare to their price range.

Also just as a general question:

I'm looking for something around $200-$300.

I listen to literally almost every genre and want something that sounds good with everything.

I want a good bass punch but don't need to go overboard with it.

I want some sort of sound isolation, defiantly not totally open.

So like I said, the 380's looked pretty good from what I've seen, but would just like your opinions on them and if i can do better in my price range.

Thanks!

 

[sdfx]

Maybe some beyers for bass, rap, rock, movies and gaming. a900s for a more all around approach.

 

[Geruvah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randomness Personified /img/forum/go_quote.gif O.K., so I'm a typical newb, and have a couple questions. I've been looking at the Senn HD380 Pro's and wondered if anybody had tested them or how they compare to their price range. Also just as a general question: I'm looking for something around $200-$300. I listen to literally almost every genre and want something that sounds good with everything. I want a good bass punch but don't need to go overboard with it. I want some sort of sound isolation, defiantly not totally open. So like I said, the 380's looked pretty good from what I've seen, but would just like your opinions on them and if i can do better in my price range. Thanks!

Are you planning to go amped?