[jcn3]

all,

i love head-fi. as a music lover that's been out of the loop for a few years, it great to get back into the gear.

you guys are off to a great start. based on recommendations here, i've spent almost $700 so far (sr-71, hd600, cable), but need your advice (to spend more).

i feel good about the portable set-up (with ER4P/S), but I want to rebuild my home system. i used to have the sweetest system i've ever heard -- levinson 39 CD player (w/vol control) directly into levinson 331 feeding aerial acoustics 10t. unfortunately, my current home doesn't support a system of that scale.

i want to create a great, small two-channel system for a den/office. the pre-amp must do great with headphone, must also must serve as a super pre-amp for some monitor-type speakers.

the possible field is big and appears that there are great selections without going over say $1200. options include:

* HR Millet
* HR Desktop
* Woo Audio (2 or 3)
* Singlepower PPX3 (w/pre-out)

again, it must be a credible pre-amp. anyone with similar situation? what do you guys use or recommend?

 

[tkam]

I would add the Headamp GS-1 to your list.

 

[00940]

http://www.headamp.com/home_amps/gs1/index.htm

 

[replytoken]

This has the potential to be a more complicated situation than you might expect. Matching preamps and power amps is not just plug-and-play. You need to account for input and output impedances and sensitivities between the two pieces. If you have very efficient speakers, you need to worry about a high noise floor, especially with tube preamplification. My best advice is to proceed slowly and make sure you can return any piece of equuipment that does not meet your expectations, otherwise it can be an expensive proposition. I am currently in the middle of this exact situation, and while the headhphone amplifier portion is quite exceptional, the preamplifier function has been quite challenging, and I am still working on it as we speak.

 

[chadh]

I'd like to echo that last word of caution.

When I set up my system initially, I grabbed myself a Sugden Headmaster. It was a well regarded head-amp, and a more than competent three-input preamp, and looked gorgeous to boot. I also bought a pair of gainclone monoblocks that were very sensitive (they give 30 or 32db of gain), and moderately sensitive speakers (89db). What I found was that I just had too much gain in my system.

And I think this is likely to be a pretty ubiquitous problem if the pre/head-amp is going to be capable to driving high impedence headphones. To do so, it's likely to have relatively high gain. If that's the case, then you really need to think about an amp with lower gain, or a higher powered (i.e. high current) amp paired with lower sensitivity speakers.

Chad

 

[jcn3]

those decisions are down the road and can be adjusted based on the pre-amp decision.

granted that i haven't been down the path of some of the more sensitive components -- i've had experience with levinson, classe, melos amps, mesa amps, aerial acousics, paradigm, etc.). in my experience the gain questions that you are presenting are not typically big issues. all of these components worked together with differences, but not huges, differences. i agree that speaker and amp matching is important.

i'm asking this question because most pre-amps don't think much about the headphone front. and most headphone amps don't think much about being pre-amps and are designed accordingly (ie don't have the circuitry to put out a quality line level signal to an amp).

so what i'd like to know is whether there are great sounding headphone amps that DO have the guts to serve as a pre-amps?

thanks, again.

 

[replytoken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcn3 all of these components worked together with differences, but not huges, differences. i'm asking this question because most pre-amps don't think much about the headphone front. and most headphone amps don't think much about being pre-amps and are designed accordingly (ie don't have the circuitry to put out a quality line level signal to an amp). so what i'd like to know is whether there are great sounding headphone amps that DO have the guts to serve as a pre-amps? thanks, again.

Based on my experience, I personally beg to differ with the difference not being huge. Too much gain can be a major issue to resolve in a manner that does not negatively impact the quality of sound. If you have not had to address a high noise floor, you are in for quite any annoying challenge. And, the unit that I am using was specifically designed for use as both a headphone amplifier and as a preamplifier. The preamplifier was specifically designed with the input sensitivity of my power amplifier in mind, and I am still dealing with a high noise floor.

There are models out there that can pull duty on both fronts quite well, but I would imagine that they are not cheap. Good luck

 

[jcn3]

but i'm lucky enough to not have the amp and speakers to constrain me at this point.

anyone out there using a headphone amp and pre-amp as the same device.

i know the melos sha owners could be doing that . .

thanks,

jim

 

[SteveM324]

You may want to consider a very good integrated amp that also is an excellent headphone amp such as the Portal Panache. Its headphone jack is driven directly off the speaker outputs with only a safety feature in its path. It has a passive preamp that is impedance matched to the power amps input impedance. As a headphone amp I would consider it equal or better than some $1000 dedicated headphone amps. I've compared it to the Grace 901 (which I recently sold) and my RS Raptor. In my system, it bettered the 901 and doesn't give up much to the Raptor. As a speaker amp, it puts out 100W/ch into 8 ohms and doubles down to 200W/ch into 4 ohms. The fact that it double down gives you an idea of its power supply capability. Its received great reviews from several magazines as well if that means anything to you. I use the Panache to drive my K1000's off of the speaker outputs and I'm getting much more warmth and dynamics compared to dedicated headphone amps. Here's a link if you're interested: http://www.portalaudio.com/products.html

 

[jcn3]

i'll check that out -- i have heard good things about it as an integrated.

i think i would prefer separates -- it's just more fun to tweek with.

 

[mulveling]

I'm in a similar situation, been trying to find a used pre in the $1K range that can double as a 2nd headamp in my system. I've tried the following (Speaker rig linked in my sig, the Tannoys are 89db):

* Singlepower SDS, old chassis, no pre-outs: Gain way too high, even with 6db Harrison attenuators. The volume control can hardly get past 2 or 3 clicks before it's too loud. No remote, only one set of inputs. Needs a Y adaptor/cable to connect to the power amp. Blew a fuse in the PS Audio HCA2 when I hooked it up and turned on the poweramp (still don't know where the fault lies but I'm not risking it again). Would probably make a superb sounding preamp, as it's my reference headphone amp. Make sure you get preamp outs, extra inputs, and probably a gain switch if you buy a Singlepower for preamp use. I'd love to try an MPX3 or Supra with preamp outs one day.

* Sugden Headmaster: Gain is certainly high, but usable IME (it has a smooth volume pot). You'll need to do fine volume control by hand - the remote's volume increments are usually too large due to the high gain. The Harrison attenuators would probably fix this. Three inputs, preamp outs, but you can't switch inputs via the remote. Sound qaulity as both a preamp and headamp is solid; excellent for the price. Better than the PCA2 as a headamp, but lacks the ultimate refinement of the SDS. A real bargain if you can find it for $500.

* PS Audio PCA2: Decent sound quality as a preamp. Not too impressive as a headmp, but usable. Not quite yet decided on PCA2 vs Headmaster with regards to preamp SQ - early impressions are slightly in favor of the Headmaster. Interface is great - full remote control functionality. Gain is much lower than headamps - great for CDs but then you'll really need to crank it if watching DVD movies.

Currently I'm leaning towards the Sugden for sound quality, it also barely meets my needs in the area of features/usability.

Going to have a Melos SHA-Gold on the way soon - hopefully that will be perfect.

 

[drarthurwells]

BLAudio LP-1 is the smoothest, sweetest headphone amp (should have headphones of 100 ohm or greater impedance - works great with the Etymotic 4S though) in a solid state. It is a battery powered high end home system preamp which matches well with any speaker amp, and does well as a headphone amp with higher impedance headphones (true of any high end speaker preamp that has a headphone jack). It is my first choice as dual purpose preamp for a speaker amp and headphone amp. Click on the link below.

The Woo 3 has great tone body textural resolution, magical tonal quality, with a smooth and sweet sound in a tube headphone/preamp - a SET OTL design that some say beats any Singlepower of twice its price. 3D imaging (a must for me) with a tone focused clearly in precise spatial location surrounded by air, is a deficit - tones are soft edged and tend to blur together. Most people don't mind this. Have never used it as a preamp however.

 

[greenhorn]

Meier Audio Corda Prehead is also a pre-amp.

 

[jcn3]

looks like its well built and full featured.

anyone have a singlepower ppx3 with pre-out? it's not an expensive option -- does it work well? any notable limitations?

thanks!

 

[profsbg]

I have an mpx3 slam with preouts on order to use with wright sound 2a3 monoblocks and klipsch chorus 2 speakers (101 db). Like some of the other amps listed above (e.g. levinson) with 100K input impedance and relatively low sensitivity, I was actually concerned about having enough gain(!).

I also intend to use mpx3 with charlize tripath amp. Am matching mpx3 to wright monoblocks, since charlize gain can be backed off before amplification with existing resistor network or attenuator/pot which is directly on rca inputs. It seems like some audiofiles are finding tube preamp/tripath or gainclone amp a very nice combination, and some have mentioned using mpx3 as preamp favorably

Are the problems cited above that there was not enough low end control in preamp gain , or that at even at low end of preamp gain still had noise floor, or both? I would think if preamp gain could be reduced to unity or few db then well-designed tube preamp would not induce noise floor ( like a tube buffer, which is then used with passive attenuators and high gain amp). I should be up and running when receive the mpx3 in a few weeks and will give a report.