[AzN1337c0d3r]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamerphile /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is however tons of best practices so I don't fully agree with you. I know several companies who do a lot to shield and separate the chips and that one of the reasons why B&O, Sennheiser etc. sounds so much nicer than your cheap stuff. Also one thing I've noticed Creative is particularly bad at - many companies simply just cut the cost where they think few will hear it. Ironically the extra cost isn't that big but when you arn't in a strong Hi-Fi company its very hard to explain marketing that you need to up the target unit price with say 0.30 USD just for a little extra in sound quality. Others budget with that in mind - simple reality. On the flip side small high-end companies don't have this problem as much since they usually don't have anyone telling them a unit price as long as its in the general area of the target.

It's targeting towards different markets. B&O and Sennheiser typically costs lots more Creative products. Big company have very strict targets because they have to stick to a strategy where their products don't compete with another product in their line, and yet at the same time collectively grab the biggest share of the pie.

Why add features or quality to your product when the cost of you doing so doesn't outweigh the amount of money you get back? Remember that these things take not only money, but time. It takes longer to correctly design these things. And when you're competing in a market, if your competitors manage to put the product out first, you almost always lose, unless your product is substantially different.

For headphones, there certainly is quite a noticeable difference (at least to me, and most other people that hear my headphones), but for stuff like cables. It is a pure electrical phenomena, where the effects are several orders of magnitude lower, most couldn't be able to tell the difference.

 

[mbd2884]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdub /img/forum/go_quote.gif I aggree with suntory times all the way. First a balanced setup is superior to a single ended cable and the jena labs cryo is one of the best wire you can get for warmth and detail IMO. ALO audio makes a nice cable, yet a bit pricey.

Whatever floats your boat, IMO, it's crazy and irrational. I went with aftermarket just because of it's construction, appearance and parts used. But no way am going to believe in marketing b.s from ALO or JenaLabs. Want warmth and detail? Buy a cable at a reasonable price and use that $300 saved for a new tube amp.

 

[mbd2884]

For new HD650 users, who are now interested in recabling now seeing a poll where 50% of the users have...

Keep this in mind. There are tons of people who have the skills and tools to make cables, not just MoonAudio, APureSound, Equinox Audio, SAA, ALO... and there are plenty of people who will charge 1/4 their labor price. Here is a breakdown in price for cable parts.

Cardas Connectors = $15
Furutech 1/4" Gold Pro = $14
25 Ft, makes 6 ft cable, UPOCC 22 AWG Cryo Treated Wires with Teflon (dielectric, shielding) = $47, with actual real certification also, not just I say so, believe me b.s. This is due to how the wire is made, certification it is ultra OFC and cryo treatment. Meaning there are far cheaper copper wires available, and no one has yet been able to hear a difference in a AB/X testing.
Nylon Multifilament 15 FT = $8
Shrink Tube 10 ft = $11

And this is for best copper cable possible, with best copper, for one cable. If you buy in bulk like cable builders do, it's even cheaper! If the cable maker bought snake oil expensive Jena wires, well that's their problem lols

Hang out in the DIY forum and know who else make cables (some will even help make you an amp!), who are the people willing to do some work and charge pretty much price for parts. Or learn yourself! It's cables, bunch of wires, it's not voodoo magic. Don't pay for voodoo magic!

 

[olblueyez]

My expectations were low when getting an aftermarket cable for the 650. My first venture was the Apure V3, it was effective at removing the veil but at the expense of the highs and lows and also the low mids suffered. The silver coated wire in the V3 gave the entire range a giant tip forward, the most notable change was the reduction of weight in the low mids. Impact was lacking and although the veil was missing, in general it did not sound natural nor did I feel it was an upgrade but merely a different set of problems as compared to the OEM cable.

Second cable was/is the Equinox by SAA and I have to say the results I got with this cable were nothing short of amazing. I am so glad I had a technical problem with the AP V3 cable as to give me the opportunity to reconsider and go with the Equinox. For me the short comings of the 650 with the stock cable are a slight lack of bass impact and a little too much bass weight, and also the mids are recessed in a way that causes vocals to be veiled and at first this can be enjoyable but after some time it gets to be annoying. I know it sounds like I am brain washed or shilling but either SAA got real lucky or they did a lot of homework because the Equinox cable eliminated all these problems without creating more problems in exchange. First the bloated flabby bass was exchanged for less bass weight and MORE bass impact. Second the Equinox brought the section of the mids where most vocals reside and made that more forward, all but eliminating the veil. It is still a very smooth and laid back headphone but without the frustrating limitations caused by the OEM cable. I firmly believe everyone should install an Equinox before tunning a system around this headphone/cable combination because it will affect what IC's and or Tubes you will want to settle on for the long haul. I also want to add that the V3 has different connectors than the Equinox and (For Me) they were inferior to the units used on the Equinox. They were the source of the problem I was having and I am sure it doesn't happen a lot (since I have never read another report of such a problem) but the Fit and install pressure on the Equinox connectors was far superior. Try it, its worth it, and they will take it back if you don't like it. Definitely a good (maybe even the best) place to start.

 

[indikator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by obobskivich /img/forum/go_quote.gif that debunks any potential of people being "genetically predispositioned audiophiles" (and I wouldn't buy into a theory that states some people are born better capable of hearing their systems ), because it isn't like color-blindness, or any other meterable predisposition (for example theres types of colorblindness, not "everyone for themselves")

I've ever heard about persons who can differentiate subtleties in taste and analyze food composition from the taste,
and I know can't do that,

also honestly my hi-fi venture all along is not really satisfiable as if I compare big bucks rig with my cheapo stuff difference is not night and day, so one can say my hearing is not golden one indeed

perhaps hearing or sensory in general is indeed different for each person, but some says it can be trained


ps. I ever had an SAA Equinox and I can't hear any difference!!!

 

[mbd2884]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif My expectations were low when getting an aftermarket cable for the 650. My first venture was the Apure V3, it was effective at removing the veil but at the expense of the highs and lows and also the low mids suffered. The silver coated wire in the V3 gave the entire range a giant tip forward, the most notable change was the reduction of weight in the low mids. Impact was lacking and although the veil was missing, in general it did not sound natural nor did I feel it was an upgrade but merely a different set of problems as compared to the OEM cable. Second cable was/is the Equinox by SAA and I have to say the results I got with this cable were nothing short of amazing. I am so glad I had a technical problem with the AP V3 cable as to give me the opportunity to reconsider and go with the Equinox. For me the short comings of the 650 with the stock cable are a slight lack of bass impact and a little too much bass weight, and also the mids are recessed in a way that causes vocals to be veiled and at first this can be enjoyable but after some time it gets to be annoying. I know it sounds like I am brain washed or shilling but either SAA got real lucky or they did a lot of homework because the Equinox cable eliminated all these problems without creating more problems in exchange. First the bloated flabby bass was exchanged for less bass weight and MORE bass impact. Second the Equinox brought the section of the mids where most vocals reside and made that more forward, all but eliminating the veil. It is still a very smooth and laid back headphone but without the frustrating limitations caused by the OEM cable. I firmly believe everyone should install an Equinox before tunning a system around this headphone/cable combination because it will affect what IC's and or Tubes you will want to settle on for the long haul. I also want to add that the V3 has different connectors than the Equinox and (For Me) they were inferior to the units used on the Equinox. They were the source of the problem I was having and I am sure it doesn't happen a lot (since I have never read another report of such a problem) but the Fit and install pressure on the Equinox connectors was far superior. Try it, its worth it, and they will take it back if you don't like it. Definitely a good (maybe even the best) place to start.

Sometimes I think you work for SAA, seriously.

 

[lwd]

I used to have the Silver Dragon on my HD600s, but sold them after a while. Given the cost, the sonic improvement was negligible and whatever improvement there was, was cancelled out by the inconvenience of the thick, inflexible cable.

 

[Linchpin]

The main reason I got a Blue Dragon for my HD650 was because the stock cable was way too long for my needs and was a major tripping hazard. The actual improvement in sound was very minimal to my ears.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbd2884 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sometimes I think you work for SAA, seriously.

Sometimes I think you work for whoever is the cheapest solution, seriously, why do you spew your garbage here on a site dedicated to Audiophiles? You seem to think everything beyond your budget is a complete waste of money and has no benefit, so why even come here? Do you get a thrill out of passing on bad advice? Or maybe it is your desperate need to feel superior by dismissing everyones EXPERIENCE with your sniveling about what everything costs and attempting to cast doubt on everyone who spends more money than you and treating these people like idiots for buying what you consider snake oil, when did you become the expert on snake oil? What you know about cables would fit in a thimble. Grow up.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lwd /img/forum/go_quote.gif I used to have the Silver Dragon on my HD600s, but sold them after a while. Given the cost, the sonic improvement was negligible and whatever improvement there was, was cancelled out by the inconvenience of the thick, inflexible cable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linchpin /img/forum/go_quote.gif The main reason I got a Blue Dragon for my HD650 was because the stock cable was way too long for my needs and was a major tripping hazard. The actual improvement in sound was very minimal to my ears.

What systems were you using to evaluate these cables?

 

[mbd2884]

They can't afford to hear the difference!!! lols

Audiophile has nothing to do with buying snake oil.

As far as I can tell, explaining to new HD650 users interested in recabling, explaining how cheap it is to to make a cable using premium components is far more helpful than telling them to buy cables with Voodoo magic that increases bass impact.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbd2884 /img/forum/go_quote.gif They can't afford to hear the difference!!! lols Audiophile has nothing to do with buying snake oil.

You are correct. And it has nothing to do with being cheap and ignorant.

Audiophile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

High-end audio refers to expensive, high-quality, or esoteric products and practices used in the reproduction of music.

 

[mbd2884]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif You are correct. And it has nothing to do with being cheap and ignorant.

And paying for something with disgustingly inflated prices for what could be made for less, and same quality parts and labor is just stupid. Nothing to do with being cheap or ignorant.

Has SAA contacted you to lead their marketing department?

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbd2884 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Has SAA contacted you to lead their marketing department?

No, has Kmart contacted you about theirs?

 

[mbd2884]

I think you should apply for an MoT, as it really does seem apparent to me you work for them.