HD800 being "picky" with amps myth
Nov 5, 2014 at 7:18 PM Post #301 of 323
don't know about this particular product, but I've seen a few times presumably knowledgeable people saying that physical vibrations were improving the bass "enjoyment". I think someone on a RMAF video(he's one of sean olive old work buddy... I'm ashamed not to remember his name as he deserves at least that much) even said it didn't really have to be at the right frequency for people to favor the sound with vibration to the one without.
if you go for it, please come back to tell us all about the experience.


I definitely will! I'm really looking forward to giving this (the subpac) a try with my gear. Can't wait, but it should take around another month for me to get it. I will be sure to write a review with my sources because this seems like a very innovative product and I think a ton of people may be delighted to hear what it can do. :)
 
Nov 10, 2014 at 3:40 AM Post #302 of 323
   
Those questions cover a WHOLE bunch of territory, enough so that it would take me many hours of writing to explain and describe what my answers would be.
 
And you are perfectly free to ignore my posts etc., if what I present simply doesn’t work for you.  :thumb
 
Because if it’s proof you are looking for all I can provide you with is data, ideas, comments, experiments to consider and try for yourself etc.
But proof is something that is only achievable by you, for yourself.
 
And might I add that it is “Plain old subjective impressions” that is at the heart of listening to music.  When it comes down to enjoying music it is ALL based upon a subjective, personal, experience based metric of what is and isn’t ‘good’ (and a whole bunch more of our ‘specialized’ words).
 
IOW listening and enjoying music is a ‘real time’ event, one in which we pursue because it captures then grabs our full attention.  And while we are engrossed and ‘sucked into’ the music, words can sometimes be held at bay for a more fully engaging experience.
 
Words, definitions, descriptions, facts, etc., result as a consequence of our experiencing our chosen real time event in an effort to try and convey to others what we hear.  These attempts to put into words what is being experienced will forever play catch up, as we continue to try and describe WHAT we hear instead of THAT we hear something.
 
But to give you a condensed answer to what I hear as the heart of your questions, would be thus;
We as hobbyists are seeking just the right combination of components to meet our needs, wants, desires all based upon what we know and have previously experienced.  And every once in a while we may get a chance to experience something beyond our expectations.  When this happens we get to expand what we would like to achieve to include this new capability that we now know is possible and is desirable.  We do this in our ongoing attempts to improve or explore new aspects of enjoyment, while listening to music.
 
We are the only ones who can do this, for ourselves, for the obvious reasons.
 
So trying to answer “What makes a component perform so differently in one system as opposed to another? How does this relate to the specs?” is something only you can determine for yourself, on your system.
Other folks (like myself) can offer up our observations of what we have learned along the way, for those who might find portions useful or helpful in learning more about, or perhaps just in trying to describe, what we hear.
And yes, I could tie in the specs of my amp, (it’s power bandwidth is 2Hz to 400KHz) with the sonic impact it has on my headphones in my system, but that will have little to no bearing on what you would experience, again for the obvious reasons.  
But in offering up some observations and a small experiment, perhaps a bit of insight can be gained?
 
And lastly this is ALL subjective based, because that’s what listening to music is, a subjective experience.
 
JJ

+1.  Also, we all don't have the luxury of listening to whole headphone systems due to lack of dealers, very long distance travel to big meets and local meets that don't feature the system you want.  In my case, I bought a USB Dac and Mac that I heard at a show and a dealers, but with other equipment.  I later replaced my existing headphone amp with a DNA stratus which simply was not available in my country, or at the time, Europe.  This system sounded outstanding on an older pair of pre-flagship headphones, so i thought i would upgrade.  I subsequently heard the HD800 at a show in the US (but no Stratus) and read many glowing comments about the combination on head-fi.  I bought it and did not like the sound.  I had 4 audio-lovers and my dealer listen to my system.  They also did not like the sound. I gave the HD800 to my dealer and he sold them, but before he did, he had me listen to them on the newest Sennheiser headphone amp.  They sounded excellent.  C'est la vie.
 
In hindsight, it is certainly possible that I could have proceeded more systematically in my headphone search.  The point is that in my system to my ears and brain, the HD800s were not a good match.  That is a fact.  No amount of measurement can change that fact.  
 
Interestingly, i did buy another set of headphones that i did not previously like on my old headphone amp, but enjoyed very much in my new system.  That is also fact. 
 
Testing is vital to producing high quality audio equipment.  Some mfrs. of audio equipment also use focus groups to find out what consumers like, which i neither endorse nor condemn.  But the final test rests with the buyer. 
 
Nov 11, 2014 at 6:32 AM Post #303 of 323
I love my HD800s which I am running from an Oppo HA-1 or Corda Concerto. They are nearly perfect for classical music which I listen to almost exclusively. My only caveat is the much discussed problem with the slightly too prominent treble. I am sceptical about cables and amplifiers really making such a difference, but am willing to be convinced. My 2 amps seem to do an excellent job of driving the HD800s. I do slightly prefer the HA-1, but I not sure I could tell the difference blindfolded. Nevertheless, I'm curious whether you people using valve/tube amps are convinced that the too "hot" treble can be tamed? The DNA Stratus does look lovely, but probably little chance for me to audition here in Denmark)-:!
 
Nov 11, 2014 at 10:31 AM Post #304 of 323
A fellow Danish hd800 owner here :)
Can't help you much, though. Got my hd800s anax 2.0 modded.
Do you know hoved-fi.dk?
 
Nov 11, 2014 at 9:46 PM Post #305 of 323
  I love my HD800s which I am running from an Oppo HA-1 or Corda Concerto. They are nearly perfect for classical music which I listen to almost exclusively. My only caveat is the much discussed problem with the slightly too prominent treble. I am sceptical about cables and amplifiers really making such a difference, but am willing to be convinced. My 2 amps seem to do an excellent job of driving the HD800s. I do slightly prefer the HA-1, but I not sure I could tell the difference blindfolded. Nevertheless, I'm curious whether you people using valve/tube amps are convinced that the too "hot" treble can be tamed? The DNA Stratus does look lovely, but probably little chance for me to audition here in Denmark)-:!


Use an equalizer instead. It can be tailored to your tastes, it'll actually make a difference, and software solutions are free.
 
The Anax mod appears to do a lot of good too, if you prefer a physical adjustment.
 
Nov 11, 2014 at 10:44 PM Post #306 of 323
 
Use an equalizer instead. It can be tailored to your tastes, it'll actually make a difference, and software solutions are free.
 
The Anax mod appears to do a lot of good too, if you prefer a physical adjustment.

The 'Screech' can be knocked down with the anax mod (or variations i.e. Tyll's published DIY 'kit' template.) by quite a bit, enough so that you can reach the level of 're-discover your music, again', which I always enjoy.
 
JJ 
 
Nov 12, 2014 at 12:27 AM Post #307 of 323
 
Use an equalizer instead. It can be tailored to your tastes, it'll actually make a difference, and software solutions are free.
 
The Anax mod appears to do a lot of good too, if you prefer a physical adjustment.

I think EQ is underused but I think it's hard to use. It's easy to say "just do what sounds best", but that's easier said than done. (And that's after avoiding the very common mistake of boosting frequencies far above 0db causing distortion).
 
Dec 1, 2014 at 1:48 AM Post #308 of 323
Using my hd800 with fiio e07k here. Sound good but not enough power, so i buy another fiio product e10k and do a set up pc ---> e10k ----> e07k ---> hd800. Sound just fine for me. I have tried hd800 with wa7, wa6se, marantz as palyer + hugo + wa6, and other high end amp, sound just a little bit difference. Yes it can make the soundstage bigger, more detail here and there, but the difference is not that enormous so i can not justify my self to spend thousands dollars to get those high end amp. That's my opinion, maybe i'm not that audiofile afterall
 
Jan 19, 2015 at 12:52 AM Post #310 of 323
Jan 19, 2015 at 4:28 AM Post #311 of 323
I was checking the HD800 as a reference headphone. (as i have no preference in music and want to hear things as is)
but now i am not even sure if it is the right choice.
and i still don't know which should it be paired with (DAC/Soundcard, Soundcard-to-DAC, AMP).
I do understand the term bottleneck and also do understand that a chain is as strong as its weakest link but i don't know which should be considered weak (inaudible).

Side question : When will i be able to create a topic as i want to know what is sound and how should it be represented as data?
 
Jan 19, 2015 at 6:16 AM Post #312 of 323
If you can do some reading on the subject and ask some more specific questions it is easier to help.. 
 
Jan 19, 2015 at 8:57 AM Post #313 of 323
  If you can do some reading on the subject and ask some more specific questions it is easier to help.. 

 
Yup.
I have done the reading and that was the result.
 
Quote:
  After trying to read this..
I am even more confused now :frowning2:

 
 
The question before i read this was "Which amp and dac should i use with the HD800?"
The new questions that come up after reading are
 
  • Is the HD800 actually (the most) neutral and accurate?
  • Is the sibilance peak issue solvable without sacrificing HD800's neutrality?
  • What does it mean to have more "detailed" sound and separation in terms of specs?
 
Jan 19, 2015 at 11:34 AM Post #314 of 323
At this price range, it is a matter of understanding your preferences first to choose the headphone most neutral to your ears. There isn't any industry standards saying what a neutral headphone should sound like.
 
Jan 19, 2015 at 12:43 PM Post #315 of 323
Detailed sound and separation generally means low distortion and extended treble in terms of specs.
 

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