[volted]

Firstly, Hello everyone! I am new to high end audio, but think I am catching the bug! So apologies for any misuse of terms or lack of explaining myself. After having loved my HD515s for many hours, the limitations became clear, and I am now the proud owner of a set of HD650 cans. Massively impressed with the clarity, balance and tone (though with stock cables into my PC :S ). Beautiful.
 
After breaking in the tightness I could wear them for hours. The only 'issue' I have (and it may not be a real issue) is that the soundstage seems a little tight. FLACs of Chopin feel a little ear-direct and rock (mars volta, deloused) is worse. I hope I am explaining what I mean, but basically the landscape of the sound isn't as vast as with other cans (and in-ears) and I am aware that much of the sound is 'at the ear' coming in, rather than joining the landscape and the space doesn't feel deep. The end result is that awareness of the sound's source (the cans) is quite prominent meaning plenty of ... "oh, that flute is right by my ear ..." moments which prevent drifting off into the detail.
 
Centered vocals and such are not so ear prominent, but they seem a little 'right in front' of you. (difficult to explain) Having read around (here and via google), I get the impression an amp/dac may help? But I am wholly lost when it comes to things like that. I just know the sound I like, just not how to get the best from these cans. Ideally recommendations for PC as most of my music is lossless files. Was thinking about a USB DAC/tube combo ... but no idea if that is right.
 
Looking around forums, it seems people find the soundstage of the 650 decent, so I suspect it is the fact they are getting slammed right into on-board bog-standard intel sound.
 
Anyway, if it turns out this is directly a characteristic of the headphones, then I would still be very, very, very happy with the upgrade. Just looking to get the best from them for as little cash as possible!
 
Recommendations? All in the mind?
 
Thanks

 

[sugarkang]

An amp will not significantly change the way your headphones sound.
The most significant change would come from using different headphones altogether.
 
A typical amp will provide mostly power, even if members give you the impression that they change the sound.
So, if the problem is with a flute that is right next to your ear and you don't like that...
the problem is that the sound engineer/mixer of the recording made the flutes up close.
Your headphones are not broken.
 
You might find another headphone to make the flute sound "farther away" but that still doesn't mean that the HD650 is broken.
If you are not happy with the way your phones sound now at least 80%, you will never be happy with them.
 
The amp will get you power aka ability to get to loud volumes without distortion.  
Some people use amps to change the original sound, but this won't be drastic in any case. 
That's why I say you need to like your headphones at least 80%.

 

[jasonb]

an amp definitely can improve soundstage. in some cases going from one amp to another may not, but some do have better separation and a better soundstage. Crossfeed can also help tremendously with soundstage. Have you ever tried crossfeed? 
 
i myself find the HD650's to sound pretty darn wide, but they don't have a ton of depth, i'm not sure any headphone really can add a lot of depth to the soundstage. maybe a headphone with angled drivers would help this.

 

[Digital-Pride]

The HD650 should have a nice large soundstage, so it's interesting that you don't in your case.  The HD650 are headphones that scale very well, meaning the better the audio source the better the sound you get.  In your case, you'll most definitely improve your HD650's sound quailty with a DAC and a quality amp, especially if you been using the HD650s unamped straight from you PC.  Also i don't think a tube amp would the most ideal amp for the HD650s as tube amps generally have a warm slightly laid sound signature.  The HD650's already have a dark, laid back signature, so it my not match well with a tube amp.

 

[volted]

Thanks for all the feedback so far. Thanks Digital-pride, having read around I agree.
 
Don't get me wrong, the 650s are amazing; the tone of some tracks struck me as something inherently odd rather being just the tone of the headphones.
 
Having invested the day in listening to alot of tracks, I suspect the problem is that it is plugged directly into the PC. This was concluded as (on Linux anyway) Pulseaudio has multiple far too many overlapping volume controls. Managed to set all the volume levels to 40% system wide (every volume it knows about) and that helped considerably though now a bit below my normal listening level.
 
Some of the mids sounded too harsh, which was interfering with the overall feel. Being new headphones, and my ears not used to changing that often, wasn't sure if it was the phones/me/equipment. Low volume, spacey tracks feel fine and wide (Lossless Aphex Twin Ambient Works, Mogwai), but anything with loud upper-mids (Certain solo piano), or twiddley guitar (Frances the Mute/Amputechture) has a harshness not matched by the rest of the sound and texture.
 
Considering going with an E7+E9 Combo, or possibly the E7 alone to take my sound card out of the picture (Nvidia MCP51 HD). More listening and breaking (myself) in I think.
 
Thanks again

 

[volted]

Thanks Sugarkang,
 
I agree with you 100%, and I am 95% happy. I know the mix of the tracks that caused a problem well, and they don't have an intentional closeness and the problem sat with high volume mids.
 
I don't want to exaggerate any small issue I am having It's minor and I am fairly sure the problem doesn't lie with the headphones.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

An amp will not significantly change the way your headphones sound.
The most significant change would come from using different headphones altogether.
 

 
Hmmm, totally agree. I'm just surprised that this post has been up so long and sugarkang has not been flamed yet, considering he's just challenged one of the most entrenched received wisdoms on this forum; one on which, in fact, an associated forum is totally based. I've listened to dozens if not hundreds of amps, be it dedicated HP amps, integrated amps and receivers, even HP outlets on CD players etc, and the thing that's struck me most is how little difference there is between them--even between, say, a Little Dot MkV and the HP jack on my Sony (full size) Minidisc player. No doubt this will ruffle the feathers sugarkang missed, but too bad. Either my ears are completely shot, which is possible, or amps do not determine sound quality anywhere near as much as is suggested here, and there's not a need to spend as much as is suggested here. 
 
Flame suit donned.     

 

[volted]

Either way, I am sure it is something up with the sound settings on my machine rather than the headphones. I have all volumes at 50% with 1-5% registering on the output levels and some
other oddness (massive volume 'blip' between streams hitting PA Server). At those mis-matched volume/output the sound is corrected but quiet.
 
Question averted, problem pin-pointed, no need for anyone to start a ruckus! Thanks for the advice pp312. Aside from the problem described (which I am en-route to fixing, possibly, with some software tweaks) I just want to get the best from the gear without spending a year with listening only to discover a DAC/DAC&Amp would have made a good deal of difference. Even if it didn't, I am more than content as is.

 

[disastermouse]

How much do you want to spend?

E7/E9 works well for me, but I've not heard any other DAC/Amp and the only other amp I ever heard was a tiny portable homemade cmoy. A narrow soundstage is exactly NOT what I experience with the HD 650.

 

[sugarkang]

If you don't believe the amp hype, you can buy a 4-Channel amp on Amazon for $50 by ART.
If you're scared, you can wait for me to get it on Friday and will write something about it. 
 
It's frickin ugly, but from the comments, it looks like it packs plenty of power, low noise, clean.
Been thinking of DIYing a slick case and putting all the innards into it.
Probably not though since school starts Monday.
 
If you want a pretty amp, you could get an E9 by itself, as long as your source isn't noisy. 
No reason to buy the E7 unless you need the DAC, need portability, want bass boost .

 

[pp312]

What a let down! And here I had all my rebuttals already written in anticipation.   

 
Quote:

 
Question averted, problem pin-pointed, no need for anyone to start a ruckus!  

 

[volted]

Thanks for the advice sugarkang. Will have a peek at the review.
 
Quote:

If you don't believe the amp hype, you can buy a 4-Channel amp on Amazon for $50 by ART.
If you're scared, you can wait for me to get it on Friday and will write something about it. 
 
It's frickin ugly, but from the comments, it looks like it packs plenty of power, low noise, clean.
Been thinking of DIYing a slick case and putting all the innards into it.
Probably not though since school starts Monday.
 
If you want a pretty amp, you could get an E9 by itself, as long as your source isn't noisy. 
No reason to buy the E7 unless you need the DAC, need portability, want bass boost .

 

[volted]

Just after a solid price/performance tradeoff. I like the portability factor of the E7, it would be nice to have a consistent DAC wherever I am and on whatever machine im on.
Quote:

How much do you want to spend?

E7/E9 works well for me, but I've not heard any other DAC/Amp and the only other amp I ever heard was a tiny portable homemade cmoy. A narrow soundstage is exactly NOT what I experience with the HD 650.