[preproman]

I have no idea about the m-stage but the HE-500 on the F1J and the HD800 on the GS-X mk2.  The win goes to the HD800.  Or both headphones on the GS-X mk2 the win still goes to the HD800

 

[StanD]

  OK, the HE-6 and HE-500 are in same league if they are driven by a regular headphones amp.  

That's a silly statement as the HE-6 is a black hole for energy and can't be driven easily. That has nothing to do with sound quality.

 

[M-13]

  I have no idea about the m-stage but the HE-500 on the F1J and the HD800 on the GS-X mk2.  The win goes to the HD800.  Or both headphones on the GS-X mk2 the win still goes to the HD800

I sort of expected that... but is the margin of victory so huge that it's laughable to compare the HE-500? Just wondering. And what genre? Could the HE-500 be better for pop? or some such non-audiophile music?

 

[M-13]

  That's a silly statement as the HE-6 is a black hole for energy and can't be driven easily. That has nothing to do with sound quality.

I believe he was trying to be witty. LOL.

 

[StanD]

  What I notice on head-fi is that people with the same equipment tend to agree on sonic impressions and people who don't tend to argue a lot. I would say give Austin the benefit of the doubt if you haven't heard the StingRay Amp + his source. Same with Koiloco. Human ears/perception is usually about the same, nobody has special hearing, although a lot of ego maniacs on Head-Fi. want to believe that only their ears are truly golden or titanium or whatever title they want to bestow upon themselves.
 
I think this is why it helps when you state your entire chain and the length of experience with the HD800/HE-500. If you're driving them both from OTL amp then HD800 for the win, and if both on speaker taps, then the HE-500 for the win. I think it gets interesting when you have two seperate amps to optimize both. Like I would love to hear the HE-500 on Preproman's First Watt vs. HD800 on something humble like the m-stage and see who comes out on top of that battle.
 
Another scenerio would be to drive both of a nice First Watt amp. Since the amp is neutral and very transparent of the source the HD800 should destroy the HE-500 if they're not even comparable. I would then ask what genre of music are you listening to? Can the HE-500 can come out on top in any scenerio with any genre? If so why not compare them?

I really like the HD800, but it won't destroy the HE-500. Although I have spent time listening to the HD800, feel free to send yours to me for an extensive evaluation. It expect that it shouldn't take more than just a few years. 

By the way the speaker taps on a DC coupled SS amp is Output TransformerLess as opposed to the speaker taps on a tube power amp which will have an output transformer.

 

[StanD]

 
I believe he was trying to be witty. LOL.

In an odd way. Me too in an odd way. 

 

[preproman]

  That's a silly statement as the HE-6 is a black hole for energy and can't be driven easily. That has nothing to do with sound quality.

huh?  It has a lot to do with SQ...

 

[Austin Morrow]

I really like the HD800, but it won't destroy the HE-500. Although I have spent time listening to the HD800, feel free to send yours to me for an extensive evaluation. It expect that it shouldn't take more than just a few years. :happy_face1:
By the way the speaker taps on a DC coupled SS amp is Output TransformerLess as opposed to the speaker taps on a tube power amp which will have an output transformer.

Try it. I have a feeling you'll find that the HD800 is not the mighty T-Rex as and the HE-500 is not the puny raptor, more so, the HD800 is the T-Rex and the HE-500 is the Giganotosaurus, so to speak. Extremely comparable. Countless hours of listening and different amplification show, at least for me, that the reason the HD800 is supposedly a sonic league above the HE-500 is due to three things. Again, this is opinionated, and I would be saying the same thing for any other high-end comparison.

1. There's a slight difference. But, it's blown way out proportion. Also known as hyperbole.

2. The HD800 is twice the price of the HE-500, and the minute you lay down the cash for an HD800, you have a bias and a little voice that goes on inside your head that says: "Since the HD800 is twice the price of the HE-500, it must have double the sonic capabilities, therefore it does!" Which, in my opinion, is not true to life. Same for the HE-6.

3. Psychology. Our mind is capable of seeing and feeling many things that really aren't there. And I believe the "sonic league differences" you hear between the two are really just mind tricks.

Oh, and just to add. I try to find the best headphones that fit me, I don't care about finding the Summit end of audio or anything like that. I was loaned the HD800, and the HE-6 + Stingray from a friend who's more Into speakers, but likes headphones as well. And I traded to get the HE-500 a while ago, because I compared all three and the HE-500 came out on top. No money laid down, no pre-bias, IMHO.

 

[StanD]

Try it. I have a feeling you'll find that the HD800 is not the mighty T-Rex as and the HE-500 is not the puny raptor, more so, the HD800 is the T-Rex and the HE-500 is the Giganotosaurus, so to speak. Extremely comparable. Countless hours of listening and different amplification show, at least for me, that the reason the HD800 is supposedly a sonic league above the HE-500 is due to three things. Again, this is opinionated, and I would be saying the same thing for any other high-end comparison.

1. There's a slight difference. But, it's blown way out proportion. Also known as hyperbole.

2. The HD800 is twice the price of the HE-500, and the minute you lay down the cash for an HD800, you have a bias and a little voice that goes on inside your head that says: "Since the HD800 is twice the price of the HE-500, it must have double the sonic capabilities, therefore it does!" Which, in my opinion, is not true to life. Same for the HE-6.

3. Psychology. Our mind is capable of seeing and feeling many things that really aren't there. And I believe the "sonic league differences" you hear between the two are really just mind tricks.

Oh, and just to add. I try to find the best headphones that fit me, I don't care about finding the Summit end of audio or anything like that. I was loaned the HD800, and the HE-6 + Stingray from a friend who's more Into speakers, but likes headphones as well. And I traded to get the HE-500 a while ago, because I compared all three and the HE-500 came out on top. No money laid down, no pre-bias, IMHO.

I've listened quite a bit to the HD800 and I agree it is not vastly superior to the HE-500, although it has a flatter treble. I own an HE-500 and HD600. All three are reasonably close, not vastly different. We're not talking Bose and Beats (yuck).
I care not for ether the HD650 or HD700, however, I do like the HD800's but IMO the price is a bit excessive.
You can tell by my signature that I am a strong believer in your point #3. I believe the frenzy over amps and cables lay heavily in that camp. I get a good giggle over power cords and USB cables bringing out the treble in their cans. Lets not even get into silver....

 

[StanD]

  That's a silly statement as the HE-6 is a black hole for energy and can't be driven easily. That has nothing to do with sound quality.

 
 

  huh?  It has a lot to do with SQ...

 
Being low effiiciency or low sensitivity has nothing to do with sound quality. It has to do with larger power requirements (Watts) to drive the cans to acceptable listening levels and provide enough headroom.

 

[Austin Morrow]

Exactly as Stan says.

Science shows us how it works. *wink wink*

 

[preproman]

  OK, the HE-6 and HE-500 are in same league if they are driven by a regular headphones amp.  

 

  That's a silly statement as the HE-6 is a black hole for energy and can't be driven easily. That has nothing to do with sound quality.
 

 
 
Quote:

  Being low effiiciency or low sensitivity has nothing to do with sound quality. It has to do with larger power requirements (Watts) to drive the cans to acceptable listening levels and provide enough headroom.
 
 

 
 
Please point out to me where his statement says anything about low effiiciency or low sensitivity having something to do with sound quality?

  
 
He simply said they sound very close to the same on a headphone amp.  I agree with his statement 100%.  Where they start to differ is on good quality higher powered speaker amps.  The HE-500 and HE-400 does not scale high at all and does not need to be used on a speaker amp.  The HD800, HE-6, HE-5, HE-5LE and the HE-4 all scale higher than the HE-500 / HE-400 no question.  All the said Hifimans HE-6, HE-5, HE-4 HE-5LE will benefit from speaker amps.
 
The question is have you heard the HE-6 on multiple headphone and speaker amps?  It seems the Stingray is the only amp that's been heard. 

 

[StanD]

   
 
Please point out to me where his statement says anything about low effiiciency or low sensitivity having something to do with sound quality?

  
 
He simply said they sound very close to the same on a headphone amp.  I agree with his statement 100%.  Where they start to differ is on good quality higher powered speaker amps.  The HE-500 and HE-400 does not scale high at all and does not need to be used on a speaker amp.  The HD800, HE-6, HE-5, HE-5LE and the HE-4 all scale higher than the HE-500 / HE-400 no question.  All the said Hifimans HE-6, HE-5, HE-4 HE-5LE will benefit from speaker amps.
 
The question is have you heard the HE-6 on multiple headphone and speaker amps?  It seems the Stingray is the only amp that's been heard. 

He said, "OK, the HE-6 and HE-500 are in same league if they are driven by a regular headphones amp." If you do that the HE-6 should come out very low in volume and sound unimpressive due not only to low volume but the way we perceive bass and treble at low volume. The HE-500 does not need to scale well by using a speaker amp whereas the cans you mention require large amounts of power in order not to sound bad and be misleading as to what they really sound like. IMO the term scaling is often misused to mean vastly superior.

 

[Austin Morrow]

Just putting in quotes from the "Battle of the Flagships" article. Notice how he says "very close" and "lacks just a hint." That doesn't sound like "A sonic league over one another."

"NEUTRAL: The HE-500 offers a very neutral tonal balance. All across the board, I do not notice any peaks that compromise the tonal balance. When compared directly against the HE-6, I feel that the HE-500's sound presentation lacks just a hint of air and dynamics, but many may prefer its less aggressive style."

"IMAGING: The HE-500 demonstrates remarkable imaging capabilities, even if not quite as impressive as the HE-6's. I feel as though the HE-6 offers a quicker decay which improves the three-dimensionality of the instruments, but the HE-500 is very close in this regard."

 

[StanD]

Just putting in quotes from the "Battle of the Flagships" article. Notice how he says "very close" and "lacks just a hint." That doesn't sound like "A sonic league over one another."

"NEUTRAL: The HE-500 offers a very neutral tonal balance. All across the board, I do not notice any peaks that compromise the tonal balance. When compared directly against the HE-6, I feel that the HE-500's sound presentation lacks just a hint of air and dynamics, but many may prefer its less aggressive style."

"IMAGING: The HE-500 demonstrates remarkable imaging capabilities, even if not quite as impressive as the HE-6's. I feel as though the HE-6 offers a quicker decay which improves the three-dimensionality of the instruments, but the HE-500 is very close in this regard."

Who's on first, What's on second? It's getting hard to tell who said what and when. It's refreshing to hear the occasional nonexagerative comparison.