[drez]

Power output and peaks are the loud passages but dynamic contrast also requires to do soft or delicate passages.  IIRC not enough power should show as clipping as noted by @Head Injury, but I guess question is if actually power is a red herring and that other factors of the more powerful amplifiers are causing the perceived difference in dynamic contrast (which is probably more likely).  Also possibly lack of volume matching for the way most of us compare amplifiers.
 
Could definitely be possible that HD800 being easier to drive has something to do with it, but IME the other headphones which did not clip still did not have this perceived ability of dynamic contrast compared to the HD800.  Almost definitely power output itself is not the cause.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/630522/would-lack-of-amp-power-causes-degradation-to-sound-quality-for-high-impedance-headphones

 

[castleofargh]

 

 a cable would need to be close to 10ohm to make about 0.1db variation in the signature of a hd800. crosstalk would need to be massive to change the headstage, so it's a little scary to imagine how messed up those cables must be(on purpose) to sound different from one another.
with a TOTL headphone and apparently a real nice amp below 1ohm, I wouldn't start using weird cables that do everything worst than a monoprice. but that's me.

also I dig your signature, the "hydrogen atom" part probably shows best how expert the guy who said that could have been.

If I mis translated my statements in my signature, it doesn't disprove the fact of it being taught in college textbooks,

And to spout off some techical specs is very naive when so much more is at play.

Soundstage can be increased noticeably on balanced setups with most headphones,
and quotes on resistance does not cover impedance and non linear response to frequency of any dynamic driver, and how that change in load affects the particular demand on an amp which may be either current (SS) or voltage driven (tubes).
So alot more than what meets the eye in the real world.

talking about an atom hitting the eardrum that's like saying a fish can perceive a drop of water with its skin, when it's already swimming in it at all time. the air pressure makes for a certain density of atoms in the air, so sure pressure variation could be badly shortcut as atomes hitting the eardrum. and from there, well why not say that just one would make a measurable difference and let's not care that it's an impossible situation and that the value would be a joke in an ocean of noise. why not a guy in space without a suit with his ear stuck to a cyclotron? that would do. now we can use it to make a quote that will say whatever we like.
it made me think about a teacher when I was young who kept saying that we were breathing farts from napoleon because gas occupies all the available space... if we go far enough that one hydrogen atom hitting the eardrum might just be napoleon's.

just to say there is a limit to how far we can stretch an idea before its reality is lost.
 
 
me talking about 0.1db change from something close to 10ohm isn't some general quote on cable. I made an estimation based on the hd800 FR and impedance response graphs. it's simplified because I take 1V to make calculus easy but it's still more than precise enough to know if we're talking 0.1db or 1db. I use this to estimate possible variations from sources impedance on future possible purchases as I like to have sony DAPs and they are usually nowhere close to 1ohm.
so yeah there is more to it than quotes on resistance. it took some time to do it, but I happen to have done it for the hd800 a few months back and I just opened my excel file and tried a few source impedance values to see what was needed for 0.1db variation (as less is really meaningless) before answering you.
 
you're also wrong about current/ss, voltage/tube. the vast majority of SS audio amps happen to be voltage amps. oh well I guess "it's all in my mind".

 

[stv014]

To deny ones own ears is like denying ones own eyes or ones own nose.
You have your senses why would you deny or single out only your ears as faulty?

 
In fact, vision can be unreliable, too, you can see several examples here. Note how these illusions often still work even when you already know about them, and are trying to force yourself to ignore the effect. Another well known effect (this time for hearing), with YouTube links to try it yourself, is described here. If you are still confident that sighted listening is a reliable way of assessing sound quality, this article and this one might be worth reading.

 

Yes it is known that placibo can play a part., but Placibo only goes so far and is not consistent.

 
If you already know there is a problem with naively trusting your hearing under (sighted) conditions where it is easily affected by bias, why brush it aside as if the issue did not exist, or did not matter ?

 

[stv014]

  Power output and peaks are the loud passages but dynamic contrast also requires to do soft or delicate passages.  IIRC not enough power should show as clipping as noted by @Head Injury, but I guess question is if actually power is a red herring and that other factors of the more powerful amplifiers are causing the perceived difference in dynamic contrast (which is probably more likely).

 
First, we need a clear definition of what dynamic contrast is for audio (rather than monitors, where it is a popularly marketed, albeit often not particularly relevant spec), as it seems to be one of those audiophile invented terms like PRaT. The most common reason why amplifiers make a clearly audible difference to dynamics under uncontrolled conditions is indeed unmatched levels, as the absolute level is known to affect how sound is perceived. If an amplifier does have audibly bad quality at quiet passages, it is most likely because of too high noise (e.g. sensitive headphones driven by a high gain tube amp), or sometimes crossover distortion, neither of which are too difficult to avoid with competent design.

 

[Maxx134]

Knowing when to stop is the best thing I can do for you guys.

All these viewpoints have credence, yet we have to admit that explanations thus far in this thread can only go so far in covering what is actually happening, in this case, with the hd800..

Most of us come from technical backgrounds,
Yet we cannot avoid and dissmiss the reality that there is already a general consensus,
of what the overall impression of any headphone is,
developed over time and over many users combined in a given thread...

So I say good luck on each member's journey in reaching that musical bliss.
In which case you can actually find at every level.

But don't be surprised along that journey to have any rigid technical belief system shaken.
Not because it is wrong,
But because it is simply more complex than first observed. .

Also a tip is to stick with what works(musicality) for longer periods while saving,
to try and skip over as much as possible most mid tier equipment,
so as to have more savings to approach your own personal goals of "end game" level gear..

Final note is to trust your ears.
If it sounds good to you,
That's what matters most.

Everyone has a preference for a different signature so no can or equipment is best for everyone.
Cheers.

 

[limpidglitch]

   
In fact, vision can be unreliable, too…

 

 

[dclaz]

  Going to keep this brief because it's bed time:
 
More power doesn't increase dynamic range unless you don't have enough power and you're clipping peaks. The dynamic range is already baked into the recording. It's pretty easy to get enough volume out of the HD800, it's an easier load than the K701 for example. Power is not an issue. And no, more power than needed doesn't make the sound better.
 
If you've ever seen a half-decent magician at work, you'd realize how silly it is to assume any of our senses are infallible.
 
Or, do you actually believe in magic?

This. It is so easy to fool people, and worse people often fool themselves. We are LOADED with cognitive bias. A lot of people here would do very well by reading Daniel Kahneman's 'Thinking Fast and Thinking Slow' and Dan Ariely's 'Predictably Irrational'. 

 

[ThePrince425]

This. It is so easy to fool people, and worse people often fool themselves. We are LOADED with cognitive bias. A lot of people here would do very well by reading Daniel Kahneman's 'Thinking Fast and Thinking Slow' and Dan Ariely's 'Predictably Irrational'. 

Read and loved the latter. Fascinating insights and very much applicable, but truth be told, it was very exhausting always being conscious of a situation and forcing a 'rationale' response, as if there was this internal battle against a hardwired, evolved over eons tendency however flawed it may be. Can't imagine ever enjoying music like that.

 

[Head Injury]

Read and loved the latter. Fascinating insights and very much applicable, but truth be told, it was very exhausting always being conscious of a situation and forcing a 'rationale' response, as if there was this internal battle against a hardwired, evolved over eons tendency however flawed it may be. Can't imagine ever enjoying music like that.

Who says you can't enjoy music? Being objective and realistic doesn't have to impact music, it will just save you a lot of money and stress over the gear.
 
I can't imagine enjoy music any other way these days, worrying if my amp is synergizing with my headphones, wondering if a change of opamps will help, trying to fix imbalances in the headphone with a new DAC, shopping for cables. It's nice to know my audio chain is as good as it will ever need to be, at least up to the headphones.

 

[ThePrince425]

 
Who says you can't enjoy music? Being objective and realistic doesn't have to impact music, it will just save you a lot of money and stress over the gear.
 
I can't imagine enjoy music any other way these days, worrying if my amp is synergizing with my headphones, wondering if a change of opamps will help, trying to fix imbalances in the headphone with a new DAC, shopping for cables. It's nice to know my audio chain is as good as it will ever need to be, at least up to the headphones.

To be clear, I had meant that 'I can't imagine enjoying music' if I needed to be conscious and analytical of what equipment I have, of how the specs and performance in terms of incremental value it brings to the chain. BUT I totally respect if someone actually does. An analogy would say be Jazz as a music form. Jazz was born from simple roots, an eccentric exploration of blues and folk manifested into a much more sophisticated form. It's weird nuances, tempo and turns of keys are extremely enjoyable and at just a simple listen, it's hard to understand why we enjoy it when it is of such contrast to conventional and modern established chord progressions, harmonisations and melody. Going into detail are we then able to appreciate the relationships of dissonance and accidentals. Likewise with gear, and with relevance to the myth of HD800 being picky, some would resolve simply enjoying the setup without attempting a full understanding of the mechanisms behind the chain (the ignorance is bliss group), while some enjoy pursuing a deeper appreciation for the technology. Apologies if I have offended anyone, not here to challenge an idea. Just that this thread fascinated me as I slowly try to view this hobby from different vantages and approaches.

 

[dclaz]

Indeed. Being more aware of the science behind audio and the way we hear things has let me REALLY sit back and enjoy music instead of endlessly pursuing better gear. I now know that any more I spend than I have (or want to) is extremely unlikely to benefit me.

 

[castleofargh]

stop lying, we all know people in the sound science section only have playlists of test tones and shaped noise. you fool nobody!!!!
 

 

[ThePrince425]

  stop lying, we all know people in the sound science section only have playlists of test tones and shaped noise. you fool nobody!!!!
 

LOL! There are those who are aroused by inanimate objects, so I'm sure there will be those who are soothed by pink noise

 

[castleofargh]

 

  stop lying, we all know people in the sound science section only have playlists of test tones and shaped noise. you fool nobody!!!!
 

LOL! There are those who are aroused by inanimate objects, so I'm sure there will be those who are soothed by pink noise

joke aside I did use pink noise to sleep in crappy and overly noisy hotels my company would rent for me a few years back(nothing was cheap enough when they were the ones paying the bill).
so I must confess I did listen to pink noise for hours and was pleased about it ^_^.

 

[Dark_wizzie]

  LOL! There are those who are aroused by inanimate objects, so I'm sure there will be those who are soothed by pink noise

You are making me all hot and bothered.