[SmettMark]

I want to clarify some things:
 
I don't want a grado simply because it lacks some of the things I'm looking for. I want a headphone which is good for rock and metal, but has a big soundstage and a decent amount of bass, a grado lacks these things. I won't be using it just for rock/metal, I will be using it for a couple of other genres as well such as pop. I will also be using these for gaming so I will need  big soundstage and a decent amount of bass impact for explosions and stuff. I heard the HE-400 is excellent for metal and rock, however I also heard that the HD-650 scales incredibly well with amping, so with a good amp it can be better than the HE400. People say that the Hd650 gets rid of it's veil with a good setup. I'm willing to buy a good setup for my headphones (Lyr+Bifrost or something even better), so considering that, which will be better for rock and metal? I'm also looking for good mids, I absolutely love a good mid range. Which one do you guys recommend? The only meatl band I listen to is metallica and the rock bands I listen to are nirvana, ACDC, audioslave, green day, etc.   

 

[jerg]

HE400 > HD650 in terms of instrument separation.
 
HD650 > HE400 in terms of overall smoothness of response.
 
Both are great in terms of timbre.
 
HE400 is more laidback, HD650 is more forward.
 
HE400 has a more flat and extended bass, HD650 has a more rounded and rolled-off bass.
 
HE400 has a sparkly treble, HD650 has a relatively more smooth rolled-off treble.
 
Both are moderate in terms of soundstage and great in terms of imaging.
 
 
Also, people don't seem to realize that HE400s scales incredibly well with amping too, the only real difference is that it is also more forgiving when the amping is entry-level, relative to HD650. The reason why "HD650's amp scaling capabilities" is so emphasized is BECAUSE it sounds poor out of low grade amping.
 
 
 
So make your judgement based on that. Really there is no wrong choice, only preference.

 

[SmettMark]

Quote:

HE400 is more laidback, HD650 is more forward.

That's really surprising, many people call the HD650 veiled and boring while a lot of people told me the HE400 was engaging and exciting.
 
Anyway thanks for the comparison, they both seem like great cans, In just hope the HD650 isn't as boring as people say it is in case I get it. To be honest, it doesn't sound boring at all, good mids and a non fatiguing treble sounds exciting since the treble will allow me to listen at slighly higher volumes thus letting me get the most out of the mids. Something boring to me would be something with a harsh treble which would force me to listen to lower volumes making the mids sound distant.

 

[TMRaven]

I never got the criticism of HD650 being associated with a veil.  It was the exact opposite when I listened to it.  Very engaging mids, and the treble is not veiled at all.  The sub-bass is lacking.

 

[SmettMark]

Quote:

I never got the criticism of HD650 being associated with a veil.  It was the exact opposite when I listened to it.  Very engaging mids, and the treble is not veiled at all.  The sub-bass is lacking.

I think it depends on the amp. A better amp seems to get rid of the veil from what I've read. In your opinion, do you think it would be a good choice for me?

 

[MaximumSandvich]

You might want to take a look at the beyerdynamic DT990s, 250 or 600 ohm, premium or pro doesn't matter all that much. Those things have amazing (not distorted, check out a freq chart) bass and the vocals (male and female) sound incredible.
 
I can verify that they are unmatched (in anything I've heard) for Nightwish, Rammstein, and japanese Touhou bands!

 

[jerg]

Quote:

That's really surprising, many people call the HD650 veiled and boring while a lot of people told me the HE400 was engaging and exciting.
 
Anyway thanks for the comparison, they both seem like great cans, In just hope the HD650 isn't as boring as people say it is in case I get it. To be honest, it doesn't sound boring at all, good mids and a non fatiguing treble sounds exciting since the treble will allow me to listen at slighly higher volumes thus letting me get the most out of the mids. Something boring to me would be something with a harsh treble which would force me to listen to lower volumes making the mids sound distant.

 
Not entirely correct. HD650s being more forward, means they have more upper mids and lower treble volume, while HE400s have less of those. Both have approx equal midrange volume outside of that range of frequencies. For me, a forward aggressive upper midrange / lower treble is more fatiguing at higher volumes.

 

[TMRaven]

Quote:

I think it depends on the amp. A better amp seems to get rid of the veil from what I've read. In your opinion, do you think it would be a good choice for me?

 
It's a tough call.  The HD650's definitely have a more upfront upper midrange response than the HE-400's meaning they really catch the texture and bite of electric guitars.  Paired with a deliberately warm amp, they might have the same mid-bass impact as the HE-400, but I can't be sure.  The two amps I used with it were more on the neutral side.
 
I think the HE-400 will give you better immersion for explosions in gaming though, but their weight might turn you off for long gaming sessions.
 
 
If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the HD650.

 

[SmettMark]

Quote:

 
It's a tough call.  The HD650's definitely have a more upfront upper midrange response than the HE-400's meaning they really catch the texture and bite of electric guitars.  Paired with a deliberately warm amp, they might have the same mid-bass impact as the HE-400, but I can't be sure.  The two amps I used with it were more on the neutral side.
 
I think the HE-400 will give you better immersion for explosions in gaming though, but their weight might turn you off for long gaming sessions.
 
 
If I were a betting man, I'd put my money on the HD650.

Do you think the lyr+Bifrost would be a god setup fot the HD650?

 

[jwusoccer]

Quote:

That's really surprising, many people call the HD650 veiled and boring while a lot of people told me the HE400 was engaging and exciting.
 
Anyway thanks for the comparison, they both seem like great cans, In just hope the HD650 isn't as boring as people say it is in case I get it. To be honest, it doesn't sound boring at all, good mids and a non fatiguing treble sounds exciting since the treble will allow me to listen at slighly higher volumes thus letting me get the most out of the mids. Something boring to me would be something with a harsh treble which would force me to listen to lower volumes making the mids sound distant.

It definitely has a lot to do with the amp. Before i got my lyr, i thought there was a bit of a veil when i drove them out of my e17. Now that i have the lyr, everything that i thought was bad about the hd650 is fixed, apart from the lack of sub bass.

 

[RushNerd]

Covered this comparison here http://www.head-fi.org/t/629768/hd650-vs-he-400-vs-ah-d5000-vs-mad-dogs-t50rp-reviewed
 
For rock and guitars in general the 650 is smoother and soundstage is closer to your head, the 400 is more balanced and separated with brighter or more treble information. It's hard to pick between them, depends how you want it presented to you. I prefer the more open accurate approach of the 400's.

 

[MattTCG]

The two headphones are actually more similar than different. The he400 has more sub bass and the hd650 has more mid bass. The lyr and the hd650 is a special combination!!

 

[RushNerd]

Quote:

You might want to take a look at the beyerdynamic DT990s, 250 or 600 ohm, premium or pro doesn't matter all that much. Those things have amazing (not distorted, check out a freq chart) bass and the vocals (male and female) sound incredible.
 
I can verify that they are unmatched (in anything I've heard) for Nightwish, Rammstein, and japanese Touhou bands!

I was really bored with my 990 600 ohm, to be fair I only had the essence ST to amp them, but even then it could have been a lot better. With a 3+Db gain on the 4K EQ band, Rammstein is the best i've ever heard it on the he-400's (and I've heard them out of everything, their guitar soundwall is hard to get right.) it fairs very well with "power metal" like Avantasia because of the detail and separation.